[sicnesse]

I just got my Xperia 1V. The 3.5mm output honestly sounds pretty alright, just a bit sterile compared to any dongle, but still pretty much enjoyable

 

[NeonHD]

Brief comparison of devices I tried lately: LG V60, LG V50, Spectra X (portable usb dac), Qudelix 5k (portable bluetooth+usb dac), Meizu USB DAC Pro (portable usb dac), and my old devices: LG V30, Meizu Pro5 (HiFi Phone)
Compare in terms of: Bass quality, Fullness, Balance, Resolution and details



LG V60 (US hw model, US Cellular firmware)
Bass quality 10
- The best I have heard, very realistic. All types of drums sounds realistic and energetic. And able to move quite amount of air, never had this kind of experience with my all BA IEM (64 Audio U12).
Fullness and tone 10
- Full sounding from mids to lows, and tone is natural and realistic everywhere.
Balance 10
- From highs to lows are quite well balanced, satisfying and fits all music genres.
Resolution and details 9
- Maybe the highs could be more airy
Overall: a huge league above other LG hifi phones. And also better than other hifi phones, portable dacs.
Looks like the design of ES9219 works, based on ES9218 with extra circuit to remove the need of custom tuning. I am not a fan of custom tuning.
(attention: need to make sure the jack is in 'normal audio device mode'. more than 50% chance it detected my IEM as external device, and the sound is bad.)

LG V50 (V500N Korean model hw and firmware)
Bass quality 5
- Bass drum doesn't sound realistic. And there is an area of bass frequency that is blurred.
Fullness and tone 6
- Sound characteristic is like many Japanese portable audio devices. The mids and bass are not full, I don't know how to describe this, it sounds 'small and sweet', instead of 'big and bold'. I feel that the sound is intentionally tuned to be like this (to fit asian market?).
Balance 8
- Not bad, slightly bass light.
Resolution and details 9
- Very good resolution and details, except the area of blurred bass frequency. otherwise it will be 10.
Overall: the dac chip is good. the but the tuning is not for all audience, not for all types of music.

Spectra X
Bass quality 8
- The transparency and amount of bass is great. However kick drum lacks density and realistic-ness, I can hear it, but can not feel it.
Fullness and tone 9
- Great, full and warm. Not as 'energetic' and LG V60. Driving power is better than other phones and portable dacs.
Balance 10
- Great, enjoyable
Resolution and details 9
- Great.
Overall: the best portable usb dac I have tried. the only little issue is the density of an area of bass.

Qudelix 5k
Bass quality 9
- Great.
Fullness and tone 6
- Not full, on the lean side, especially in the lower mids area.
Balance 9
- Okay, on the lean side.
Resolution and details 10
- The best of all of these I have tried. So fast, so detailed!
Overall: maybe that's due to the limitation of power, as a battery powered small bluetooth device and need to have long operation time. It is a great device given the limitation. But not for me, if all portable bluetooth DACs are like this, then I will not buy any of them in the future.

Meizu USB DAC Pro
Bass quality 9
- Great.
Fullness and tone 9
- Great, and alot of driving power.
Balance 8
- A little bit too much bass
Resolution and details 7
- Not as detailed as others.
Overall: Main issue is detail,resolution, and a little bit too much bass. But given the price, it is the best value.

LG V30 (Tmobile edition, no special sound tuning)
Bass quality 9
- Great, but not as good as V60
Fullness and tone 8
- Good, but not as good as V60. V60 is more 'realistic' everywhere.
Balance 9
- Good, a little on the lean side.
Resolution and details 10
- Great, I tend to think it is more detailed and more airy than V60.
Overall: Without special tuning, the sound is better.

Meizu Pro5
Bass quality 9
- Great, but not as good as V60
Fullness and tone 9
- Great, but not as good as V60. V60 is more 'realistic' everywhere.
Balance 10
- Great
Resolution and details 9
- Great, not as good as V30
Overall: Very good. I like it more than all other phones, except V60.

Side notes:
I have tried several phones with 'big audio brand' tuning, including LG V20 B&O edition, LG V50 (Meridian tuned), Meridian USB DAC, Meizu Pro5 special firmware versions which has audio algorithms tuned by 'famous musicians'.
After some time I either returned / sold them, or flashed firmware back to 'stock' edition. Because the sound got special unnatural treatments here and there, make the device not suitable for all types of musics and headphones.
I don't know why, I can only guess, these big brands or musicians have their special types of favorite music, and their special headphones. they tuned the dac based on their special artistic perspective.

