[manaox2]

How many big businessmen with wedge shop at Target? That is another one of those images that Bose subconciously present in there ads and partnerships just like it is implied that they are the audiophiles choice.

Marketting prices get passed to the consumer in the price of the product. What they say is right. BOSE knows. They know the performance and build quality are not up to par. They just don't see any need to throw that money into research and performance when it works so much better to throw it into a stylish design (though possibly impractical) and increase marketing.

Oh and lets not forget the money that they spend on making and protecting patents and forming lawsuits.

 

[captian73]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif How many big businessmen with wedge shop at Target?

i don't know anything about Target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif another one of those images that Bose subconciously present in there ads and partnerships just like it is implied that they are the audiophiles choice.

But don't all ..... products claim to be the One, the best, blah, blah. it's called .... Marketing. i see know sense in Bose saying, "well you could buy this, but the senns are better. and again i don't see sennheiser doing that either.


Quote:

prices get passed to the consumer in the price of the product. What they say is right. BOSE knows. They know the performance and build quality are not up to par. They just don't see any need to throw that money into research and performance when it works so much better to throw it into a stylish design (though possibly impractical) and increase marketing.

well, i don't know if they've succeeded on the design front. i hate the design of my OE's. i can't stand them. i did this for a laugh a while ago, and would probably change my mind about a few of them

Headphonedeals: The 5 best looking headphones.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif so is that a good thing or a bad thing? but you and i know that for the most part mpg specs are a load of crap, hence Jeremy Clarkeson got 8 mpg out of a range rover sport, when the manufacturers quote was what, 17 mpg. Richard Hammond (people in the uK will know who I'm talking about) tested a 500 horsepower shelby mustang that had........ about 440 hp!

At least they had specs to compare. Jeremey can drive a Prius and get less MPG than anyone else. He weighs a tonne and drives like a maniac. We need an economy STIG to drive the cars to get an accurate number.


Quote:

numbers can be a good guide, but i don't think they tell you the whole story.

Irrelevant. They need to be published.

Quote:

But I do take on board your point about specs though,(see i'm coming 'round) and yes, at times i thought it strange that they've never released any specs, but again does that automatically mean "bad product"?

The point in discussion is not bad product but unethical company overcharging for a product.


Quote:

=99&graphID[]=255]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCom...phID[]=255 Now i was always told that the flatter the line the more accurate they would sound. HD650 and Bose QC2 (which i've never even thought about buying) but i like my bass. so here's the QC2 v 5EB's.

Accurate sound is the myth of audio. Most audiophiles don't like accurate sound. Most people in fact don't like it.

The Bose QC2 costs $299. Th EBs cost $129. Overpriced?




Quote:

=99&graphID[]=189]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCom...phID[]=189 but does that mean that i should write off the Bose. i think they're comfortable, i think they're built well, and they're foldable which is something i can't do that with the HD25-1's. may not be important to some, but it maybe a major consideration to someone else.

Again $299 vs $199. No power/battery's now sound from the Bose QC2. That might be important to someone. Some don't like active noise canceling headphones.

Yes. Now you finally get that a purchase is a personal decision. If people here don't like Bose that is their prerogative. You like it that is yours.

If you like it why does it matter if Bose bashers bash them. A person may have a million reasons to like a product. One of them may be the badge "Bose" why does it matter to you. You like the sound and the comfort enjoy it. Are you having buyers remorse and trying to validate your decisions with other peoples opinions?

The EA-rp21 and AKG K 81 DJ are fairly well liked here but I couldn't wearing stand them comfortwise and I didn't like the AKG K81 DJs sound. Doesn't mean they are bad headphones just not for me.

 

[captian73]

it's not what i like or don't like, it's what stands up and what arguments are complete piffle.

Quote:

The point in discussion is not bad product but unethical company overcharging for a product.

i can get on board that point, but when you say overcharging, in order to make such a comment, subconsciously i think you (not you personally) are comparing it to another product, or else what's your basis for saying overcharging.

