[Warfront1]

I would have agreed with you a few years ago; however, not now. The dongle DAC market has exploded. IMHO, to say that an audiophile phone beats the Cayin RU6 and RU7 which are around £250 is ridiculous. I say the RU6 and RU7 because I have them; however, many would add a host of other dongle DAC amps (most of which are even cheaper than the Cayins) to the list that outperform audiophile phones including:

iBasso DC03 PRO
iBasso DC04 PRO
Aune Yuki
Hiby FC6
Tanchjim Space

The truth is phone companies do not care about audio fidelity beyond Bluetooth codecs (as dictated by the mass market). Audiophiles represent a niche market: this niche is even smaller in the smartphone community hence LG pulled out. And let's face it, they were the last to create amazing integrated DACs in their V--series smartphones. But that was a few years ago now and dongle DACs have taken portable audiophile listening to the next level - beyond smartphone capabilities. And there are so many different implementations and configurations, not too mention some with discrete components; rendering audiophile smartphones a thing of the past.

I have the LG V20 and a TANCHJIM Space. Note to readers: The Space seems to have stability issues on the V20, but not my newer Android devices.
However, you are correct the Space has some impressive improvements over the V20 from purely a HiFi listening experience in an App such as USB Audio Player PRO.

That doesn't make the V20 bad though, and I still daily drive the V20 whereas the Space gets little usage.
Most of these USB DACs don't have ADCs or passthroughs onboard, and compatibility seems iffy on a per app basis.
In many cases you have to go through a few physically manual processes to switch around to different apps or functions on your phone requiring audio.

You can be listening to your HiFi tracks in USB Audio Player PRO, hop to discord, to a phone call, and back to your USB Audio Player PRO with the V20.
You don't have to carry an extra device, which at places like the gym are likely to get damaged especially if even slightly bulky.
Also, you can turn off and on the HiFi DAC to save battery, or if you have the V20 just carry a spare battery with yourself if you are that hardcore.
Typically my battery lasts the whole day.

Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with these improvements in the USB DAC market, but it isn't perfect yet.
A big part of that is likely Android OS technical problems and the market still in what I would consider its early phases.
Simply put the good "Audiophile" grade phones are jacks of all trades but are no longer masters at all.
However, they do offer the most convenience.
I will reiterate that these internal DAC implementations on phones like the LG V series offer a significant improvement over something like a phone with a random 3.5mm OEM DAC implementation.
It is worth noting though, that as the days pass the convenience level is decreasing as these older "Audiophile" grade phones age and start becoming outdated from a software and hardware perspective.

 

[Old_Snake]

I've had my Sony Xperia 10 IV (the latest "10 V" has virtually identical specs) for almost 10 months and I use mine with my Hidizs S9 Pro DAC-AMP dongle when I have over-ear headphones plugged in and probably planar magnetic IEMs too if I ever get one in the future.

The reason why I went for the Xperia 10 IV/V is the battery life.

It's basically iPhone 13/14 Pro Max class battery life crammed inside of a iPhone 13/14 Pro sized shell and since the energy efficiency of the Snapdragon 695 is very similar to Apple A15/A16 you get 30-50% longer battery life across the board.



That's 23 hours of tested medium-light use (16 on the iPhone Pros) for surviving a transpacific flight with enough left for a full day of use and at least 8 days on standby with "STAMINA MODE" (5.5 days on battery saver on the iPhone Pros).

The longevity on STAMINA standby also makes it ideal for multi-day backpacking trips as I can also use it with GAIA GPS without cell service negating the need to carry around a dedicated GPS navigation device.

And regarding the 10 IV/V's older brother the Xperia 1 IV/V I'd love to have a phone with a 3.5-5X physically variable optical zooming telephoto camera as it's so insanely awesome to have lens tech that used to only exist in point-and-shoot cameras 15 years ago now shrunk down to the size of a pea and crammed inside a pill-sized module in a phone.

Alas I find much more utility in a phone that lasts 2-4 days on a charge than one with much more performance and photography capabilities (which is why I also bought a Oppo Reno 10X Zoom around the same time) but only lasts a waking day on a charge.

All that to say that it's crazy to have a phone with perfectly decent performance that keeps up with the Galaxy S9 & OnePlus 6 while lasting 2-3X on a single charge making it the perfect DAP when paired with a DAC dongle.

Oh and and it regularly gets listed on eBay for $250-$275

How is the sound directly from the headphone jack? I'm coming form an LG V20.

 

[Old_Snake]

Anyone using a Xiaomi Poco F5?

