[manaox2]

Just because another company does it, doesn't make it right. I'm not saying that they should deliberately put themselves in the face of competition, I am saying that they are deliberately avoiding it. It obviously works, does that make it appreciateable from a customer standpoint? It seems some are on the company side looking in instead of thinking of the consumer.

Its a good ploy to make it seem as if there are no other headphones in the price range or anywhere near it to compare. IMO, if you have a good product, you put it EVERYWHERE you can, thats how I would market my headphones to earn the deserved reputation. Plus, BOSE looks trendy. It certainly shouldn't be worried in that department. A different display is different from targetting a completely different audience such as the ones at the mall and Target.

I bet that you wouldn't typically find too many porsche owners who would deny all attempts to test drive a ferrari at the track.

 

[lordmozilla]

question is really : why are you bothered?

if you think they suck don't buy them, end of story, if people like them then thats there opinions.

 

[terriblepaulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But that's just clever marketing, getting their product out in the market. what would you have them do, stand on a street corner shouting "roll up, roll up" in the UK, where i'm not aware of any Bose booths or specific Bose shops, a hi-fi shop has to sign up as distributors, and have an account. Now, from what i understand, Bose are quite aggresive with with their distributors. The few shops i do know that stocked Bose products, stopped because they just didn't like how Bose wanted to push the gear. but in an age where i get phone call after phone call at 8:00 at night from some person, whose first language isn't english, try to sell me accident insurance, that's just sales. Hard ruthless and very aggressive. i can't really take issue with how Bose push there stuff in the market, that's life i'm afraid. now if you deisgn and manufactured your own headphones, how would you get them out to market? for me other than starting my own website, maybe shoving them on ebay, maybe a bit of email marketing, i wouldn't have a clue. Bose have the clought to set up Bose specific shops, and booths, they've partnered with certain airline companies etc. is that wrong? it's like critizing costa coffee for partnering with sainsbury's so now (in the UK) you have a costa bolted on to most sainsbury's supermarket. is that to be critizied, or is it just good marketing? i don't see a porsche garage with a nice selection of ferraris to compare. a porsche garage is there to promote porsche. when i was selling diamond blade cutters (used for cuting tar mack) i never sent a selection of the competitions blades to try. I'm there to promote the brand i was promoting. why would i want to compare with another brand, when i just want to sell what i have. Now, i have to say i personally saw (no pun intended) for my own eyes and used the diamond blades which i was promoting, and they were far better than our nearest competition, and quite a bit more expensive! i don't see any headphone manufacturer purposely putting their product in the path of the competition, no one! i see hi-fi shops that have a number of products to bring you and me a selection of choices. I can't see the Sennheiser sales team getting excited because they saw a nicve selectionn of their products, with a nice selection Of grado's and AKG's. i can't hink a sales rep would say, "don't our headphones look nice next to the Grado and AKGs'" i should imagine Sennheiser would like their own display (which i seen in quite a few hi-fi shops) with a nice Sennheiser logo, and i should also imagine that senheiser would like a large chunk of the headphone display area for themslves. so according to some of your commnets, that would seem unfair, and so Sennheiser products would be low grade and not worth the money. ABSOLUTE PISH! anyway gotta dash.

Well said, but completely irrelevant.

I don't think anybody at head-fi doubts BOSE's marketing prowess or success as a business. The thing is we don't care. If you read the many BOSE bashing threads on head-fi, you will discover a consistent theme: people who have owned and tried BOSE products think they are a poor value in terms of sound quality for the dollar.

Your comments miss the entire point. People here don't criticize BOSE for being a succesful company. People here criticize BOSE for the being a succesful company that sells over-priced products. The fact that their success appears solely due to an omnipresent marketing campaign (as opposed to the quality of their products) is, IMO, the reason for the intensity of feeling on this forum.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But that's just clever marketing, getting their product out in the market. what would you have them do, stand on a street corner shouting "roll up, roll up" .... SNIP...... is that to be critizied, or is it just good marketing?

That is why people have coined, " Bose - better sound through marketting".

Quote:

i don't see a porsche garage with a nice selection of ferraris to compare. a porsche garage is there to promote porsche.

This is an invalid analogy. I can test drive both cars on the same road before purchase. Most audio gear can be auditioned in the same room at a hi-fi shop except Bose. No one is asking Bose to have competitors products at their retail locations. The problem is discussed below.