Quote:

The Bose QC2 costs $299. Th EBs cost $129. Overpriced?

now lets get this right, because i'm sure you wouldn't want to miss lead the good people at head-fi.

reatail for the 5EB's $199

Super.fi 5 EB Description - Products - Ultimate Ears Earphones Headphones Personal Monitors

retail for the Bose $299 (i've got no time for the noise canceling stuff and would never buy them but it's the closest i could get, as HR doesn't have rating for the OE's)

Bose QuietComfort 2 Noise Cancelling Headphones - Headphones and Headsets

retail for the OE's $199 (same as the super.fi's in price, but not type)

Bose Mobile On-Ear Headset - Headphones and Headsets

 

[Zunefan1]

Bose products are a joke. Real audiophiles buy Grado, Sennheiser, etc. Check out Stereophile magazine for high-end audio reviews.

 

[ingwe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zunefan1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bose products are a joke. Real audiophiles buy Grado, Sennheiser, etc. Check out Stereophile magazine for high-end audio reviews.

Thanks!

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif it's not what i like or don't like, it's what stands up and what arguments are complete piffle.

I think your argument about comparing in ear canal phones to on ear phones falls under the later.



Quote:

i can get on board that point, but when you say overcharging, in order to make such a comment, subconsciously i think you (not you personally) are comparing it to another product, or else what's your basis for saying overcharging.

I Stopped by the Apple store and tried my iPhone on the Bose mobile OE, Bose AE, the QC2 and the QC3. I used the same songs on all. I found the OE overly bass heavy with a very narrow sound stage and very average instrument separation. The QC3s were a little more balanced but the left to right sound stage seemed to linger around the pads of the phones. The QC2s weren't that much better nor were the AE. Surprising because the only difference Bose claims is the type(OE, AE, IE) and noise canceling (OE,AE). Why do different Bose phones have different sound signatures?
I had to increase the volume level on my iPhone to more than half of max to get the same voulme output out of the QC2 as the OE (at little over 1/4th the max). This would have been easily explained if the sensitivity and impedance was specified.

Every other manufacturer differentiates their products and clearly mentions why they would sound different.

Of all the phones I have tried on recently driven by the same electronics I wouldn't buy the Bose. I don't think any of them sound like $179+ phones, personally.


Quote:

now lets get this right, because i'm sure you wouldn't want to miss lead the good people at head-fi. reatail for the 5EB's $199 Super.fi 5 EB Description - Products - Ultimate Ears Earphones Headphones Personal Monitors retail for the Bose $299 (i've got no time for the noise canceling stuff and would never buy them but it's the closest i could get, as HR doesn't have rating for the OE's)

You are splitting hairs. I am comparing how much I can buy something for. If Bose doesn't let retailers discount their products that makes my point even more.

The bottom line is I am not forced to pay retail prices for other products.

I just got the Audio-technica ATH-ES7 and I think it out performs all the Bose models in terms of sound quality. The Bose is better for comfort. But then again the Bose at the Apple store has been used 1000s of times more than my new out of the box ES7 so the bands might have stretched.

Riddle me this on amazon.com
The QC2 has 172 reviews and 4 stars cost $299.
The QC3 has 89 reviews and 4 stars $349.

The Audio-techinca ATH-ANC7 has 363 reviews and 4.5 stars it retails for $219.99 and can be had for $124.

How is it that more people like the Audio-technicas over the Bose noise canceling ones, many of them ex-bose owners?

 

[captian73]

Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by captian73 it's not what i like or don't like, it's what stands up and what arguments are complete piffle. I think your argument about comparing in ear canal phones to on ear phones falls under the later.

yet believe it or not oarnura, some people want to make the jump. and why shouldn't they!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/cha...7/#post3732799

Quote:

Stopped by the Apple store and tried my iPhone on the Bose mobile OE, Bose AE, the QC2 and the QC3. I used the same songs on all. I found the OE overly bass heavy with a very narrow sound stage and very average instrument separation. The QC3s were a little more balanced but the left to right sound stage seemed to linger around the pads of the phones. The QC2s weren't that much better nor were the AE. Surprising because the only difference Bose claims is the type(OE, AE, IE) and noise canceling (OE,AE). Why do different Bose phones have different sound signatures?

so now we're back to the ol' "tried in the shop", thing. oh dear!


Quote:

retail for the Bose $299 (i've got no time for the noise canceling stuff and would never buy them but it's the closest i could get, as HR doesn't have rating for the OE's) You are splitting hairs. I am comparing how much I can buy something for. If Bose doesn't let retailers discount their products that makes my point even more.

no you misquoted a price! this was the price you gave in one of your previous posts.