 

[sicnesse]

Moondrop making a phone: https://moondroplab.com/en/phone/miad01

 

[Warfront1]

How is the sound directly from the headphone jack? I'm coming form an LG V20.

The Sony Xperia 5 IV has a max of ~0.5 volts, where as I believe LG V20 has over double that.
If the newer Xperia models followed suit you will have much less power to work with.

Wafront1

 

[Results45]

@reverbhifi
Interesting insights, thank you. When it's time to replace my DAC, I'll check here again for a "Digital Audio Player". Being able to pick up the player without some nasty DAC box attached to it, is a big deal. And it sounds like it's possible to get some very solid quality out of it, which is where I am typically at.

@yfei
That a phone can beat any DAC below $10,000 seems, well, concerning at least. It would mean that all other DAC makers are pretty much selling snake oil. And while I think that there is a good share of snake oil out there, I still believe that there are some solid levels in price and quality in between. Or maybe it would be adequate to pair a smart phone integrated DAC with a pair of $5000 headphones ....? Someone please tell me.

Small as the handful may be there are $30 headphones and IEMs that sound every bit as good as $120 models do exist.

Likewise there's DAPs like the Fiio M17 that can be had for $1400 on sale which get you 95% to a what's offered in some $5500 DAPs.

So by that logic of "there's affordable audio gear that sounds and feels as great as stuff that costs 4X the price" yeah, you're right: there's no way that a $1000 device can match the quality and finesse of a $10,000 device. Nor can a $10K setup match the $60,000 Sennheiser HE-1.

Though in my part-opinion/part-experience the vast majority of DAC-AMPs really only add that potentially magical 5-10% to the listening experience unless the specific headset is picky with sources and simply cannot be pleasantly listened without these "$10,000 DACs" you're alluding to.

Or to put it another way: the audio reproduction by a given model of headphone defines how one experiences the music much more than the source as long as the provides enough juice and does not introduce noticeably or perceptibly unwanted RF noise/static.

Moondrop making a phone: https://moondroplab.com/en/phone/miad01

I would love to see an audio hardware brand like Moondrop integrate the following features into a phone:

• Can be used on cellular network for texting & making calls unlike a DAP
• Easily repairable if not endomodular
• a miniature "analog 1-bit R2R" DAC circuit like the Cayin RU7
• AMP with 400-500mW @ 32 ohms of power output (can power 640ohm cans @ 20-25mW)
• ultra efficient SoC (i.e. Snapdragon 695, 6 Gen1, 4 Gen2)
• 8GB+ LPDDR5X RAM
• a capacious 6500-8500mAh battery
• 3 x balanced TRRS/TRRRS audio jacks -- top 2.5mm + top 4.4mm + bottom 3.5mm with 6.35mm adapters included for each size
• 2 x USB-C ports -- one on top that's directly connected to the DAC/AMP and another that supports USB 3.2 Gen2, Gen 2x2, or USB4 (10Gbps, 20Gbps, or 40Gbps wired data transfer rates)
• LTPO OLED or LTPS miniLED display with High PWM Dimming to prevent or reduce eye fatigue & headaches from PWM flicker.
• Under-display/rear cover graphite heat spreaders to distribute and more efficiently transfer away heat + dual-cell battery to reduce heat generation
• "Reverse Qi" wireless charging to refuel wireless TWS earbuds on the go
• Bluetooth 5.3 or 5.4 (LC3 codec is lower latency than SBC and enables "multi-stream audio sharing" to supported TWS earbuds & wireless headphones)
• Physical toggle switches to disable microphones, cameras, sensors, antennas, ports to reduce internal RF noise and interference as much as possible that might impact audio quality -- or alternately programmable switches that can also be set to toggle EQ presets ;D
• Physical volume knob + secondary programmable knob for EQing by default (select part/slice of frequency response using the touchscreen or volume rocker and turn the knob to tune to your liking)

So a phone with a bunch of additional features that top the Fiio M15S.

Maybe undercut Fiio a little by offering the fully featured one for $1000-$1350 and a more affordable "Lite" version for $650-$875 with 5 of the 16 features above scaled down a bit or not included like wireless charging, physical toggle switches, AMP power output, and # of USB-C ports & balanced audio jacks.

 

[botmann]

I agree that the best audiophile phone maybe at level of $500 ~ $1000 DACs. can not beat dacs beyond that range. And for driving IEM only, not for full side headphones.

I would have agreed with you a few years ago; however, not now. The dongle DAC market has exploded. ...

The truth is phone companies do not care about audio fidelity beyond Bluetooth codecs (as dictated by the mass market). ...

