Bowers & Wilkins PX7 noise-cancelling over ear headphones
Nov 25, 2019 at 2:27 PM Post #991 of 2,191
Picked up a pair of the Dali IO-6s just to see what all the fuss is about. Will post some comparison thoughts later this week after I've had some time with them, but off cuff:

The Dalis are really well designed, these are solid headphones. But I think they are not as comfortable as the PX7. The clamping force (at least for my large head) is less of a burden over time than the PX7, but the PX7s ear cups -- to me -- are the best I've come across. The IO-6 ear pads are not uncomfortable, but the circle approach is unfortunate and I imagine I am not the only one who doesn't get complete coverage of the ear. The PX7 covers my ears perfectly, and they have the depth so that I get a nice sensation of nothing when my ears are in the cups. The IO-6 cups are not as deep as the PX7's, and I don't think they are deep enough. This, more than anything else, makes it inevitable I return the IO-6s and stick with the PX7s.

There are other things, however.

The PX7, as a complete package, is probably the best designed ANC Bluetooth headphone on the market. Great features, top level ANC, useful app that makes it super easy to manage multi-point connections. The voice quality is hit or miss, but thats really the only feature that doesn't work as advertised that I can think of. The IO-6 is more basic: no app, no multi-point. I have found this disappointing, I've really come to appreciate these bells and whistles B&W built into the PX7.

Off-the-cuff sound comparisons: What can I say? These headphones embody completely different philosophies to headphone tuning. I personally prefer the B&W approach, to me the PX7s simply sound more realistic in the sense that they are a great simulation of what its like to listen to a solid stereo setup in a well laid out room. This is what B&W has always said it going for in its headphones, and I think with the PX7 they really nailed it. The Dalis, however, are very crisp and clear, but the bass is just too flat. I recognize this is the general "audiophile" tuning that is so popular on this forum, but its just not as immersive or enjoyable than more colored responses -- such as that used by B&W in the PX7.

I'm gonna let these Dalis burn in a bit, and test them out over a few listening sessions. They are certainly lovely sounding headphones but the bass really is lacking and the ear cup shape/depth isn't ideal and isn't going to work for me long-term I think -- I don't get these sense these make a good enough seal for effective ANC, idk, I'm just not convinced these are effective noise cancellers. Overall, I think its safe to say they are *not* categorically "better" than the PX7s, as you will see many asserting. If you think you are someone who might be into the B&W signature sound (which I think is more realistic and enjoyable), you should give them a listen before writing them off. You may find yourself disappointed in the Dalis.

Also, the PX7 just has a crazy great soundstage. Makes gaming (wired) and movies way more fun than the Dalis.
 
Nov 25, 2019 at 3:09 PM Post #992 of 2,191
Anyone noticing how sibilant these are? Quite jarring, even when listening to just speech.

It’s something I haven’t felt since using various Audio-Technica headphones years ago, where it was to be expected.

Comparison with IO6 and M3 to follow.

Mostly what I have found is that the sibilants is very codec dependent. By doing a sine sweep with a tone generator I could hear noise in certain high frequencies which were causing me quite a lot of listening fatique. When connected to my laptop by bluetooth this noise was in nearly all frequencies above 11khz but on my phone with aptx it only occurs for a few frequencies peaks. When testing wired all this noise disappears and the listening experience is much smoother, I'm assuming with Aptx HD the noise would also disappear but unfortunately my phone doesn't support it.

All in all this noise seem to be artifacts from the compression and I'm assuming the weirdness in the treble that rtings.com found was due to using a lower bitrate codec than AptxHD. Could anyone else check if they see the same noise appear if they do a sine wave sweep via this website: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ .
 
Nov 25, 2019 at 9:57 PM Post #993 of 2,191
The clicking noise is the current deal breaker for me (on the left side). The strange thing is that it begins after 15-30 of listening/being powered on.
I'm going back to the Sevenoaks where I bought mine tomorrow and try to see if I can return (unlikely since it's been more than 30 days) and if I can't, return it through my Amex buyer protection.

To a lesser degree, I'm also annoyed by the wind noises being picked up by the ANC.