Quote:

The Bose QC2 costs $299. Th EBs cost $129. Overpriced?

both the manufacturers sell the 5EB's and the Bose OE's for the same price. what you've done is to mislead people, by displaying a retail price for one product, and a discount price for another.

what so you haven't seen any Bose discounts?

Amazon.com: bose headphones


how comes they retail for £120 yet i paid around £80. it's a point of looking. but that only depends on the kindness and point of view of each individual merchants' profit margin, as to how much of a discount is given. hardly the basis for an equal factual discussion. but you're right, products do have different deal prices, and we've all been fortunate to cash in on them, but that doesn't diminish a products true value. i think, you think it does!



Quote:

I just got the Audio-technica ATH-ES7 and I think it out performs all the Bose models in terms of sound quality. The Bose is better for comfort. But then again the Bose at the Apple store has been used 1000s of times more than my new out of the box ES7 so the bands might have stretched.

but like manaox2 said about companies not pushing their stuff hard enough, is that not the fault of AT not pushing their products enough.

Quote:

I can also place blame on the other headphone companies who DON'T put themselves out there far enough.

Quote:

I just got the Audio-technica ATH-ES7 and I think it out performs all the Bose models in terms of sound quality. The Bose is better for comfort. But then again the Bose at the Apple store has been used 1000s of times more than my new out of the box ES7 so the bands might have stretched. Riddle me this on amazon.com The QC2 has 172 reviews and 4 stars cost $299. The QC3 has 89 reviews and 4 stars $349. The Audio-techinca ATH-ANC7 has 363 reviews and 4.5 stars it retails for $219.99 and can be had for $124. How is it that more people like the Audio-technicas over the Bose noise canceling ones, many of them ex-bose owners?

finally you've come up with a factual point and have backed it up. More people like the AT and you have the proof to back that up. but there are some flaws that once again you've tried to portray as fact.

Quote:

many of them ex-bose owners?

how many? 'cause i've read 7 pages of reviews so far and i don't see Quote:

many

. i see few who mention Bose, 1 or 2 that have owned Bose, but doesn't constitute,

Quote:

many of them ex-bose owners?

also, if amazon and the merchants on amazon, where to drop the price of the Q3 to $99, how many reviews would you then see for Bose. I'm guessing more than 363!

then riddle me this. how comes you can buy some sennheisers for less than half the original RRP, yet you can't for Grado? are Grado ripping us off? are Grado part of this corporate conspiracy of passing inferior products at an inflated price?

what's you're take on that?

Amazon.com: grado: Electronics

 

[Assorted]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zunefan1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bose products are a joke. Real audiophiles buy Grado, Sennheiser, etc. Check out Stereophile magazine for high-end audio reviews.

Real audiophiles don't even read Stereophile.

 

[captian73]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif Real audiophiles don't even read Stereophile.

so what do they read?

Quote:

- A lot of people who thinks an HD 650 sounds awesome unamped, straight out from an iPod or MacBook, has a good chance of feeling the same way with a Bose Triport

well, i don't say they sound amazing, but i'd rather have them without the amp, than not have them at all. is that wrong to feel that way? i've only got a little go-vibe v5 amp, does that count?

 

[Cankin]

Probably not Head-fi

 

[Assorted]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, i don't say they sound amazing, but i'd rather have them without the amp, than not have them at all. is that wrong to feel that way? i've only got a little go-vibe v5 amp, does that count?

You actually got sucked into my rant! An unamped HD 650 is so smooth and creamy, with some seriously dipped middle frequency. It almost sounds like an unamped TriPort at the same volume. There's nothing "wrong" with that. When bringing my former AE-2 wasn't an option, I unhesitatingly used my HD 650 straight out of my 6 mW/channel DAP.

To have or not to have, is besides the point. People who inherently have the Bose hate, would think anything is better. A classmate of mine, who are just like the newer members of this forum, had just discovered the world of HP audio, thought that the unamped HD 650 "blew away" the unamped TriPort, just because it was the top-of-the-line Sennheiser. Letting innocent ears make the comparison was another story. In fact, they would have been surprised if the HD 650 was $300.

 

[james902]

oarnura: i know you tried all of them A-B bose's headphones, but i gotta tell ya, they sound different after using them for several days. just the way they fit makes a huge difference. plus you have to compare them in application. i.e. subway, coffeeshop, etc.

anyway, a lot of the arguments here compare apples to oranges. OE to IEM isn't a really fair comparison.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captian73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif yet believe it or not oarnura, some people want to make the jump. and why shouldn't they! http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/cha...7/#post3732799

Show me where I said people shouldn't buy Bose. Another straw man.