Quote:

i don't see any headphone manufacturer purposely putting their product in the path of the competition, no one! i see hi-fi shops that have a number of products to bring you and me a selection of choices. I can't see the Sennheiser sales team getting excited because they saw a nicve selectionn of their products, with a nice selection Of grado's and AKG's. i can't hink a sales rep would say, "don't our headphones look nice next to the Grado and AKGs'" i should imagine Sennheiser would like their own display (which i seen in quite a few hi-fi shops) with a nice Sennheiser logo, and i should also imagine that senheiser would like a large chunk of the headphone display area for themslves. so according to some of your commnets, that would seem unfair, and so Sennheiser products would be low grade and not worth the money.

The point is none of the other manufacturers actively discourage their products being displayed beside their competitors. Bose actively discourages and give incentives using their vast marketing budget to get exclusive display sections where no other competitors products are allowed.

Bose further goes on to sue people that review their products unfavorably and provide frequency response graphs that show the huge gaps in their lifestyle systems. I don't think Sennheiser, AKG, SONY, etc. or even skull candy do that. Such bully like behavior is what people have an objection to.

You still didn't answer my question. Is the Bose the headphone you pick up most to enjoy tunes? or did you buy the Bose OEs just to spite the Bose bashers?

 

[captian73]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just because another company does it, doesn't make it right. I'm not saying that they should deliberately put themselves in the face of competition, I am saying that they are deliberately avoiding it. It obviously works, does that make it appreciateable from a customer standpoint? It seems some are on the company side looking in instead of thinking of the consumer. Its a good ploy to make it seem as if there are no other headphones in the price range or anywhere near it to compare. IMO, if you have a good product, you put it EVERYWHERE you can, thats how I would market my headphones to earn the deserved reputation. Plus, BOSE looks trendy. It certainly shouldn't be worried in that department. A different display is different from targetting a completely different audience such as the ones at the mall and Target. I bet that you wouldn't typically find too many porsche owners who would deny all attempts to test drive a ferrari at the track.

but that's absolute bilge!

what, so mcdoanlds are avoiding buger king by not selling buger king burgers, so dominos are avoiding pizza hut by not selling pizza hut pizza's. it's absolute nonsense!

I think Bose have the rigth to pormote their products, in a way that makes them money. Bose and any another company aren't there to promote any other company, why would they?


now i read all your comments, but the opposite is true. how many magazines have i seen (and 1 i've signed upto) promoting free or a cheap pair of senn's.....loads, yet i don't see any of you moaning about that.

they sell over priced products??? for the sound. well, my answer to that is, my wife doesn't think the HD650's are worth £300. according to you guys, her point of view would be fact and a correct fact at that. it's absolute garbage.

why do ferrari sell cars at £100,000? a car 5 times more than a BMW 320i. is it five times faster? does the ferrari use 5 times more aluminium than the bmw? is the ferrari mpg 5 times better than the BMW?

your arguements simply don't stand up. Bose isn't worthe the money, once again but for some reason no one has yet to answer, why did 7 out of 7 people pick the bose over a brand and earphones that we at head-fi indentify as being far superior (5EB's). why?

now i heard all the, " they saw the name Bose" arguement, but onl;y 1 person knew about bose, so that arguement doesn't work. (remember i live in the UK)

i've tested them for many a month, i've yet to hear from any of you guys doing the same. so the "i tried" them arguement is out!

by the way when i first "tried" my stax sr-001's i hated them, and could have easliy sent them back to audiocubes.com. according to your arguements, after trying the stax for 5 minutes, they be cursed for all time as being bad, rubbish, over priced. come on!

so we've tackled marketing, and according to you guys, it's unethical and bose are purposefully hiding by not inviting everyone to try diferent headophones next to their own. i've yet to see any other headphones company doing that, but hey we won't worry about them 'cause we're bose bashing.

according to you guys it's acceptable for sennheiser to offer a free pair of headphones for a years subscription to stuff magazine, but when bose offers a pair of free headphones or free air miles, that's unethical. in my book that's called being hypicritical, but hey we'll damn Bose but let Sennheiser slide! what utter pigs garbage, and you guys know it! so marketing doesn't really stand up either.

so why doesn't someone please anwser the question

UE 5EB's

Bose

if some innocent person said which is better? we'd (including me before i owned a pair of UE's, and i have to add that in many ways the UE's are better, bar the aweful midrange) would have gone for UE's, however for some reason 7 out of 7 went for the Bose. why?

love to hear your comments, i sincerely ask for forgiveness if i've affended anyone, that's not my intention. but i love to hear/read your arguements. it's nice to be pasionate abotu the same subject, and nice to passionately disagree. what i guess i'm trying to say, is that for some reason me and bose click, i like them, and i hear what your saying, but it just doesn't make any sense, not because i like bose, but because arguements abuot how bose promote their stuff just doesn't make sense.

i put forth and hold to my strong point of view, and believe it or not, i do enjoy your comments. keep trying my fellow headphone enthusiasts, and you never know one day i might leave the dark side, but at the monment

 

[lordmozilla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif why do ferrari sell cars at £100,000? a car 5 times more than a BMW 320i. is it five times faster? does the ferrari use 5 times more aluminium than the bmw? is the ferrari mpg 5 times better than the BMW?

