[Gusse]

Sorry, I just try to downgrade that way. But it is not successful. I need to contact them for procedure.

Vivo really like making things easier for there customers
I will wait and see what you are able to found out

 

[Elite_Force]

Hello, guys! How would the mentioned phones like meizu pro 6 plus, g6, v20 sound compared to mid-tier daps, a.e. cayin n5, shanling m5? In terms of amping it is clear that dap beats the phone, but it cannot be an issue with low impedance iems. But how the situation looks in terms of sound quality? Is the difference very obvious?

I have meizu mx4 pro with intention to upgrade my current triple fi to earsonics es-3, therefore, I am curious if it is worth buying dap in addition or it will not be a big leap ahead of the sound image which phone delivers.


I auditioned mentioned daps with my triple fi and to be honest wasn't much impressed by the sound. It seemed to me that triple fi were limitation i these pairings.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[artpiggo]

One of my friend buys pro5 and after that he wants to challenge by buying cayin n3 as an upgrade. After few days, he sold DAP off.

Another one buy v20 and after a while he buys fiio x5iii and then after 2 weeks, he sells fiio out and said it is not necessary for him, v20 is enough and more convenient. He asked me if which DAP will impress him so I suggest DX200. He love it and said that is really clear upgrade to his smartphone.

Hope this help you decide.

 

[Nalin]

@artpiggo

What about the likes of chord mojo ?

 

[artpiggo]

@artpiggo

What about the likes of chord mojo ?

I dont prefer mojo's sound but in the same price range, ifi micro idsd really easily blows away all smartphones. Not to mention chord hugo as my favorite DAC at all time.

 

[Nalin]

I dont prefer mojo's sound but in the same price range, ifi micro idsd really easily blows away all smartphones. Not to mention chord hugo as my favorite DAC at all time.

Yep sure those two are epic. But can't match smartphone for it's portability and probably would be an overkill for iem too.

 

[StanD]

Alright so it has an algorithm to detect the best case senerio as you said earlier ? If so then this is a huge plus over lg which doesn't have that.

Impedance should not be the only determining factor whether to use high or low gain, sensitivity is the real factor and cannot be detected by the phone. Also any radical lowering of gain by use of software could result in loss of resolution, you lose bits. Cutting the gain in half (-6 dBV) could take you from 16 to 15 bits. Increasing the gain in software has its own issues. This might be the only case I can see for going above 16 bits resolution, a better solution is analog gain controls at the amp, like my external amps, either desktop or portable.

 

[PsiCore]

I'm thinking about the HTC 10. I'm always using the Neutron player. What I'm missing in this phone is a second sd slot. So maybe a noob question, but is it possible to use the second micro sd with a usb card reader attached to the phone? Will Neutron see this usb connected sd card?

 

[lantian]

Impedance should not be the only determining factor whether to use high or low gain, sensitivity is the real factor and cannot be detected by the phone. Also any radical lowering of gain by use of software could result in loss of resolution, you lose bits. Cutting the gain in half (-6 dBV) could take you from 16 to 15 bits. Increasing the gain in software has its own issues. This might be the only case I can see for going above 16 bits resolution, a better solution is analog gain controls at the amp, like my external amps, either desktop or portable.

Never quite got this, what do people mean when they say this? Is it that volume should alway's be at 100% otherwise you loose bit depth or is it in some other sense?

 

[StanD]

Never quite got this, what do people mean when they say this? Is it that volume should alway's be at 100% otherwise you loose bit depth or is it in some other sense?

The digital representation of amplitude (volume) is discontinuous or staircase like. so lets use 16 bits as an example. That would mean that a signal would be represented by integer numbers in the range of +32767 and -32768 as the full scale. If your signal uses the full range and you attenuate (reduce volume) it digitally the high and low number limits for the signal do not reach these limits and have a lesser range on numbers to represent it. To make this easier to visualize, let's say we do an extreme lowering of volume so that the numbers in the signal range in +/-512. Yes that would lower the volume but limit the resolution to 1024 steps from positive to negative. That would also mean that system noise becomes more significant. How this is perceived is yet another discussion. If you keep the volume on your device cranked up all the way and lower the volume using the volume control of your external amp (analog) you maintain the fullest range of numbers (finer granularity). If your amp is too sensitive and its volume control isn't rightly designed you cold get some clipping. So if there are some things still wrong, you have to fiddle and learn how to deal with it. This is part of getting your sound happy and another aggravation in addition to the damage to your wallet.