It was released in my country 2 days ago, I supposed to be happy until I found I had the same clicking noise when I press the left can, sometimes move my head left and right or walking up the stairs will trigger this clicking sound. It wasn't that noticeable if I don't do any drastic move. I am thinking a way if this can be fixed or returning it and exchange another (not worth the trouble since this may not solve it with another pair)
 
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Nov 26, 2019 at 4:52 AM Post #994 of 2,191
I finally found a video review of the headphones that shows them a bit better. Maybe it is also interesting for one of you:


Good review!! Thanks for sharing.
The Sony WH-1000xm3, and the Bose QC35ii are commented on to be better noice cancelling, and the QC35ii is the most comfortable headphone to wear.
Also mentioned in the comparison review on Amazon, whilst the other reviews mention they are still not the most comfortable headsets after 30 mins use...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowers-Wilkins-Wireless-Headphones-Cancellation-Space-Grey/dp/B07WK5XT8T/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=86363528388&gclid=Cj0KCQiAt_PuBRDcARIsAMNlBdptWkmT9Z64tbdQK_4joxd-dAyrI5jaBLEcHamrTUUrPEeB4GCVwHIaAnHoEALw_wcB&hvadid=381591513060&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9046110&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14555656227637005683&hvtargid=kwd-828739434211&hydadcr=28145_1724733&keywords=px7+bowers&qid=1574760887&sr=8-1&th=1

I am torn between the PX7 and the Bose...
This is a good review comparison, of the BWPX7 vs Bose 700:


In the Black Friday sales, the Bose QC35ii is £249, so £100 cheaper... hmmmm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bose-Quiet...c35&qid=1574762010&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&sr=8-3
 
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Nov 26, 2019 at 5:02 AM Post #995 of 2,191
Good review!! Thanks for sharing.
The Sony WH-1000xm3, and the Bose QC35ii are commented on to be better noice cancelling, and the QC35ii is the most comfortable headphone to wear.
Also mentioned in the comparison review on Amazon, whilst the other reviews mention they are still not the most comfortable headsets after 30 mins use...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowers-Wilkins-Wireless-Headphones-Cancellation-Space-Grey/dp/B07WK5XT8T/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=86363528388&gclid=Cj0KCQiAt_PuBRDcARIsAMNlBdptWkmT9Z64tbdQK_4joxd-dAyrI5jaBLEcHamrTUUrPEeB4GCVwHIaAnHoEALw_wcB&hvadid=381591513060&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9046110&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14555656227637005683&hvtargid=kwd-828739434211&hydadcr=28145_1724733&keywords=px7+bowers&qid=1574760887&sr=8-1&th=1

I am torn between the PX7 and the Bose...
This is a good review comparison, of the BWPX7 vs Bose 700:


In the Black Friday sales, the Bose QC35ii is £249, so £100 cheaper... hmmmm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bose-Quiet...c35&qid=1574762010&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&sr=8-3

It’s obviously very subjective but the PX7 and anything from Bose are very different beasts indeed. Completely different sound signatures and tuning goals by their engineers.
For Bose it’s always noise cancelling (and calling with the 700) over out and out sound quality, but for B&W the sound is always prioritised over everything else. Sure the PX7 possibly has questionable mic quality but I don’t think B&W are too concerned - it just isn’t their priority.
If you like the PX7 signature you’ll almost certainly hate the QC35 or NC700 and vice versa.
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 5:04 AM Post #996 of 2,191
Sent them back today. My take of 40 hours back to back with the PX is that they are good ANC traveling cans but for indoor use the signature is not to my taste. @Asspirin has mentioned many times that ANC cans are tuned for outdoor environment scenarios. Even then I found the PX7 to be extremely hit and miss.

@Tenlow put it best regarding the PX ... The worst, best sounding, ANC headphone
You can always turn the ANC off on the PX7 by holding the switch. How do they sound then?
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 5:30 AM Post #997 of 2,191
This is a good review of the XM3 vs Bose QC35ii:


I'd probably like microphone quality, as would change habit and make more phone calls with a headset on (for work purposes, sales etc), so the Sony could be better for this than the B&W-PX7.

