Bottlehead Amplifier Discussion / Comparison Thread: Crack, SEX & Mainline
Apr 23, 2015 at 12:31 PM Post #1,141 of 2,108
 
I'm torn on which to with here:
 
  1. Auricap 10uF / 400VDC XO Series, Metalized Polypropylene 
  2. Jupiter 10uf / 300VDC, HT Series, Alum Foil & Paper Beeswax
  3. Mundorf Mcaps
  4. Clarity
 
 
The Jupiters seems like an interesting place to go, but the XO Auricaps have been reviewed by some to trump them. And Mundorf is just Mundorf.  Everyone has their preference I guess... *sigh*  Should I just add two more to the list and roll a die? *lol*

 
I'm sure you've seen sites such as these:
http://www.laventure.net/tourist/caps.htm
http://www.head-fi.org/t/284863/orgy-of-capacitors-the-cap-thread
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 I would say that it all depends on how much $ you have to plunk down on the caps. If you have a big wad of cash you'd like to throw down, I would highly recommend (from experience) the Mundorf Supreme Silver-In-Oil, they give all the resolution, plus an amazing "silkiness" to the tonal character.
 
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 2:17 PM Post #1,142 of 2,108
 
MUNDORF-71366
 
 
10µF / 1000V, M-CAP® Supreme Silver / Gold & Oil,  45mm W x 106mm L, Each

$277.54 pcX USD Price 

Ouch.... but they can charge what they want I guess. They got 'em and I don't. 
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Apr 23, 2015 at 3:38 PM Post #1,143 of 2,108

MUNDORF-70293

  
10µF / 1000V, M-CAP® Supreme Silver & Oil,  46mm W x 110mm L, Each


$208.12 pcX USD Price 

I was thinking those one's moreso, but ya, still a hard pill to swallow.
 
I'd probably go with the Auricap XO if you want to upgrade on the cheap
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 3:44 PM Post #1,145 of 2,108
I would not characterize the 6C45pi as "cheap Russian glass", anymore than I would characterize Rachmaninoff as some piano player who wrote a few tunes. The closest tube you are going to find electrically is the WE437A.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 5:32 PM Post #1,146 of 2,108
I've never been sure about the Clarity caps, some say they have a slightly dark presentation to them.  I have them in my Quickie based amp and its always been on the back of my mind that it would be better off with something else.
 
I can highly recommend the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps, use those in my S.E.X. amp and a few others. The Jupiters are a step above the Mundorfs, have a set of those in my S.E.X. amp and preamp but they are another step up in terms of cost too.
 
I wouldn't fancy having to buy any of the above in a 10uf capacity, eek!
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 6:07 PM Post #1,147 of 2,108
 
Should I just add two more to the list and roll a die? *lol*

 
You just need a 4 sided die from the table top rpg days!  In all candor though, I wouldn't say there is any reason to rush to upgrade your output caps.  The stock build is indeed sublime, particularly with hd800's.  
 
Without being able to compare my mainline, with RTI's (now probably burned in), to a stock build, side by side, I am not entirely confident that I would be able to clearly tell the difference between the two, much less conclude that the fancy teflon caps necessarily make the amp sound better than ordinary well made film caps.  
 
My reasoning in picking up the RTI's was mainly because I thought it was cool to be able to incorporate a boutique teflon cap made for ARC but apparently rejected because the physical size was off.  As I understand it, the closest production 10uf teflon cap (also made by RTI), are V-caps, which run $700 a pop.  So these seemed like a deal....sorta.  Maybe they do sound better, and maybe it is all just in my head.  The amp was so damn good to begin with, it is really hard to know.    
 
  I would not characterize the 6C45pi as "cheap Russian glass", anymore than I would characterize Rachmaninoff as some piano player who wrote a few tunes. The closest tube you are going to find electrically is the WE437A.

 
Classic!  Yeah - from everything I have read, I understand they are wonderful tubes but difficult to implement.  Seems like you guys nailed it, and I am indeed thankful to be able to buy a small reserve at a modest $15 each and never have to think about/be tempted by rolling.  
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 6:30 PM Post #1,148 of 2,108
  I would not characterize the 6C45pi as "cheap Russian glass", anymore than I would characterize Rachmaninoff as some piano player who wrote a few tunes. The closest tube you are going to find electrically is the WE437A.

 
Well no.  There's good Russian glass and poor Russian glass.  Previously even some of the best I've heard still had some of the characterization that I personally found so oddly un-palatable. An odd oily quality that could be akin to handling styrofoam or perhaps like nails on a chalkboard to some. Not that it sounded like that, just a way to describe how difficult it was for me to listen.
 
