[NamelessPFG]

I've done a bit of reading around, and it seems that if I want the ultimate in soundstage and imaging (mostly for gaming, but generally excellent sound quality wouldn't hurt for music, either), I'm going to have to try out some electrostatic headphones...when I can afford them. Stax isn't cheap. Neither is the Koss ESP-950, for that matter.
 
But the vintage gear apparently holds up very well, even today, and I could save several hundred by buying vintage Stax when the time comes, both the earspeakers and a driver (likely the cheap transformer/energizer SRD variety). Problem is, I'm still not thoroughly informed on all their offerings and can't pick through all the audiophile adjectives at times.
 
First thing first: I want circumaural. Most comfortable that way. I know the Lambda and Omega lines are, but imagine my surprise when a bit of research on the SR-X Mark III mentioned they were supra-aural...they certainly looked big enough to be circumaural, at least going by Internet pictures! Shame, since the SR-X is one of the more affordable Stax options. (Heck, for around $180 shipped, someone on eBay scored an SRD-7 and two SR-X series earspeakers!)
 
I also glimpsed some SR-5s (which have since been sold), but while they look circumaural, I certainly thought the same of the SR-X Mark III, which is also said to sound better than the SR-5s. Great, a tradeoff between comfort and sound quality...not an easy one. (Some say that getting any pair of working Stax is already starting near the top, though.)
 
Some say the electrets are the best entry-level option for getting to know what the electrostat sound is like, but the sound quality is supposedly much inferior. Figures that the electrostats are also that much more expensive.
 
Now, as for the driver units...cheaper SRD-series energizers meant to be fed with speaker amps ARE an option, since I do have a couple of old receivers lying around, boxed up, unused, that should be able to drive them. I would prefer an SRM-series amplifier if not for the cost. It's still said that the proper amplifiers deliver better sound quality than the transformers/energizers even with the same earspeakers, though.
 
At this rate, it looks like I better save up $500 for the next time I see a set of SR-Lambdas or their numerous deriatives...and add on another $100 or more for a driver (an SRD-series energizer, at that). I'd hope to keep the total system cost at $300 or less, but if it's not possible at current prices, so be it. They don't tell new folks here "Sorry about your wallet!" for nothing...

 

[xaval]

Quote:

 
Now, as for the driver units...cheaper SRD-series energizers meant to be fed with speaker amps ARE an option, since I do have a couple of old receivers lying around, boxed up, unused, that should be able to drive them. I would prefer an SRM-series amplifier if not for the cost. It's still said that the proper amplifiers deliver better sound quality than the transformers/energizers even with the same earspeakers, though.
 
At this rate, it looks like I better save up $500 for the next time I see a set of SR-Lambdas or their numerous deriatives...and add on another $100 or more for a driver (an SRD-series energizer, at that). I'd hope to keep the total system cost at $300 or less, but if it's not possible at current prices, so be it. They don't tell new folks here "Sorry about your wallet!" for nothing...

Lambdas are the way to go. Those smal SR-X series and the like, although not sounding bad, they aren't world class performers. If strapped for cash just save up for an old Lambda. If you just want to take a sense of how a stat sounds try and demo a pair. You should get the message right in less than 10 minutes, for better or worse.
 
I highlighted that sentence because it's not quite true. A good stat amp will perform great and there are quite a few, just not for your budget I'm afraid. As for the SRD series energizers, most are quite good at what they're supposed to do. The added bonus is that they will "read" the amp behind them. I use a Jadis DA-60, a top tier tube integrated amp (although a bit vintage already), and that glorious sound passes on to the Lambdas. I've got a few mid priced amps and there's a world of a difference on the sound they transmit. A great amp with an energizer will pay off.
 
As for soundstage, don't ever expect too much out of a headphone. If it has to happen, let yourself be surprised... specially if you listen to loudspeakers. As for imaging, you can expect that from a Stax and it will deliver. I think the most amazing characteristic of my Stax rig, besides that almost perfect midrange is the effortlessness and dynamics they can provide - these two are so obvious that those 10 minutes I suggested will either sell you a Stax rig or... not.
 