 

[lantian]

The digital representation of amplitude (volume) is discontinuous or staircase like. so lets use 16 bits as an example. That would mean that a signal would be represented by integer numbers in the range of +32767 and -32768 as the full scale. If your signal uses the full range and you attenuate (reduce volume) it digitally the high and low number limits for the signal do not reach these limits and have a lesser range on numbers to represent it. To make this easier to visualize, let's say we do an extreme lowering of volume so that the numbers in the signal range in +/-512. Yes that would lower the volume but limit the resolution to 1024 steps from positive to negative. That would also mean that system noise becomes more significant. How this is perceived is yet another discussion. If you keep the volume on your device cranked up all the way and lower the volume using the volume control of your external amp (analog) you maintain the fullest range of numbers (finer granularity). If your amp is too sensitive and its volume control isn't rightly designed you cold get some clipping. So if there are some things still wrong, you have to fiddle and learn how to deal with it. This is part of getting your sound happy and another aggravation in addition to the damage to your wallet.

Thank you

 

[jagwap]

Well I have finally sat down and listed to the LG V20 v G6. Interesting. I am in high impedance mode into Audeze Sine headphones. High impedance is triggered by a cable with 470 ohms to ground plugged in first, then headphones.

I took a while to get another 3.5mm splitter to build in some resistors as my adapter to kick it into high impedance mode. My last two got broken by getting caught on others on the subway as they walk off. So this time I made two so I had a back up. This allows me to plug one in each phone, keeping them in high impedance mode and playing, at the same volume level. Swapping between then is now a matter of plugging in.

I am not hearing a lack of bass on the G6 as previously stated. But the slightly crisper treble and upper mid does in my experience have the effect of tilting the balance towards the top end, so this can be the interpretation people will have. This comes across as slightly better transients, cymbals, snare etc. The bass if anything is tighter on the G6. The general impression is that the G6 is less cluttered when the music gets busy, while the V20 sounds (great, but) can get very slightly less clear. This has the effect of making the V20 mid a little more forward.

The most surprising difference is the sound stage separation. The V20 seem to push the left and right further out away from the central image. But against the G6 it seems somehow false, a little phasey. Like some spacialiser or cross-feed effect. It is relatively subtle, but I wouldn't put it down to crosstalk, and isn't obvious on all tracks. Please note I have the V20 with B&O stamped on the back. Whether B&O have made any changes to the other V20s is still not clear.

Edit: I just recalled the track which showed this may be SACD downmixes to 2.0, so the original may be a 5.1, causing there to be more phase differences for the V20 to work on. Not sure.

Between these two the G6 has it by a hair. If you have the V20, getting the G6 may make you smile, but I wouldn't recommend it as a necessary upgrade. The V20 is really good already, and there is little between them

 

[Nalin]

Impedance should not be the only determining factor whether to use high or low gain, sensitivity is the real factor and cannot be detected by the phone. Also any radical lowering of gain by use of software could result in loss of resolution, you lose bits. Cutting the gain in half (-6 dBV) could take you from 16 to 15 bits. Increasing the gain in software has its own issues. This might be the only case I can see for going above 16 bits resolution, a better solution is analog gain controls at the amp, like my external amps, either desktop or portable.

About high gain i felt that it added a lot of hiss ie. background noise when i manually increases gain in lenovo vibe x3. On low gain you are right it suddenly feels like details are getting lost and i have to increase the volume to at least what it was during high gain.

 

[StanD]

About high gain i felt that it added a lot of hiss ie. background noise when i manually increases gain in lenovo vibe x3. On low gain you are right it suddenly feels like details are getting lost and i have to increase the volume to at least what it was during high gain.

Increasing gain amplifies the background noise of the content as well as components in the chain ahead of the amp or point of gain. Increasing gain increases loudness and it's the loudness that makes things sound better because our human FR perception changes with volume as characterized by "Equal Loudness Contour" or "Fletcher-Munson."
Since all of this is happening in side your phone, either it's the phone itself or baked into the recording you're listening. In the former it's bad news, in the latter, find a better recording or other content. I hope you can sort this out.
As note to many here, adding a series resistor as a means of artificially increasing impedance is not a good move:

1. It reduces damping (control of bass) for dynamic headphones/IEMs.
2. It has bad FR effects for headphones/IEMs with wild impedance curves.
3. It simply reduces the gain/sensitivity for Planar/Ortho cans, loss of volume for transducers that are usually not sensitive to start with.

 

[lantian]

About high gain i felt that it added a lot of hiss ie. background noise when i manually increases gain in lenovo vibe x3. On low gain you are right it suddenly feels like details are getting lost and i have to increase the volume to at least what it was during high gain.

Do you mean high impedance with adapter, does it boost the output power any more than selecting hd650 in headset menu?