[rockingthearies]

Placebo is a powerful thing in this world! 

Oh it sure is

 

[RicardoB]

Interesting that there even is a Chinese website since the Indian website claims that they only sell their phones in India and Southeast Asia. No mention at all of selling phones in China, but apparntly they do. Maybe they don't want Indians to know that they do? If they do sell in the Chinese market it is strange that aliexpress only has one seller and their prices are ridiculous. If the Y51 really does use Qualcomm SoC audio that would lead to an interesting question: why does it sound so different and so much louder than other phones with exactly the same SoC? Seems very strange to me.

I also did a direect comparison with the Y55 which has a Snapdragon 430 rather than the 410 that the Y51 has and the sound between the two is dramatically different. Anyone would notice the difference. Not just someone with golden ears. It would seem surprising that there would be such a huge difference in sound quality and volume between the 410 and 430 SoC audio. It doesn't really matter that much to me personally if the Y51 does not have HiFi audio since it lacks even a 720p display which is a minimum resolution for my needs, but I think it really does have non SoC audio chips.

I've asked sellers/reps at Vivo dealers about that phone and they always claim that the Y51 does indeed have HiFi audio. Again it doesn't really matter because that particular model has such a low resolution display but I suspect their web sites are not much more accurate about such things than they are about what countries they sell in or whether or not all of their phones have HiFi audio. Vivo seems a bit disorganized to me. Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence about their products. Next time I get to a Vivo dealer I'll see if they have anything on paper which says the Y51 is a HiFi model. Then snap a photo of it.

Also the Vivo X9 seems to have an AK4376.

According to devicespecifications the Lenovo A7010 and what they call the X3 Youth, the one we were discussing in this thread as the Vibe X3 Lite, are not the same phone. Devicespecifications and GSMArena both list "Vibe X3 Lite" as an alias for the A7010 but if true I think we were using that alias incorrectly here. According to GSMArena another Alias for the A7010 is the Vibe K4 Note and I've actually listened to that phone and was not impressed. So I certainly hope that was not the same phone that was reviewed here.

They both have the same SoC, the same 5.5" 1080p display, and the same primary camera but the A7010 has it's cores running at 1.5 Ghz and has a 32GB ROM and a 3300mah battery compared to 1.3 Ghz and 16GB and 3400mah for the X3 Youth or X3C78. As often with Lenovo the model names and numbers are a confusing mess, but the phone we were talking about here before and what was actually bought and tested by a headfier was the X3C78, the 16GB model. Devicespecification lists different specs for these models in their audio section with the x3c78 having the audio chips listed in the chart but only the Wolfson chip for the A7010. Do you have a source that contradicts that information? I just checked the specs for the A7010 on a Lenovo web site (http://shop.lenovo.com/ae/en/smartphones/a-series/a7010/#tab-tech_specs) and it also only lists a Wolfson WM8281 audio codec under audio. Maybe that qualifies the phone to make the list, but it seems like quite different audio from the X3C78 that a headfier purchased.

If I search Aliexpress for the Vibe X3 Lite it lists a device with 16GB and 3400mah, what devicespecifications calls the X3 Youth with aliases of x3c78, k51c78, and Lemon X3 Youth. So aliexpress vendors are making the same 'mistake' we have with the alias Vibe X3 Lite. The problem is it has a kind of logic because essentially that is what the x3c78 phone is, a lite version of the X3. Confusing as hell. The important question is really whether the A7010 does have the same audio chips as the Lemon X3 Youth or x3c78 or whatever you want to call that phone. GSMarena calls it the Vibe X3 C78.

Incidentally if I search for A7010 or Vibe K4 Note on aliexpress I get nothing. It is still listed on Lenovo's web sites though. I have never seen the x3c78 listed on a Lenovo web site but it is available on aliexpress. The Vibe K4 Note is definitely still available for purchase here in the Philippines, but I don't think the x3c78 was ever available here.