 
 

 

[NamelessPFG]

I'll see if I can find anyone nearby who has a Stax setup I could audition for a bit. That would help immensely with figuring out if the electrostat sound is what I'm looking for. (Only problem is, it's not exactly practical to lug a desktop tower everywhere as a source, so gaming performance would have to wait until I can outright buy a pair. My notebook can feed it with music, though.)
 
So the SRD transformers/energizers aren't bad or anything? That's reassuring to hear. Most of what I see are SRD-6, SRD-7 (normal bias only), or SRD-X (normal bias only). Not sure where they stand as far as quality goes, but I doubt they're the exceptions to your statement. (I wonder what they'd sound like if fed by my stepfather's beloved Sansui 8080DB? Don't have any speaker amps better than that around here...)
 
Soundstage-wise, I'm not too obsessed about it being huge, just big enough to make the imaging more convincing. At least you say it'll deliver on the imaging and then some. (Better than the AD700, possibly even the K 701/702 or Pro 900? Only one way to find out.)
 
I guess I'm pinching my pennies for a Lambda and an affordable SRD driver (if it isn't bundled) to start out with. If it turns out I don't like them, I know there will be buyers.

 

[Cheeznuklz]

I would be very thankful if you could keep this thread updated with your search and impressions.  I feel as if I'm in roughly the same camp financially (interested but slightly apprehensive).  The occasional whispers of Stax brilliance make me want to buy, but the lack of auditionability and the need for a transformer will probably keep me at bay for another few months.

 

[deadlylover]

I'd personally be on the hunt for any of the Lambda type stat's and whatever amp or energizer you can find. Try stick to pro bias so your upgrade path will still be open, but it's not a big deal if you can get a sweet deal on anything normal bias seeing as how you can probably resell it without too much trouble.
 
Lambda's have a nice soundstage indeed. My first stat was that basic system they still had for about $500 new a couple of years ago, and my previous headphone was the AD700 and AD900. Yeah, it was pretty much a complete evisceration. If you're ok with the weightlessness of the stat sound, you'll probably enjoy them.

 

[MayaTlab]

If I read correctly, your budget is around 600 or so. For a little over that budget you can get a Stax 2170 new, imported from Japan. Could be interesting to look at, even though I don't know how it compares to vintage Stax. All I know is that it's very competitive in its price range against similarly priced dynamics + amp.
 
EDIT : Sorry, I read incorrectly. Forget about that then .

 

[BrucYSN]

To OP: 
I'm not exactly sure if that's wise way to start ur audiophile journey lol, When I start my current rigs, I had options to get a decent setup of Omega 2 and actually save 1 or 2k  $ or even go for the sr-009( although they were still prototypes back than). The thing is, besides the sr-009, all my dynamic hps are performing absolutely in the same level as the O2, and in addition I got the extra choices as each of my headphones is considered better than O2 in certain type of music. Although it's really up to you that if you wanna a one big all around-er or specified. But for entry level, there wasn't much things about all around-er, since at this level stats's advantage is not that obvious and ur upgrades are gonna always sounds somewhat similar since ur options are limited. 
However, if you took the path with dynamic you are facing many many different choice as many headphone could sounds completely different and perform equally well. Besides, the dynamics are much easier to get access to than finding vintages. So if I were you I'd stick with dynamics, and wait till i have more than 10k to spare before I consider the static phones. 
 

 

[NamelessPFG]

You're talking about the Omega 2s, though. Flagship earspeakers bound to cost at least $1,800 used, sans driver. Word is that they have a very different sound signature from the various Lambda deriatives (and, yes, I know that sounds confusing when even different Lambda designs have varying sound signatures) and are also rather difficult to drive...not to mention priced way out of my reach, even moreso than a typical Lambda setup is right now. To be frank, I don't think I'd ever spend that much on audio equipment, or even video equipment.
 