You realise that is so stupid ? bmw's are not fully aluminium bodie'd (well some may be but not the 320i), so the ferrari probably uses 5x more anyways due to the engine block being full aluminium and massive. Its not 5x faster but is the HD650 5x better than the HD201 ? probably not. But its still alot more expensive.

 

[manaox2]

Burger King and McDonalds (pizza hut serves pizza) are about equally priced. I guarantee that fast food places compare themselves in taste tastes all the time and are always trying to make their product better. Your kind of on to something when McDonald's puts there restaurant into a Walmart and has the menu on the checkout line. To me, BOSE is kind of like McDonald's doing that, then labeling their 99 cent hamburger as gourmet sirloin. They will even let you smell it in their kitchen area, and then they will charge you $6 for it. This probably isn't the best analogy, but why are we talking hamburger joints when this is a headphone company?


I am not saying that BOSE should not have the right. I am saying that I look down upon the way the perform. Everyone should be able to advertise and market their products. But there is a difference when they are charging a premium for less performance then their competitors, go as far to bully those who pose a threat, and then put up precautions to trying hiding the possibility.

The HD650 and the BOSE cost about the same for certain phones and thats fine if your wife doesn't like the sound of the HD650. Let me go behind my wall, hook it up to a $6000 studio headphone rig, and then play some binaural specially made recordings that highlight only its strongpoints. Lets do all of this in a Target while she shops for clothes and stuff for the family. Heck, I'll even hook that Target up to a mall. After she finishes her shopping, she can walk to the BOSE store at the other end so that she can compare to the QC3. Thats fair, right?

 

[Audiofiler]

yikes this thread is still going?? wow

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif but that's absolute bilge! what, so mcdoanlds are avoiding buger king by not selling buger king burgers, so dominos are avoiding pizza hut by not selling pizza hut pizza's. it's absolute nonsense!

Yes that is absolute nonsense. Nobody is asking Bose to stock other products in their retail outlets.


Quote:

I think Bose have the rigth to pormote their products, in a way that makes them money. Bose and any another company aren't there to promote any other company, why would they?

Yes! and that is the biggest complaint about Bose. Their prices reflect their marketing budget. That is why most people can find headphones and speakers that cost a fraction of a Bose product that actually perform better.



Quote:

they sell over priced products??? for the sound. well, my answer to that is, my wife doesn't think the HD650's are worth £300. according to you guys, her point of view would be fact and a correct fact at that. it's absolute garbage. why do ferrari sell cars at £100,000? a car 5 times more than a BMW 320i. is it five times faster? does the ferrari use 5 times more aluminium than the bmw? is the ferrari mpg 5 times better than the BMW?

There are very tangible reasons to explain why a Ferrari costs more than a 320i. First, Ferrari uses a lot of carbon fiber and weight saving materials which cost more than aluminium. The Ferrari has a lot more technology to keep the car perfoming at the limits than a BMW sedan all of which costs more to develop and make. A F430 does 0-60 in 3.5 secs the 320i in 9.0 seconds. It has a top speed of 196 mph where as a 320i has a 132mph limit. Around a track the ferrari will blitze a 320i. Lastly, a F430 will get you laid 5x faster than a 320i .

Like I said tangible differences.

I would like you to put your money where your mouth is and get me the frequency response. impedence and sensitivity values , the size of the driver, the type of magnet and diaphragm material for the Bose OE.


Quote:

your arguements simply don't stand up. Bose isn't worthe the money, once again but for some reason no one has yet to answer, why did 7 out of 7 people pick the bose over a brand and earphones that we at head-fi indentify as being far superior (5EB's). why?

For the last time apples and oranges.

Quote:

now i heard all the, " they saw the name Bose" arguement, but onl;y 1 person knew about bose, so that arguement doesn't work. (remember i live in the UK) i've tested them for many a month, i've yet to hear from any of you guys doing the same. so the "i tried" them arguement is out!

What about my point that one is an "ON EAR Phone" and the other an "IN EAR Phone"?
You have yet to provide a cogent argument to validate your hypothesis that you did a valid test.



Quote:

so we've tackled marketing, and according to you guys, it's unethical and bose are purposefully hiding by not inviting everyone to try diferent headophones next to their own. i've yet to see any other headphones company doing that, but hey we won't worry about them 'cause we're bose bashing.