Thank you for that write up, so basically the models with "C78" are the ones to get? I notice there is a model with a Snapdragon 808 called "Vibe X3" which is around $300+ and then the mediatek lite versions that are very cheap these days around $120 have that "C78" in the model number, if the lite version has the chip setup I would order one this week at those prices

 

[Gojira]

Well imo yes the C78 version of the Vibe X3 is simply superb in terms of bang-for-buck, but it depends on your needs and how much money you have and how much you trust devicespecifications to get their data right. According to that web site Lenovo made only 2 phones in 2015 with non-SoC audio. The Vibe X3 ($420 at gearbest) [in 32GB/64GB versions] with its Qualcomm SoC and other higher specs, and yes it must have either the word "Vibe" or "Lemon" before the X3, and the Vibe or Lemon X3 Youth or C78 ($125 at aliexpress). I think I read somewhere that "Lemon" was mainly used in the Indian market but who knows. Vibe seems to be more common than Lemon.
 
The problem is afaik Lenovo doesn't actually market the C78 version of the Vibe X3 as having any sort of special HiFi audio, but then they don't seem to market it at all. As far as their web site is concerned it doesn't exist. One might only speculate as to why that may be. If I do buy one I plan to compare it directly against the X3 if I can find one here to make sure the sound is basically the same. I'm guessing that it is the same and that they are not happy about that screwup, but that may be an overly optimistic view and devicespecifications may be wrong. But a headfier did buy one and vouched for the better-than-SoC sound and that's enough to push through any doubts I may have had about the accuracy of devicespecifications data. He said the phone was quite loud and that is one thing that SoC audio is not, but the point is that if it turns out not to have non-SoC audio chips we can't complain to Lenovo because they never claimed it did.
 
Actually I just realized something. The phone definitely has a Mediatek SoC. Based on my admittedly somewhat limited listening tests Mediatek SoC audio is vastly inferior to Qualcomm SoC audio. The difference is huge imo at least. I could almost see mistaking particularly good Snapdragon 410 or 400 etc audio for dedicated chips because it really is at least surprisingly loud (although still not quite loud enough for my aging ears) compared to most phone audio, but Mediatek SoC audio is just so quiet and so bad that I can't imagine anyone, even a non-headfier, raving about it. So I feel pretty safe pulling the trigger on it with the assumption that it really does have some kind of good sounding non-SoC audio even if devicespecifications got it wrong.
 
Other options for me are the PPTV King 7 (untested),  the Xiaomi Mi Note (non-Pro), and the LeTV x800 or x900. I was planning to buy the much more expensive x900 for the large 2k phablet display and AKG tuned custom ESS DAC actually, but changed my mind when I discovered it had the same NXP amp that is in my Flash Plus 2 which is just not quite loud enough for me and not really noticeably louder than good Qualcomm SoC audio. I checked the datasheet and marketing on the amp and nowhere does it say that the gain is adjustable. The volume is adjustable within a fixed range, but the overall gain seems to be fixed. So every phone with that chip should have basically the same max volume level. Which means that the x900 is probably only loud enough if you have young or at least sensitive hearing. I don't. Maybe when I was a teenager I could have enjoyed that custom ESS DAC sound at lower SoC range volumes, but with that amp it's a very risky purchase for me now. So I'll probably end up going for this Lenovo despite the fact that I'd really rather have a larger 6"+ screen.

 

[RicardoB]

Well imo yes the C78 version of the Vibe X3 is simply superb in terms of bang-for-buck, but it depends on your needs and how much money you have and how much you trust devicespecifications to get their data right. According to that web site Lenovo made only 2 phones in 2015 with non-SoC audio. The Vibe X3 ($420 at gearbest) [in 32GB/64GB versions] with its Qualcomm SoC and other higher specs, and yes it must have either the word "Vibe" or "Lemon" before the X3, and the Vibe or Lemon X3 Youth or C78 ($125 at aliexpress). I think I read somewhere that "Lemon" was mainly used in the Indian market but who knows. Vibe seems to be more common than Lemon.

The problem is afaik Lenovo doesn't actually market the C78 version of the Vibe X3 as having any sort of special HiFi audio, but then they don't seem to market it at all. As far as their web site is concerned it doesn't exist. One might only speculate as to why that may be. If I do buy one I plan to compare it directly against the X3 if I can find one here to make sure the sound is basically the same. I'm guessing that it is the same and that they are not happy about that screwup, but that may be an overly optimistic view and devicespecifications may be wrong. But a headfier did buy one and vouched for the better-than-SoC sound and that's enough to push through any doubts I may have had about the accuracy of devicespecifications data. He said the phone was quite loud and that is one thing that SoC audio is not, but the point is that if it turns out not to have non-SoC audio chips we can't complain to Lenovo because they never claimed it did.