One drawback on the Sony XM3 seems that only one BT device can be active at any one time. All other headphones support twin BT mode.
Yes, 8 BT devices can be paired with the Sony, but only one is active, which is not as user friendly as the others. Having the feature to be actve with a laptop/PC, and the phone is important.
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 8:39 AM Post #998 of 2,191
To get one thing out of the way: There is not one Bluetooth headphone with good microphone quality. Not one. No sane business person would use their Headphone for telephone calls, at least not for business calls. Having a clear and understandable voice is a priority when dealing with clients or customers. Being able to take calls with your headphone is to be considered an emergency solution for urgent/private calls. But even for those I usually deactivate my BT and use the phone itself to take the call.
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 8:42 AM Post #999 of 2,191
To get one thing out of the way: There is not one Bluetooth headphone with good microphone quality. Not one. No sane business person would use their Headphone for telephone calls, at least not for business calls. Having a clear and understandable voice is a priority when dealing with clients or customers. Being able to take calls with your headphone is to be considered an emergency solution for urgent/private calls. But even for those I usually deactivate my BT and use the phone itself to take the call.
Hmm, I heard that the Bose 700s have world class mic technology. Not sure I would go with the "not one good" statement. I don't own them (I care too much about sound quality) but all reviews said they nailed it on the mics.
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 9:18 AM Post #1,000 of 2,191
To get one thing out of the way: There is not one Bluetooth headphone with good microphone quality. Not one. No sane business person would use their Headphone for telephone calls, at least not for business calls. Having a clear and understandable voice is a priority when dealing with clients or customers. Being able to take calls with your headphone is to be considered an emergency solution for urgent/private calls. But even for those I usually deactivate my BT and use the phone itself to take the call.
Rather presumptuous! Especially given the number of AirPods you see about in use for calls - which by the way have a pretty damn good mic (especially the pro).
If you spend all day on the phone at a desk then I’m sure a dedicated voice headset is more appropriate but that just isn’t how a lot of people generally work these days in my experience.

edit: that said I’d not consider using something like the PX7 for calls myself but that’s got nothing to do with mic quality and everything to do with a personal preference for either holding the phone or using AirPods.
 
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Nov 26, 2019 at 10:50 AM Post #1,001 of 2,191
Nov 26, 2019 at 11:11 AM Post #1,002 of 2,191
B&W PX7 have an issue with sound degradation with ANC on max. Have you experienced this?


THE GAMING AUDIOPHILE
10/15/19 It has come to my attention that the PX7 does suffer from sound degradation when the ANC is activated on max. It’s still not as bad as the sound quality hit the PX faces when max ANC is engaged but it’s still a problem nonetheless. Compared to ANC turned off, the sound signature of the PX7 gets a bit warmer sounding and closed in. I can deal with that a bit. However, the big issue I have is at higher volumes there is some sort of dynamic range or volume limiter in effect that hurts some of the fidelity in the music. It happens at all volumes, but it’s more apparent at higher volumes. For example, when I’m listening at a volume level where I want to feel immersed into the music and rock out, the volume on certain frequencies in the music raises and lowers as to not distort the speaker. When I turn off the ANC, this phenomenon doesn’t occur which leads me to believe B&W implemented this to purposely restrain your music from distorting the speaker whilst ANC is active. This doesn’t happen with my Sony WH1000XM3 or Sennheiser Momentum 3 Wireless when they both have their ANC on max. In terms of sound, the PX7 is now behind both the Momentum’s and Sony’s for me now as a result of this.
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 11:45 AM Post #1,003 of 2,191
For those in the US, B&H just dropped the price on PX7 by $50. May help someone who's been on the fence :)
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 11:50 AM Post #1,004 of 2,191
For those in the US, B&H just dropped the price on PX7 by $50. May help someone who's been on the fence :)
Yeah, I noticed. Amazon has both colors for $348 + tax currently.
After reading this thread, these went from a must buy to hold off. I'm sticking with my P7W+QC35 combo. I wanted a P7W replacement and instead they focused on the PX, which I can't blame them.
 
Nov 26, 2019 at 11:56 AM Post #1,005 of 2,191
It's already been discussed. There's no audible deference in any volume on my PX7 or my ears/brain can't recognise it.
B&W PX7 have an issue with sound degradation with ANC on max. Have you experienced this?


THE GAMING AUDIOPHILE
10/15/19 It has come to my attention that the PX7 does suffer from sound degradation when the ANC is activated on max. It’s still not as bad as the sound quality hit the PX faces when max ANC is engaged but it’s still a problem nonetheless. Compared to ANC turned off, the sound signature of the PX7 gets a bit warmer sounding and closed in. I can deal with that a bit. However, the big issue I have is at higher volumes there is some sort of dynamic range or volume limiter in effect that hurts some of the fidelity in the music. It happens at all volumes, but it’s more apparent at higher volumes. For example, when I’m listening at a volume level where I want to feel immersed into the music and rock out, the volume on certain frequencies in the music raises and lowers as to not distort the speaker. When I turn off the ANC, this phenomenon doesn’t occur which leads me to believe B&W implemented this to purposely restrain your music from distorting the speaker whilst ANC is active. This doesn’t happen with my Sony WH1000XM3 or Sennheiser Momentum 3 Wireless when they both have their ANC on max. In terms of sound, the PX7 is now behind both the Momentum’s and Sony’s for me now as a result of this.
 

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