[Chris J]

   
 
AH, gotcha. I know what a Stax system is, I just didn't read that part lol. Alright, interested in your possible conclusion on how they compare in sound signature.

 
And now for a change of pace...
Just in the middle of running thru some comparisons of the Caiman II's headphone jack vs. a separate desktop headphone amp.
Round One
The Caiman II headphone jack >>>>> a pair of AKG Q701 'phones 
vs:
Caiman II Line Out >>>>> Matrix Quattro headphone amp >>>>> AKG Q701 'phones.
The Matrix Quattro headphone sells for approx. $400.
It can be used to drive either single ended or balanced headphones.
 
Both sources were set to the same SPL using pink noise and an SPL meter.
The Q701 are an open style headphone of medium efficiency, average impedance is 62 Ohms.
They are not a difficult load for either the Caiman's headphone jack or the Matrix Quattro amp.
My Q701 are wired single ended, I used the stock headphone cable. My Q701 are completely stock, i.e. they do not have the bass mod.
 
And the winner of Round One?
The Matrix has a slightly airier, fuller sound than the Caiman's headphone jack. 
The Matrix has a warmer, more relaxed presentation.
Brushes on drums and cymbals have a more tactile feel to them, vocals sound warmer, more natural.
Transients have a touch more snap to them, saxophones sound fuller.
The Caiman's headphone jack by comparison has a slightly etched treble, a slightly deader soundscape and a touch more of a mechanical sound to it. Saxophones have slightly kazoo-ish sound to them.
 
Round Two:
I also tried the Caiman II headphone jack >>>> Audio Technica ATH-ESW9 headphones
vs.
The Caiman II Line Out >>>> Matrix Quattro headphone amp >>>> Audio Technica ATH-ESW9 headphones.
 
The ATH-ESW9 are a closed style, high efficiency headphone with wooden cups and a 42 Ohm impedance.
Relatively speaking, they are a warmer sound pair of headphones than the AKG.
The ATH-ESW9 are wired single ended, they are completely stock.
Again, both sources were set to the same SPL via pink noise and an SPL meter.
 
Took me a while to get a grip on this one, but eventually I found that I preferred the Quattro over the Caiman's own headphone jack for the same reasons I preferred the Quattro over the Caiman II's headphone jack when driving the Q701s.
The only downside the Quattro had was on bass heavy songs: the ATH-ESW9's bass can be a bit overwhelming when the Quattro is used. But ultimately I preferred the Quattro, as it's the superior treble and midrange gave a more balanced relaxed presentation.  
 
Conclusion:
Can't say there is a massive difference in sound between the two headphone jacks, but there it is; I'll take the Matrix Quattro over the Caiman's II headphone jack due to the greater musicality of the Quattro.

 

[DreamKing]

@Chris J, thanks for your findings! Even though I don't bother with the HP out of either the Bushmaster 2 or the Caiman2. 
 
 
I'm enjoying the HE-560 I got last week a ton more than the K550 out of the Capella + BMK2 and not just for the technical performance gain but for the sound signature as well. The HE-560 has a 4khz peak from response graphs but I don't hear that in my setup. High mids aren't too forward at all and there is no sibilance. Just smooth neutral sound with robust body. Many people hear sibilance out of certain amps and not just because of the source, glad that doesn't exist in my case.
 
Way better sound with the HE-560 especially since the K550 is already bright and lean so matching it with the BMK2 which is considered somewhat bright and lean wasn't a good pairing. I managed to enjoy the sound anyway but it could get fatiguing quickly. I can listen to the current setup all day with no fatigue.
 
I'm still planning on getting the Caiman 2 for the better overall performance and pre-amp feature so I will be able to see if there is a slight difference in sound signature while paired it with the Capella.

 

[Argo Duck]

+1 re Chris J's findings. Very useful and nice to see this thread. It reminds me just how good the Bushmaster - and evidently Caiman - series is, especially as DACs.

 

[Lohb]

I know this is primarily a BM2 thread but some talk of CM 2......have any of the CM2 owners noticed any clicks/pops on 16/44 or 24/96 content... ?
I had issues previously using cheap USB to optical convertor with random noise when no music playing on 24/96 content....however, if I pick one up I would be using coaxial and 16/44 content only now. I'm just worried if I get one this noise issue will crop up again on CM2 and not a big fan of international returns costs...!