I guess this is where the "our ears are subjective" saying comes in, because I honestly can't see the V30 getting a 10 in the resolution and details department. When I upgraded from the V30 to the V35 and LG G7, both of these phones sounded better in the aforementioned department. I suspect it is because of the SoC upgrade.

Speaking of which, the V35 and G7 are definitely worth considering, that is if you can still find them. I bought mines from Aliexpress, but I don't even know if there are still listings on there. Both phones have become my favorite DAPs.

 

[Brain Damage]

I guess this is where the "our ears are subjective" saying comes in, because I honestly can't see the V30 getting a 10 in the resolution and details department. When I upgraded from the V30 to the V35 and LG G7, both of these phones sounded better in the aforementioned department. I suspect it is because of the SoC upgrade.

Speaking of which, the V35 and G7 are definitely worth considering, that is if you can still find them. I bought mines from Aliexpress, but I don't even know if there are still listings on there. Both phones have become my favorite DAPs.

The V30 and G7 have exactly the same ESS DAC chip (ES9218P). The only difference is that B&O tuned the V30 and Meridian tuned the G7 and V40. So it's more than likely the difference in tuning that you prefer.

 

[Results45]

Okay here's the final catalog for 2023. My recommendation? Anything with insane battery life to handle the extra power drain from an external dongle DAC-AMP if you find the internal DAC to not be good enough for your ears.

Just over 300 models across 34 brands released over the past 5 years:

If Fairphone, Shiftphone, Framework, or some Linux Phone brand ever release an open source 7"-12" expandable (foldable-rollable-both) with endomodular components I would love to just mod it and swap in some of the best components from the many smartphones in my collection:

• cameras from my P20 Pro
• microSD or dual-sim slot & tray
• the internal DAC-AMP from my LG V50
• Moto-mod attachment rear panel from my Moto Z4
• 3.5mm headphone jack (or two? or balanced?) from a broken phone or old dongle

P.S. a little something else I've been compiling throughout 2023

Spoiler

"Laptops from each CPU/APU brand with more than 11 hours of battery life efficiency percentages" for 2023:

> AMD: 81.3% (26 of 32 SKUs)
> Intel: 73.5% (25 of 34 SKUs)
> Apple: 100% (18 of 18 SKUs)

> All CPU/APU brands: 82% (69 of 84 SKUs with 10hrs+ of battery life)

https://www.notebookcheck.net/index...&specs[]=334928&specs[]=342277&specs[]=342161

.

 

[NeonHD]

The V30 and G7 have exactly the same ESS DAC chip (ES9218P). The only difference is that B&O tuned the V30 and Meridian tuned the G7 and V40. So it's more than likely the difference in tuning that you prefer.

Does the SoC not affect the sound output though? It also comes down to ROM difference. From my experience different ROMs alter the tuning in different ways. But I guess that only applies if you're into ROM flashing.

 

[Karloff]

Admittedly, I didn't read many of the preceding 340+ posts, pages but this entire thread appears to be a bit silly.
For the start, I am not entirely sure what an "audiophile" is. I'll assume though that it's a person with outstanding receptors (ears), perfect hearing of notes, generally extremely sensitive to anything acoustic, and a ton of money to spend to live up to it. Well, and possibly a music lover too.
As such, no phone ever will deliver!
Closest I could think off is strapping a top-shelve DAC to a phone (iBasso D16?), combining it with top-shelve balanced head phones and hoping that the environment noise is low, because noise-cancelling is obviously not an audiophile thing.
Otherwise, don't sweat it and use an ifi Go Blue.
Or sweat it even less and get a decent pair of bluetooth IEMs.

 

[Warfront1]

Admittedly, I didn't read many of the preceding 340+ posts, pages but this entire thread appears to be a bit silly.
For the start, I am not entirely sure what an "audiophile" is. I'll assume though that it's a person with outstanding receptors (ears), perfect hearing of notes, generally extremely sensitive to anything acoustic, and a ton of money to spend to live up to it. Well, and possibly a music lover too.
As such, no phone ever will deliver!
Closest I could think off is strapping a top-shelve DAC to a phone (iBasso D16?), combining it with top-shelve balanced head phones and hoping that the environment noise is low, because noise-cancelling is obviously not an audiophile thing.
Otherwise, don't sweat it and use an ifi Go Blue.
Or sweat it even less and get a decent pair of bluetooth IEMs.

It isn't as simple as just using a USB DAC.
You have to make sure the USB standard and PD is to the proper level and implemented appropriately.
If you get really unlucky you can have a situation were the DAC won't even power on.
Typically you would just see less power which typically just results in a lower maximum dB output or random disconnects.