Actually I just realized something. The phone definitely has a Mediatek SoC. Based on my admittedly somewhat limited listening tests Mediatek SoC audio is vastly inferior to Qualcomm SoC audio. The difference is huge imo at least. I could almost see mistaking particularly good Snapdragon 410 or 400 etc audio for dedicated chips because it really is at least surprisingly loud (although still not quite loud enough for my aging ears) compared to most phone audio, but Mediatek SoC audio is just so quiet and so bad that I can't imagine anyone, even a non-headfier, raving about it. So I feel pretty safe pulling the trigger on it with the assumption that it really does have some kind of good sounding non-SoC audio even if devicespecifications got it wrong.

Other options for me are the PPTV King 7 (untested),  the Xiaomi Mi Note (non-Pro), and the LeTV x800 or x900. I was planning to buy the much more expensive x900 for the large 2k phablet display and AKG tuned custom ESS DAC actually, but changed my mind when I discovered it had the same NXP amp that is in my Flash Plus 2 which is just not quite loud enough for me and not really noticeably louder than good Qualcomm SoC audio. I checked the datasheet and marketing on the amp and nowhere does it say that the gain is adjustable. The volume is adjustable within a fixed range, but the overall gain seems to be fixed. So every phone with that chip should have basically the same max volume level. Which means that the x900 is probably only loud enough if you have young or at least sensitive hearing. I don't. Maybe when I was a teenager I could have enjoyed that custom ESS DAC sound at lower SoC range volumes, but with that amp it's a very risky purchase for me now. So I'll probably end up going for this Lenovo despite the fact that I'd really rather have a larger 6"+ screen.

Well I have the x800 and it's pretty loud without any eq and even louder with gain adjustment in certain apps like Poweramp or Neutron without distortion but like you said that depends on not only the type of headphones but also the listener, I had the idol 3 and i was very disappointed in its so called "hi-fi" and it's output so I gave up on that brand, I usually like my music loud but with the x800 I usually hover between 60 to 80 percent (some tracks have really low volume on Spotify) and according to @artpiggo the x900 is a little louder than the x800 but if you do decide to get one try to get the CN version as it gets updates and the HIFI toggle actually works.

 

[artpiggo]

Well imo yes the C78 version of the Vibe X3 is simply superb in terms of bang-for-buck, but it depends on your needs and how much money you have and how much you trust devicespecifications to get their data right. According to that web site Lenovo made only 2 phones in 2015 with non-SoC audio. The Vibe X3 ($420 at gearbest) [in 32GB/64GB versions] with its Qualcomm SoC and other higher specs, and yes it must have either the word "Vibe" or "Lemon" before the X3, and the Vibe or Lemon X3 Youth or C78 ($125 at aliexpress). I think I read somewhere that "Lemon" was mainly used in the Indian market but who knows. Vibe seems to be more common than Lemon.

The problem is afaik Lenovo doesn't actually market the C78 version of the Vibe X3 as having any sort of special HiFi audio, but then they don't seem to market it at all. As far as their web site is concerned it doesn't exist. One might only speculate as to why that may be. If I do buy one I plan to compare it directly against the X3 if I can find one here to make sure the sound is basically the same. I'm guessing that it is the same and that they are not happy about that screwup, but that may be an overly optimistic view and devicespecifications may be wrong. But a headfier did buy one and vouched for the better-than-SoC sound and that's enough to push through any doubts I may have had about the accuracy of devicespecifications data. He said the phone was quite loud and that is one thing that SoC audio is not, but the point is that if it turns out not to have non-SoC audio chips we can't complain to Lenovo because they never claimed it did.