I'm not ruling out dynamics entirely as a future upgrade path, but I suppose it's the exotic nature of electrostatics that makes me really curious as to how different they sound from conventional dynamic drivers, especially since I've never even heard them in action. Not everybody likes them, but those who do love them to death.
 
This I do know, though-whatever I go to next has to be a significant step up from the AD700s overall (but especially in imaging, if that's even possible), and from what I've read, I don't think I can expect that unless spending $300+ on headphones alone (AKG K 701/702 or Ultrasone Pro 900 for dynamics, given how lauded they are in a certain gaming headphone thread), not including amplifier should the X-Fi Forte's integrated headphone amp be inadequate or incompatible.
 
Also, keep in mind that while I can't just go rush out and buy a new setup now, I like to weigh my options as far as planning purchases in the future, and if I decide I really want to find out how much better it gets than the AD700s, I'll pinch every penny for the next month or two if that's what it takes to afford such an upgrade.

 

[n3rdling]

I started out in a very similar situation to your own.  I was looking for a nice set of headphones for gaming, found some AD500s on the cheap and liked what I heard.  I was curious and kept reading various forums about headphones.  A few months later I upgraded to the DT880 and liked them for gaming but they were less involving than the ATs for music.  Some months after that I started to read about Stax heaphones and was very curious to hear a Lambda model since they were highly lauded for both music and gaming.  I got a Lambda Signature and couldn't believe how much better they were than the dynamic I had.  The DT880 got about 15 minutes of use in the next year until I sold them.  I was hooked to the Stax sound and have since grown a collection of the various models.  
 
One of the many positives to Stax is that they are always sought after, so selling them off later is pretty easy and you won't lose much, if any, money in doing so.  You have a few options but I'd recommend either finding a used 2020/2050 system or a used Stax SR Lambda and something to drive it with.  The first recommendation is pretty simple - they aren't too expensive and should be a very nice system for the money.  The second option is a little more complicated and can be cheaper or more expensive than the 2050 depending on which path you take.  You can get the SRD6 transformer box to drive the Lambda and this will be pretty inexpensive but your upgrade path in the future will be limited or at least require an extra step.  This is because the SRD6 is strictly normal bias (as is the SR Lambda).  I say an extra step because all you'd have to do if you wanted to upgrade in the future is to just sell the SRD6 with the Lambda and then buy a new transformer/energizer with a pro bias jack to drive whatever new Stax you upgrade to.  The Lambda with SRD6 goes for about $225-300 on the used market but can be hard to get.  If you want to buy an energizer instead that'd be a nice sonic upgrade but it'd cost you an extra couple hundred dollars for something like the SRM-1.
 
For FPS (competitive) gaming, the Lambdas are almost unbeatable unless you want to spend thousands on a SR Omega or O2, etc.  For music you won't find any headphones in the price range that touch those normal bias Lambdas.  There are many people who prefer them to many of the top dynamic headphones and for many genres of music I'd agree with them.  They are much faster, more detailed, more effortless, and clearer than anything even near their price range.  I think you'll like them a lot.

 

[maverickronin]

Not to threadjack, but I'm thinking about something like this too.  I've heard different Lambdas before and I really loved some of them and didn't like others at all, but since they all looked so similar I'm not sure which ones I liked.  Some were too bright, and others weren't.
 
Which Lambdas are the darkest, or at least the least bright?