Beyond that it is nice to have a phone with a large amount of storage, preferably an microSD Card for upgrades/swaps.
But to circle back to the core of your post, you can get really good quality from some of these older "audiophile" grade phones.
To your point, the newer USB DACs do sound great and the innovation in that space has been awesome.
However, it is just super convenient to have an on board DAC/AMP that is just always ready to go.
You don't need to worry about having another cable, device, disconnects, etc.
It would surprise you how good some of these $50 and lower old used "audiophile" smartphones sound.

Unfortunately your take on the matter is likely why we are in such a bad spot currently.
You aren't alone in thinking that this is all silly, which is why we have the majority of everyone using devices like AirPods.
It is so hard to land a Bluetooth product correctly as the transmission mechanism is immediately worse than wired.
Assuming you implement that perfectly you have to do the DAC conversion on board, and then power it cleanly.
To land all of that perfectly at a decent price is nearly impossible which is why there is so much Bluetooth junk out there.

 

[Karloff]

It isn't as simple as just using a USB DAC.
You have to make sure the USB standard and PD is to the proper level and implemented appropriately.
If you get really unlucky you can have a situation were the DAC won't even power on.
Typically you would just see less power which typically just results in a lower maximum dB output or random disconnects.

Beyond that it is nice to have a phone with a large amount of storage, preferably an microSD Card for upgrades/swaps.
But to circle back to the core of your post, you can get really good quality from some of these older "audiophile" grade phones.
To your point, the newer USB DACs do sound great and the innovation in that space has been awesome.
However, it is just super convenient to have an on board DAC/AMP that is just always ready to go.
You don't need to worry about having another cable, device, disconnects, etc.
It would surprise you how good some of these $50 and lower old used "audiophile" smartphones sound.

Unfortunately your take on the matter is likely why we are in such a bad spot currently.
You aren't alone in thinking that this is all silly, which is why we have the majority of everyone using devices like AirPods.
It is so hard to land a Bluetooth product correctly as the transmission mechanism is immediately worse than wired.
Assuming you implement that perfectly you have to do the DAC conversion on board, and then power it cleanly.
To land all of that perfectly at a decent price is nearly impossible which is why there is so much Bluetooth junk out there.

What I meant to say is that I don’t believe that there are any “audiophile grade” phones out there. Not that I have tried that many, but judging from my old iPhones with analog plug, at least two older Android phones and literally any PC or Mac in 30 years that I have plugged headphones into (and that did not have a good, dedicated sound card), I must say that I have a hard time believing that there is such a thing as an audiophile phone.

I am not blaming the manufacturers. A good D/A chip is expensive, and it’s not enough to just plop a fancy chip into the circuits. Plus, most people would not even recognize the difference.

As for Bluetooth – I just bought a pair of Final ZE3000 earbuds and they’re surprisingly good. Yes, if I plug my Dac-Amp into the phone and some good over the ear phones the sound is better, but the inconvenience of that extra plugged in device spoils all the fun for me. And I am pretty sure that these BT earbuds still sound better than an old phone with a 3.5mm plug.

Dunno, maybe I am wrong. I have a feeling this is an area where opinion is a major factor.

 

[reverbhifi]

Audio is a very subjective thing my use case is enjoying my CDs on the go with as close as possible dynamics within my reasonable budget. HTC10 was a good start and then followed it with the LG G5 with the BO module tucked in full-time - that helped me listen to my converted CDs in FLAC. I then had a stint with Samsung A90 and a USB DAC (Sonata HD and some others) but the challenge is: dongle life coupled with app inconsistency - for example when using UAPP it surpasses android driver but that also means when I get a call I have to unplug to disengage UAPP audio - major pain. I then moved to Vivo Nex S which took things up a notch with it's great DAC and tuning. Problem was the Next doesn't support UAPP and Qobuz in Hifi mode so had to find workarounds like playing a blank MP3 to trigger an MP3. I then ordered an LG G8X but unfortunately it's not a great phone - also the Quad DAC implementation is inferior to Vivo. My last adventure has been the most complete - a Vivo X90 Pro global edition with no headphone jack but supports analog audio via USB C utilizing a built in CS43131 that now supports Qobuz and UAPP in Hifi mode an analog dongle is cheap, very light, doesn't consume battery and also means I can use UAPP without disengaging the dongle every time I get a call. Trust me it's like having a +100 USD dongle DAC built in to your phone - you don't like it use another dongle no worries but all phone manufacturers should do that if there is enough momentum in the market. If a flagship phone doesn't have a flagship DAC that's a major shortcoming in my opinion.