I don't necessarily disagree with either of you. The issue isn't they phone manufacturers don't care. It's the "mass" market doesn't care. As long as it sounds "good" to their ears. There is a reason Beats are popular headphones.

I would say codecs are more important for mass appeal over DACs in the phone because people do want to some good sound, but they want convenience over it.

The other issue, the masses are streaming their music with Spotify, YouTube and so forth. Not exactly the audiophile source material.

I know I'm guilty of using streaming services a lot. I do try to use their highest fidelity possible. When I'm out and about, I'm not really doing a critical listening. It's more does it sound "good [enough]" while I'm doing whatever it is.

 

[Results45]

Does anyone have any experience using the claimed 120db+ speakers on the Oukitel WP22 or Oukitel WP33 Pro?

I have been enjoying both the JBL Soundboost and the JBL Soundboost 2 speaker mods -- both around 80-85db -- on my Moto Z4 so far and I think mine have more richness and soundstage in comparison (based on YouTube audio) even if the Oukitels actually do cap out at a louder max volume.

How unwieldy would you guess the WP33 Pro is? Well it's almost 1.5X the size, 3.3X the thickness, and 3.5X the weight of the Xperia 10 IV. It's almost like the designers at Oukitel were like: "Hey that Energizer Battery Phone from a few years ago was pretty neat. Now let's make it 20% taller, 20% heavier, rugged, and cram the stinkiest speaker we can into it!"

Lastly I find it hilarious how energy inefficient the W33 Pro actually is despite it's huumungalodongus 22,000mAh battery since both the iPhone 15 Pro Max and Xiaomi Mi Max 3 can last or even outlast it with half the battery capacity.

Spoiler

source: Kimovil

source: Notebookcheck

.

 

[botmann]

I'm not sure in what regards you mean "unwieldy". Sound wise, I think it'll depend on volume. At that 120db kind of level, it's probably going to be way high pitched. Low to moderate, probably be ok. I wouldn't expect "audiophile" quality of sound from any phone speaker output. In that situation, it's about the DAC and any "tuning" they've done, and limit of space to speaker and what it's trying to project sound.

As to the size, it's probably not too bad. People are carrying foldable phones. You're not going to be placing it in small pockets. The biggest adjustment will be the phone's weight. I've had phones with very thick batteries and weight and it wasn't that bad.

 

[scarfacegt]

Sony Xperia 5 IV.

So this phone has aptx lossless?

 

[Tommyuk77]

Sony Xperia 5 IV.

So this phone has aptx lossless?

That's right

 

[kenniGT]

My Experience with Sony Experia (as I wanted to have good sounding phone and avoid buying DAP):
I had Experia 1 III, and after a year of use, phone started to loop into restart cycle, than randomly loosing signal, and again restarting randomly for no reason.
Full reset do not helped, tuning off finger scanner button also. After 2months I gave up and lost trust to Sony brand. This happened after some android updated and sony didn't provide any update.
Phone sound wise was good (something like my old fiio x3) but now I am back to Samsung S line and DAP.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

No issues with my Xperia 1 mk3 since 3 years, except the damage I've done to it. ^^
The weak link is the battery, ime.
Soundwise it is really good, but hasn't enough power to drive lots of headphones to loud levels.
Can listen to my FD7s with volume nearly maxed out without.
Not in any way a contest to my former V30 but enough to listen to music.

I've to say, that my main focus on the Xperia was the camera, not the power of the 3.5 output.

 

[kenniGT]

No issues with my Xperia 1 mk3 since 3 years, except the damage I've done to it. ^^
The weak link is the battery, ime.
Soundwise it is really good, but hasn't enough power to drive lots of headphones to loud levels.
Can listen to my FD7s with volume nearly maxed out without.
Not in any way a contest to my former V30 but enough to listen to music.

I've to say, that my main focus on the Xperia was the camera, not the power of the 3.5 output.

Maybe it is locally connected?
Here in UK, I jump on the train to central London, and phone was suddenly fighting for connection, on off on off, and suddenly black screen... Even replaced sim card, no help. Phone was even loosing normal connection when shopping... I could not write message... Now I have samsung s24, the same sim card, no issues. If that was connected to sim operater not a phone, that worst as means sony do not provide universal use.

I was driving iems only so no issue with power, and for travel listening it was good enough I have to say, just to kill time.

For camera you need patience with sony, lots of settings, and professional like options, very nice, but for most people too much. And was overheating fast, this was later solved a bit with software update.

 

[MountainMotor]

I still use my V30 but recently bought a Qudelix-5k to use with my S23 Ultra. The Qudelix has an impressive amount of audio customization from such a small cheap DAC.