 

[Sorrodje]

I encoutered some noïse/clicks and pops too . but it was with a cheap usb converter.  why don't you use the embedded USB of the Caïman ? 

 

[mkrzych]

  I know this is primarily a BM2 thread but some talk of CM 2......have any of the CM2 owners noticed any clicks/pops on 16/44 or 24/96 content... ?
I had issues previously using cheap USB to optical convertor with random noise when no music playing on 24/96 content....however, if I pick one up I would be using coaxial and 16/44 content only now. I'm just worried if I get one this noise issue will crop up again on CM2 and not a big fan of international returns costs...!

I strongly recommend you to read my thread here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?35018-Caiman-MKII-check-if-you-hear-the-noise-please In my case, the solution was to upgrade to V6 SuperFirmware. Please contact Stan for this.
 
He also pointed that SuperFirmware may not work with all sources: http://theaudiostandard.net/post/30206/thread

 

[Lohb]

  I encoutered some noïse/clicks and pops too . but it was with a cheap usb converter.  why don't you use the embedded USB of the Caïman ? 

Going to use Teradak USB to Coaxial as I've read Coax supposed to be better for whatever geeky reason... !
 

  I strongly recommend you to read my thread here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?35018-Caiman-MKII-check-if-you-hear-the-noise-please In my case, the solution was to upgrade to V6 SuperFirmware. Please contact Stan for this.
 
He also pointed that SuperFirmware may not work with all sources: http://theaudiostandard.net/post/30206/thread

EXCELLENT....give that man a 

 
I've held off for months on buying the Caiman Mk 2 after reading your thread before....and was looking at old school R2R's due to fear I'd have the same issues with CM2 as I had with BM2..so basically the digital noise with silent passages /music not playing on BM2 was a firmware problem when interfacing with OSX using 24/96......

 

[mkrzych]

  Going to use Teradak USB to Coaxial as I've read Coax supposed to be better for whatever geeky reason... !
 
EXCELLENT....give that man a 

 
I've held off for months on buying the Caiman Mk 2 after reading your thread before....and was looking at old school R2R's due to fear I'd have the same issues with CM2 as I had with BM2..so basically the digital noise with silent passages /music not playing on BM2 was a firmware problem when interfacing with OSX using 24/96......

Possibly, but I can say only about CMII, since I don't have BMII.

 

[Lohb]

Same problem/same system/ same DAC company...I'd guess so...

 

[Sorrodje]

  Going to use Teradak USB to Coaxial as I've read Coax supposed to be better for whatever geeky reason... !
 
 

 
OK. In my experience , there's no problem with embedded USB and no more problem with My current Xmos based USB>SPDIF converter.  

 

[mkrzych]

  Same problem/same system/ same DAC company...I'd guess so...

Possibly, but AFAIK BMII has different DAC chip and does not have USB like CMII, so the PIC firmware is different I guess. Better to ask Stan. On my CMII with V6 firmware everything is better! I don't use USB, because after quite extensive listening it sound congested and loud, with heavy, not spaces sonics. Toslink in my case sounds much, much better from the late 2008 Macbook Unibody and its sound does not depends on the operating system, as I discovered using USB - plus of course natural, galvanic isolation from the computer noise.

 

[Lohb]

   
OK. In my experience , there's no problem with embedded USB and no more problem with My current Xmos based USB>SPDIF converter.  

You mean you here no SQ difference between USB/COAX ?

 

[Lohb]

  Possibly, but AFAIK BMII has different DAC chip and does not have USB like CMII, so the PIC firmware is different I guess. Better to ask Stan. On my CMII with V6 firmware everything is better!

OK, good enough to know as that is the target audio chain....same as yours almost.

 

[Sorrodje]

 
You mean you here no SQ difference between USB/COAX ?

 
I hear no more glitches .. I didn't compare carefully USB and OPT/COAX.. if there're differences, they should be subtle. 

 

[Lohb]

   
I hear no more glitches .. I didn't compare carefully USB and OPT/COAX.. if there're differences, they should be subtle. 

I think the BM2 problem was OSX 24/96 dependent.....