Actually I just realized something. The phone definitely has a Mediatek SoC. Based on my admittedly somewhat limited listening tests Mediatek SoC audio is vastly inferior to Qualcomm SoC audio. The difference is huge imo at least. I could almost see mistaking particularly good Snapdragon 410 or 400 etc audio for dedicated chips because it really is at least surprisingly loud (although still not quite loud enough for my aging ears) compared to most phone audio, but Mediatek SoC audio is just so quiet and so bad that I can't imagine anyone, even a non-headfier, raving about it. So I feel pretty safe pulling the trigger on it with the assumption that it really does have some kind of good sounding non-SoC audio even if devicespecifications got it wrong.

Other options for me are the PPTV King 7 (untested),  the Xiaomi Mi Note (non-Pro), and the LeTV x800 or x900. I was planning to buy the much more expensive x900 for the large 2k phablet display and AKG tuned custom ESS DAC actually, but changed my mind when I discovered it had the same NXP amp that is in my Flash Plus 2 which is just not quite loud enough for me and not really noticeably louder than good Qualcomm SoC audio. I checked the datasheet and marketing on the amp and nowhere does it say that the gain is adjustable. The volume is adjustable within a fixed range, but the overall gain seems to be fixed. So every phone with that chip should have basically the same max volume level. Which means that the x900 is probably only loud enough if you have young or at least sensitive hearing. I don't. Maybe when I was a teenager I could have enjoyed that custom ESS DAC sound at lower SoC range volumes, but with that amp it's a very risky purchase for me now. So I'll probably end up going for this Lenovo despite the fact that I'd really rather have a larger 6"+ screen.

. Just seeing it having similar nxp doesnt mean it has same output. There are many factors affecting sound volume and quality.

X900 is way better than flash+2. This is what I can only say

 

[Gojira]

Here are the amps in the sub-$200 non-SoC phones:
 
NXP TFA9890 (LeTV x800 and x900, Bluboo Maya Max, Flash Plus 2)
 
Maxim MAX97220 (PPTV King 7 and some high end Vivo phones)
 
Texas Instruments OPA1612 (Lenovo Vibe X3 C78/Youth, Xiaomi Mi Note, Ramos MOS1 Max and Meizu MX4 Pro and Pro 5 and some high end Vivo phones)
 
I looked at the summaries and data sheets and I'm not sure what to think about the comparison except that the NXP device seems to try to do more internally than the other two with DSP limiting and some kind of novel method of protecting speakers from damage and seems more designed for small speakers than for headphones. Also I see no mention of any way to control the gain on the NXP chip. So for now I am assuming that all phones with that same chip will have the same max volume. It would be a fun project to try to make a headphone amp for each of these three chips and see which one sounds the best, but for now all I know for sure is that my Flash Plus 2 has poor sound quality and disappointing max volume and it uses that NXP 9890 amp.

 

[Gojira]

. Just seeing it having similar nxp doesnt mean it has same output. There are many factors affecting sound volume and quality.

X900 is way better than flash+2. This is what I can only say

 
I don't doubt that the x900 is way better. That's damning by faint praise. Many phones I have listened to are way better. The Vivo Y51 completely blows my phone away in terms of both volume and sound quality and even many Qualcomm SoC phones sound better too. What I am not so sure about is whether the max volume is the same. How sensitive is your hearing? I'd like to ask your age but that seems a bit intrusive. I will assume you are under 40. I looked at the data sheet on that amp and I don't see a way to boost its max volume (aside maybe from increasing its supply voltage a little), but maybe there is. I really really had wanted the x900 until I saw it used the same amp as the Flash Plus 2. An amp that I don't see Meizu or Vivo or Lenovo or Xioami using for their HiFi phones. Only LeTV and some highly questionable Chinese brands and my Flash Plus 2.
 
Do you typically listen with the x900 at less than max volume and if so how much less? With my Flash Plus 2 the volume is always maxed out. I never need to turn it down below max. It is usually adequate unless I have a relatively quiet recording or am in a noisy environment but the same could be said for Qualcomm SoC audio. When I listen to a Vivo HiFi phone or even some Qualcomm SoC phones where I have to turn the volume down below max for some songs I realize what I am missing and what I was hoping for when I bought the Flash Plus 2.

 

[Emerald Core]

  Checked on Vivo's official chinese website about the Y51, and theres no mentions about any audio chip as they would show in other smartphones. Also i found a few Vivo models on Alibaba, not cheap though.
 