Quote:

so now we're back to the ol' "tried in the shop", thing. oh dear!

Give me a break. I tried the Equation Audio RP-21, RP-10 and the Audio-Technica PRO5MS in the shop and didn't buy them. Why shouldn't I use the same criteria for Bose. I should lend a special courtesy to Bose, why? Because they are Bose and they deserve more than others. Rubbish!

Would you buy me a pair so I can try it on at home for 5 months? Why would I spend $179 just to try a pair that I can't bear to listen for even 3 minutes at a store. Especially if I can't return them after 5 months.

Send me a pair and I'll gladly compare it to me ES7s over a 5 month period and post my impressions.

Quote:

no you misquoted a price! this was the price you gave in one of your previous posts.

Nope. I quoted the price from HeadRoom (headphone.com) the same place you used to get frequency response curves. When asked for specs from Bose you deliberately mislead people by choosing to use HeadRooms numbers.

Quote:

both the manufacturers sell the 5EB's and the Bose OE's for the same price. what you've done is to mislead people, by displaying a retail price for one product, and a discount price for another.

If you want to use the Manufacturers numbers then I challenge you once again to show me Bose's specs for their headphones not some independent third party's test.

Quote:

what so you haven't seen any Bose discounts? Amazon.com: bose headphones

And that link shows no discounts!!!.


Quote:

how comes they retail for £120 yet i paid around £80. it's a point of looking. but that only depends on the kindness and point of view of each individual merchants' profit margin, as to how much of a discount is given. hardly the basis for an equal factual discussion. but you're right, products do have different deal prices, and we've all been fortunate to cash in on them, but that doesn't diminish a products true value. i think, you think it does!

Get this. I don't think Bose products are worth my time to hunt for deals because I don't want to buy them. I tried them and to my ears they are not worth spending what Bose is asking or even half of that amount.


Quote:

but like manaox2 said about companies not pushing their stuff hard enough, is that not the fault of AT not pushing their products enough.

That is because most companies spend more on R&D and less on marketing unlike Bose. A point you just don't seem to understand. I have seen various Bose products and having made my on DIY speakers I can tell that Bose doesn't offer any real value. DIY speaker designs people post freely on the internet sound a lot better than whatever Bose spends on research.


Quote:

finally you've come up with a factual point and have backed it up. More people like the AT and you have the proof to back that up. but there are some flaws that once again you've tried to portray as fact.

My comparison is far more factual than your art student test for which I have only your word. Mine is public information even you have access to. So far you haven't provided a single factual point in this entire discussion.


Quote:

how many? 'cause i've read 7 pages of reviews so far and i don't see . i see few who mention Bose, 1 or 2 that have owned Bose, but doesn't constitute,

Since you are arguing semantics. More than one is many, period. There is nothing incorrect about my statement and data point.

Quote:

also, if amazon and the merchants on amazon, where to drop the price of the Q3 to $99, how many reviews would you then see for Bose. I'm guessing more than 363!

Irrelevant. Let's stick to facts and not hypothetical arguments.

Quote:

then riddle me this. how comes you can buy some sennheisers for less than half the original RRP, yet you can't for Grado? are Grado ripping us off? are Grado part of this corporate conspiracy of passing inferior products at an inflated price? Amazon.com: grado: Electronics

Almost every Grado is available below retail price.

All Headphones - HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears

It is obvious I am getting nowhere with the business or the technical side of this discussion. It is time to end it. Cheers!

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james902 /img/forum/go_quote.gif oarnura: i know you tried all of them A-B bose's headphones, but i gotta tell ya, they sound different after using them for several days. just the way they fit makes a huge difference. plus you have to compare them in application. i.e. subway, coffeeshop, etc. anyway, a lot of the arguments here compare apples to oranges. OE to IEM isn't a really fair comparison.

I tried them at the Apple store which is fairly noisy. I couldn't stand the Active Noise canceling ones because my ears are sensitive and it just didn't work for me. That is why even though I was tempted to get the ATH-ANC7 I didn't. I have tried my friends sony DAP with active noise canceling to the same effect so it isn't a knock against Bose, per se. I absolutely hated the boomy over emphasized bass from the Bose OE.

The Bose were definitely very comfortable if not the most comfortable phones after my Senn PX100.