According to Bob's tube shootout ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes#post_11464856 )  some Russian 6922 equivalents come out pretty strong against historically accepted titans of the 6922 world. A point he has beat to death.  Shortly after his post above, a conclusion we came to in the Lyr Tube rolling thread is that around %50 of people either prefer the Siemens CCa or the good Russian 70's era as their top picks. Oddly, those who did make those decisions after hearing both felt strongly for one over the other as their own first pick. Of course, that poll was not over a very large group. :)  People are wired differently. *shrug* I suppose that's a good thing. 
 
The 1963 Siemens CCa glass tested in that review happened to be my own pair that I just let go (much to my chagrin) in order to pave the way for my Mainline purchase. I also still have a pair of the '75's which Rob reviews as #1. But then again, that's his preference and that's what he sold to me based on that. I gave it an honest go, but unfortunately I just couldn't grok it.
 
I guess the point I'm really after is that there are a whole heck of a pile of Russian 6N23Ps from the 80's and 90s that are IMHO just complete ****. I am pleasantly surprised that the 6C45Pi is NOT in the category at all. Its a totally different animal.  In fact, in the Mainline, I feel the 6C45pi stomp the "Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields" as they stand implemented in the Leer.
 
I am in fact kind of happy I can't roll tubes in the Mainline. Nor does it sound like it needs too.  That alone is guaranteed to save me at least a foolish $1K over the next few years. 
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I'm really impressed, and I don't say that lightly. I'm not one to give away my stars. On my scale there is no 10, but the stock Mainline so far to my ear is pulling a solid 9.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 7:52 PM Post #1,149 of 2,108
Glad you're enjoying it. I have a little more personal investment in that design than most, as it is more or less the practical version of a full stops statement amp I built about a dozen years ago. It was fun to combine what we learned from doing that project with what we have learned since then.
We're doing the statement amp thing again with a very different design, and hoping to have it ready to show this weekend at the Head Fi meet here. Maybe it will include some ideas that get incorporated into future kits too.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 10:33 PM Post #1,150 of 2,108
  Glad you're enjoying it. I have a little more personal investment in that design than most, as it is more or less the practical version of a full stops statement amp I built about a dozen years ago. It was fun to combine what we learned from doing that project with what we have learned since then.
We're doing the statement amp thing again with a very different design, and hoping to have it ready to show this weekend at the Head Fi meet here. Maybe it will include some ideas that get incorporated into future kits too.


Very nice! I new 2a3 amp, and now another headphone amp for me to salivate over. Are you going to release more info on the site after the meet?
  I am in fact kind of happy I can't roll tubes in the Mainline. Nor does it sound like it needs too.  That alone is guaranteed to save me at least a foolish $1K over the next few years. 
biggrin.gif
 
I'm really impressed, and I don't say that lightly. I'm not one to give away my stars. On my scale there is no 10, but the stock Mainline so far to my ear is pulling a solid 9.

That's my big problem with my mainline right now, it's close to stock and it sounds really good. I just have that urge to find some upgrades to make to try to close the gap a little bit more. Thinking about some bypass caps, but I'm not sure if it would be a good investment. I should have majored in CE or EE instead of CS...
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 10:51 PM Post #1,151 of 2,108
 
Very nice! I new 2a3 amp, and now another headphone amp for me to salivate over. Are you going to release more info on the site after the meet?
That's my big problem with my mainline right now, it's close to stock and it sounds really good. I just have that urge to find some upgrades to make to try to close the gap a little bit more. Thinking about some bypass caps, but I'm not sure if it would be a good investment. I should have majored in CE or EE instead of CS...

 
http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_applications.html
 
See the note on bypassing. Doesn't mean its right, but... 
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 11:20 PM Post #1,152 of 2,108
   
http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_applications.html
 
See the note on bypassing. Doesn't mean its right, but... 


I figured as much (at least some stuff from high school electronics suggested it would be a bad idea), but I didn't know if there was any place in the power subsystem that would be worthwhile. I've seen a lot of posts/articles that mentioned bypass caps in places outside of signal chains, I just don't have enough knowledge to work out what to do myself. If there's no good place because of the design of for space reasons, that just means that the upgrade funds will go towards other things.
 
Apr 24, 2015 at 1:10 AM Post #1,153 of 2,108
 
Very nice! I new 2a3 amp, and now another headphone amp for me to salivate over. Are you going to release more info on the site after the meet?
That's my big problem with my mainline right now, it's close to stock and it sounds really good. I just have that urge to find some upgrades to make to try to close the gap a little bit more. Thinking about some bypass caps, but I'm not sure if it would be a good investment. I should have majored in CE or EE instead of CS...

 
An upgrade to the output caps is a nice option for a slight gain, but you might be hard-pressed to find anything else that will deliver a significant gain
 
Apr 24, 2015 at 1:43 AM Post #1,154 of 2,108
Yes, we will give the details of the new amp after the meet on Saturday. Or maybe during, depending upon who might be posting from the event. 
 

 

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