 

[yfei]

What I meant to say is that I don’t believe that there are any “audiophile grade” phones out there. Not that I have tried that many, but judging from my old iPhones with analog plug, at least two older Android phones and literally any PC or Mac in 30 years that I have plugged headphones into (and that did not have a good, dedicated sound card), I must say that I have a hard time believing that there is such a thing as an audiophile phone.

I am not blaming the manufacturers. A good D/A chip is expensive, and it’s not enough to just plop a fancy chip into the circuits. Plus, most people would not even recognize the difference.

As for Bluetooth – I just bought a pair of Final ZE3000 earbuds and they’re surprisingly good. Yes, if I plug my Dac-Amp into the phone and some good over the ear phones the sound is better, but the inconvenience of that extra plugged in device spoils all the fun for me. And I am pretty sure that these BT earbuds still sound better than an old phone with a 3.5mm plug.

Dunno, maybe I am wrong. I have a feeling this is an area where opinion is a major factor.

all depends on the definition of "audiophile grade".
if audiophile grade means truely great dacs like MSB DAC, then that's right, there is no audiophile grade phones.
if audiophile grade starts from $500 level usb dongles, like Chord Mojo, Dragonfly Cobalt, then there are audiophile grade phones that are equal or better than these.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

all depends on the definition of "audiophile grade".
if audiophile grade means truely great dacs like MSB DAC, then that's right, there is no audiophile grade phones.
if audiophile grade starts from $500 level usb dongles, like Chord Mojo, Dragonfly Cobalt, then there are audiophile grade phones that are equal or better than these.

I just read about the MSB DACs for the first time. I am actually amazed that their are even DACs that are this expensive available for sale.

 

[Karloff]

@reverbhifi
Interesting insights, thank you. When it's time to replace my DAC, I'll check here again for a "Digital Audio Player". Being able to pick up the player without some nasty DAC box attached to it, is a big deal. And it sounds like it's possible to get some very solid quality out of it, which is where I am typically at.

@yfei
That a phone can beat any DAC below $10,000 seems, well, concerning at least. It would mean that all other DAC makers are pretty much selling snake oil. And while I think that there is a good share of snake oil out there, I still believe that there are some solid levels in price and quality in between. Or maybe it would be adequate to pair a smart phone integrated DAC with a pair of $5000 headphones ....? Someone please tell me.

 

[yfei]

@reverbhifi
Interesting insights, thank you. When it's time to replace my DAC, I'll check here again for a "Digital Audio Player". Being able to pick up the player without some nasty DAC box attached to it, is a big deal. And it sounds like it's possible to get some very solid quality out of it, which is where I am typically at.

@yfei
That a phone can beat any DAC below $10,000 seems, well, concerning at least. It would mean that all other DAC makers are pretty much selling snake oil. And while I think that there is a good share of snake oil out there, I still believe that there are some solid levels in price and quality in between. Or maybe it would be adequate to pair a smart phone integrated DAC with a pair of $5000 headphones ....? Someone please tell me.

I agree that the best audiophile phone maybe at level of $500 ~ $1000 DACs. can not beat dacs beyond that range. And for driving IEM only, not for full side headphones.

 

[yfei]

I just read about the MSB DACs for the first time. I am actually amazed that their are even DACs that are this expensive available for sale.

There are many DACs at that price range, e.g. dCS, Esoteric,... But MSB is the most realistic one, maybe the ONLY realistic one. Other DACs are stunning, ear-catching, wow the audience. There are ear-catching DACs in all price ranges.
While MSB is the opposite, at first listen, it is soft, nothing special, but after a while people realize it is so natural and realistic.

 

[Brain Damage]

I agree that the best audiophile phone maybe at level of $500 ~ $1000 DACs. can not beat dacs beyond that range. And for driving IEM only, not for full side headphones.

I would have agreed with you a few years ago; however, not now. The dongle DAC market has exploded. IMHO, to say that an audiophile phone beats the Cayin RU6 and RU7 which are around £250 is ridiculous. I say the RU6 and RU7 because I have them; however, many would add a host of other dongle DAC amps (most of which are even cheaper than the Cayins) to the list that outperform audiophile phones including:

iBasso DC03 PRO
iBasso DC04 PRO
Aune Yuki
Hiby FC6
Tanchjim Space

The truth is phone companies do not care about audio fidelity beyond Bluetooth codecs (as dictated by the mass market). Audiophiles represent a niche market: this niche is even smaller in the smartphone community hence LG pulled out. And let's face it, they were the last to create amazing integrated DACs in their V--series smartphones. But that was a few years ago now and dongle DACs have taken portable audiophile listening to the next level - beyond smartphone capabilities. And there are so many different implementations and configurations, not too mention some with discrete components; rendering audiophile smartphones a thing of the past.