No we haven't tackled marketing. Bose is purposefully setting up dedicated rooms where competitors can't display their goods. The electronics stores in my town have dedicated Bose rooms and another room dedicated to all the other brands. I can't compare a Bose system to an energy system etc.


Quote:

according to you guys it's acceptable for sennheiser to offer a free pair of headphones for a years subscription to stuff magazine, but when bose offers a pair of free headphones or free air miles, that's unethical. in my book that's called being hypicritical, but hey we'll damn Bose but let Sennheiser slide! what utter pigs garbage, and you guys know it! so marketing doesn't really stand up either.

The point of contention is the volume of marketing and the product quality at a given cost.

Here is a mathematical way to describe the argument. The formulas and values are only for illustration.
Bose is X + 4Y = Z dollars
Senns is X + Y = Z dollars
Where X is product cost. Y is marketing cost and Z is consumer price.

Lets take an example. take X is $40 and Y is $20

Bose 40 + 4 * 20 = $120
Senn is 40 + 20 = $60

What people are arguing here is that a Bose product that costs $120 would perform close to a $60 Senn product even though they cost the same to make.



Quote:

so why doesn't someone please anwser the question UE 5EB's Bose if some innocent person said which is better? we'd (including me before i owned a pair of UE's, and i have to add that in many ways the UE's are better, bar the aweful midrange) would have gone for UE's, however for some reason 7 out of 7 went for the Bose. why?

I have already answered it 3 times now. Your test is invalid. Do the test using two in ear or two on ear models.

Quote:

love to hear your comments, i sincerely ask for forgiveness if i've affended anyone, that's not my intention. but i love to hear/read your arguements. it's nice to be pasionate abotu the same subject, and nice to passionately disagree. what i guess i'm trying to say, is that for some reason me and bose click, i like them, and i hear what your saying, but it just doesn't make any sense, not because i like bose, but because arguements abuot how bose promote their stuff just doesn't make sense. i put forth and hold to my strong point of view, and believe it or not, i do enjoy your comments. keep trying my fellow headphone enthusiasts, and you never know one day i might leave the dark side, but at the monment

You love to hear them but you are not listening. To be honest I don't think anyone cares that you leave Bose. If you made an informed decision to buy Bose good for you. The problem others have is Bose makes it hard for others to make an informed decision with their marketing.

 

[ojnihs]

bashing bose is not some right of passage at this forum. it's old and boring. grow up.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojnihs /img/forum/go_quote.gif bashing bose is not some right of passage at this forum. it's old and boring. grow up.

At least we listened to them and made comparisons and logical arguments. I didn't join head-fi to Bash BOSE. I was sharing my experience.

Bashing BOSE the company IMO is much better then bashing those who don't care to upgrade the i-buds. At least the i-buds provide the value for the money.

I do not think I am bashing anyones "opinions" here as much as I am explaining what I have noticed as fact and possible flaws in their logic. I'm pretty certain that you have more posts bashing those who share continue to share their opinions of BOSE then I have bashing the products. No one should bash something without taking the time to try it first and actually listen. Many of us are not just agreeing for the sake of agreeing with the masses here, but I'll grant you that it does get old. I have a pet peeve of those standing up for BOSE and you have a pet peeve of those who bash them. Its ok, yet I don't consider this argument immature unless others make it that way.

 

[Assorted]

I agree, there's at least some moderation in this debate, instead of an all out Bose bashing.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree, there's at least some moderation in this debate, instead of an all out Bose bashing.

If only we could delete the first 10 posts, I'd probably recommend this thread to others who were new if I didn't think it would just start a new wave of random BOSE posts. I believe I'm done here, I think my goal was achieved on all levels.

 

[The D]

So all of the people who have had bose stuff and did not like it are wrong?
If a company makes rubbish they should get dragged in the mud for it, if no one did that there would only be bad products because companys would only make the worse crap they can because there would be no reason to make anything better.

Also captian73 it was not a blind test you did to your friends so it means nothing.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojnihs /img/forum/go_quote.gif bashing bose is not some right of passage at this forum. it's old and boring. grow up.

I am not sure if this was intended for me but I will respond anyway. I don't think I have bashed Bose, just tried to present the other side of the coin to Captain73.

I showed my disagreement to Captain73's points about Bose bashers and the UE vs Bose OE test.

I joined head-fi to learn about getting a quality set of closed cans. I ordered an AKG K81 DJ and have an ES7 on the way. I am not that happy with the K81s fit and sound quality. Instead of starting yet another thread comparing the two (I have read all the pertinent threads). I also tried the EA RP-21 and AT PRO5MS. The only reason I have an account is that the search function is a pain to use without registering.