Also had a hard time trying to find the X800's DAC chip model, most websites say that it is ESS costumized, which is not because there is NO AKG certification in the box of the phone, but then i stumbled upon this https://www.avito.ru/moskva/telefony/letv_x800_850386377 website that says it has the Sabre ES9018K2M, now the box does say that it has a Sabre DAC, but not costumized by AKG, so im assuming this is the correct DAC model.
 
 
Other than that, i added Maya Max, X800, UMI Max and X3 Lite to the list, i updated the image. Thanks for the mentions
 
 

 
That's great. 
 
After making such a database, can you list the best sounding phones so far ? list 3-5 for a common guy like me. 

 

[artpiggo]

I don't doubt that the x900 is way better. That's damning by faint praise. Many phones I have listened to are way better. The Vivo Y51 completely blows my phone away in terms of both volume and sound quality and even many Qualcomm SoC phones sound better too. What I am not so sure about is whether the max volume is the same. How sensitive is your hearing? I'd like to ask your age but that seems a bit intrusive. I will assume you are under 40. I looked at the data sheet on that amp and I don't see a way to boost its max volume (aside maybe from increasing its supply voltage a little), but maybe there is. I really really had wanted the x900 until I saw it used the same amp as the Flash Plus 2. An amp that I don't see Meizu or Vivo or Lenovo or Xioami using for their HiFi phones. Only LeTV and some highly questionable Chinese brands and my Flash Plus 2.

Do you typically listen with the x900 at less than max volume and if so how much less? With my Flash Plus 2 the volume is always maxed out. I never need to turn it down below max. It is usually adequate unless I have a relatively quiet recording or am in a noisy environment but the same could be said for Qualcomm SoC audio. When I listen to a Vivo HiFi phone or even some Qualcomm SoC phones where I have to turn the volume down below max for some songs I realize what I am missing and what I was hoping for when I bought the Flash Plus 2.

Well if you that doubt in letv. Dont care about it. Just buy whatever you want to.

I was using mi note, meizu pro, lenovo vibe x3 and I sold/give to my relatives all of them. Then Now I have 2 Letv max. One for phone, another as music player.

And to answer your question, I would be deaf if I put it at max volume...

 

[artpiggo]

That's great. 

After making such a database, can you list the best sounding phones so far ? list 3-5 for a common guy like me. 

 

[Gojira]

In your comparison you stated the x900 had the "highest output power" of any phone you've heard. By that do you mean it is the loudest phone you've ever heard? Is the speaker loud as well?

 

[artpiggo]

In your comparison you stated the x900 had the "highest output power" of any phone you've heard. By that do you mean it is the loudest phone you've ever heard? Is the speaker loud as well?

Sure...you wont be any of happier in this price range...

 

[GouryellaIV]

   
That's great. 
 
After making such a database, can you list the best sounding phones so far ? list 3-5 for a common guy like me. 

based on specs
 
1. Letv Le Max X900 (my future phone)
2. Vivo Xplay 5 Ultimate
 
but from what ive listened
 
1. Meizu Pro 5
2. LG V10

 

[Onitsuka]

Talking about Level of insanity. What level are you now?

Lv0 understand difference sound when changing solder/plug used in cable.
Lv1 understand difference sound from digital cable
Lv2 understand difference sound when changing battery of player
Lv3 understand difference sound from ethernet cable while you do streaming in-house.
Lv4 understand difference sound from just "copying" music file from different sources
Lv5 understand difference sound when you use different finger to select music

Based on a lot of discussions of burn in and cables' magics here on HeadFi, I believe there are a lot of Level10 members lol

 

[Gum Ball]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and I'm just a common guy. Could you guys please tell me which one of the list down there I should get? Any out of the box in these range of price? Thank you so much. (My English is not good, please forgive me if there was anything annoyed)
 
LG G3 - Cirrus Logic 
LG G2 - Wolfson 
Galaxy S5 - Wolfson  
Nexus 5 - Wolfson 
HTC ONE M8 - Unknown
One Plus One - Yamaha 
ASUS ZenFone 2 - Realtek