 

[Oberst Oswald]

I use the STAX in my sig for gaming and found them always enjoyable.  What they don't do well is the very heavy explosions which will, I'll use the words, "break up".  A perfect example is when the atomic bomb goes off in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare.  They could not handle this where as the Denon D-7000's with the MiniMAX had no problem.  The Denons with the Beta 22 in Dead Space 2 is just awesome.  What I'm basically trying to say here is don't overlook a good dynamic setup for gaming bliss.  The STAX are the best for hearing the slightest detail (try the Marine mission in Aliens vs Predator 2) and they will blow you away except for them certain, but not all, bass heavy stuff like rocket engines, explosions and big crashes. It is very annoying when the "break up" occurs  and really takes the fun factor out of the game because you will expect it to happen...  Don't know if the newer or better Stax headphones/amps will have this issue but in your case, since you are on a low budget, this will be a heads up for you so you won't be too disappointed. The open nature of Stax will surely bother other people in the house if used for gaming which is the major reason I also went with the closed Denon.  My advice is to wait for a STAX setup for gaming until you have more money and spend as much as necessary for a kick ass gaming system.  If for music... than a vintage STAX system will be well worth your effort to find & buy and I'm sure you'll be hooked on electrostatics for purchase in the future. 

 

[NamelessPFG]

Open-back isn't a problem. If anything, that makes other people in the house LESS annoyed with me because it's easier for me to hear when they're calling me from upstairs. I'm also the only one in the computer room most of the time. That said, I wouldn't rule out closed-back cans, but the majority of Stax are open save for one or two models I've glimpsed (and they appear to use Lambda-esque drivers, judging from the rectangular shape).
 
I wasn't expecting bass to be the strong point, given how electrostatics can't move air like dynamics can. But as for the actual sound quality, it's said to be very good-you just can't feel it. But chances are they're more likely to let you hear it without some crazy EQ, unlike the AD700s.
 
Both the SR-Lambda and the D-7000 work excellently with CMSS-3D Headphone, I take it? (Your sig does mention an X-Fi.) Works wonders with the AD700s, that's for sure (in fact, that's why I bought them), and I can still get the directional cues with other headphones to a lesser extent.
 
I do my fair share of music listening as well, but my tastes are fairly eclectic and all over the place, be it game music (some of which is old enough to fall in the "chiptune" category) or the usual bands and music artists of various genres. Nothing I prefer is extremely bass-centric, though, which is probably why the AD700 sound signature doesn't disturb me much (and thus why I think I'd like electrostatics even without extra-strong bass).
 
Oh, and one more question: which used market in question are you getting these $225-300 figures for an SR-Lambda with SRD-6 or SRD-7? It certainly isn't eBay, and Atlanta craigslist yields even less. Perhaps it's the B/S/T section on this very forum?

 

[Oberst Oswald]

In my setup with the Stax using the Travagan's Red amp is not the bass in general...bass is good.  It's the distortion that happens in the loud lower extremes.  Recommend looking for the high voltage models anyway for the normal bias maybe the cause of the issues I'm experiencing. 
 
I got the headphones new (and they are still in great shape now) in the early 1980's for @ $500.00 +/- so I don't know the going price now but "$225-300" seems about right depending on condition.  They come up fairly often in the Head Fi for sale section.  Happy hunting...
 

 

[n3rdling]

 
Quote:

 
Oh, and one more question: which used market in question are you getting these $225-300 figures for an SR-Lambda with SRD-6 or SRD-7? It certainly isn't eBay, and Atlanta craigslist yields even less. Perhaps it's the B/S/T section on this very forum?

Just the US used market in general.  FS forums here, ebay, craigslist, audiogon.  This is over the past 3 or so years.  The SRD7 costs a bit more than the SRD6 and the SR Lambda is the cheapest of the used Lambdas.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Hmmm...I've found some Lambda Pros for $290 + shipping, possibly a bit lower. Could be a good starting point at a relatively low price, and they're Pro bias, making current driver units an option.
 
The downsides? That one isn't bundled with a driver unit at all (added cost on top of that), and there's some mention of "inner reticulating foam" that rotted out and had to be removed. I have no idea what purpose that bit of foam is supposed to serve. But the pictures of the earspeakers themselves don't suggest anything wrong...
 
If I were to go for that one, what would be a nice, low-cost driver unit with a Pro bias jack?