[10068]

No matter what "progressive" or "avant garde" music I listen to, it still seems like the basslines are simple crap that a no-talent teenager could play. Occaisionally I hear a punk band or something where the bass player actually sounds like they're playing an instrument (instead of plucking the same note every 2 seconds forever), but it's rare.

Even whilst listening to bands like Tool, Dream Theater, etc, I find myself going "wow, where's the bassline?" because it's so simple that it drifts and dissapears right into the mix.

 

[viator122]

Well, first off, the bass is not an instrument that's usually used to play "chords" in the 6-string guitar sense. It's usually not strummed.

I agree that with no-talent acts the bass playing can be quite lame, but listen to Les Claypool from Primus, Mike Gordon from Phish, John Entwistle from The Who or Victor Wooten from Bela Fleck and the Flecktones and you'll see what good bass playing adds to music.

I think that generally, though, that in rock music the bass lines tend to be simpler just because they can. In rock, the instruments you notice first (for most people, I assume) are the guitar/vocals, drums, bass. The bass doesn't draw attention to itself the same way the guitar does, so it doesn't have to be as complex.

 

[Ozric]

The bass is an instrument which is meant to be the bedrock foundation, musically speaking, of any band. The most important feat to be accomplished is groove, swing and playing "in the pocket" above all else. Substance before flash.

Yet, to pigeonhole all bass players as playing lines that are "simple crap that a no-talent teenager could play" is not well-informed, to say the least. In addition to the phenomenal talents of bassists already mentioned, I recommend you check out work by Gary Willis with Tribal Tech, Jaco Pastorius with Weather Report and Billy Sheehan with Steve Vai, and report back to me when your local Guitar Center bass-god-wannabe teenager can play their lines

Yes, often bass parts suffer the ignominy of being buried in the mix, but with some bands, the producer/engineer gives the instrument the attention it deserves. Like with Rush, for example. Even McCartney's lines with the Beatles, while simple, are hardly simplistic.

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek No matter what "progressive" or "avant garde" music I listen to, it still seems like the basslines are simple crap that a no-talent teenager could play. Occaisionally I hear a punk band or something where the bass player actually sounds like they're playing an instrument (instead of plucking the same note every 2 seconds forever), but it's rare. Even whilst listening to bands like Tool, Dream Theater, etc, I find myself going "wow, where's the bassline?" because it's so simple that it drifts and dissapears right into the mix.

Off the top of my head, try Phil Lesh or Jack Cassady or Tony Levin for rock, and Charles Mingus for jazz.

 

[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric The bass is an instrument which is meant to be the bedrock foundation, musically speaking, of any band. The most important feat to be accomplished is groove, swing and playing "in the pocket" above all else. Substance before flash.

You said it much better than I did. I'll also add that the bass is often regarded as a rhythm instrument.

 

[kramer5150]

typically bass is more rhythmic / percussive. Although there are some players (geddy lee, John deacon, john paul jones) who write songs to carry a melody along with that rhythmic style.

Then theres Billy Sheehan and john Myung... who border line on guitar wankery at times.

IMHO bass guitar is the most difficult aspect of audio reproduction.... as you say it just gets lost in the mix. Although IMHO good headphones do an admirable job, usually better than most fairly costly home theater setups Ive heard.

Im not sure why bass guitars are not more prominent in the mix, depends on the engineers style I guess...??

I think bass guitar is laughed at in terms of a lead instrument, thats just the general populations oppinion (certainly not mine)... Look at big bottom by spinal tap.

Garrett

 

[PSmith08]

Geddy and Jaco managed to pull off some fairly complicated bass lines, but as to 99% of the rest of music, the bass is simple because the music is simple. Many bands need some sort of steady foundation to play their three (or five if the band is "soulful"--whatever that means) chord songs. If you start getting tricky, you could throw the rest of the group off. That wouldn't do. Not at all.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Check out the Montreux Jazz Festival DVD of Oscar Peterson with Ray Brown and Niels Pederson. One note? Nah. Brilliant performance.

 

[grawk]

Allen Woody from Gov't Mule
Jack Cassady from Hot Tuna
John Kahn from Jerry Garcia Band
Phil Lesh from the Grateful Dead
John Entwhistle from the Who

all played or play the heck out of the bass, both in terms of being a good foundation and in terms of playing basslines that go beyond the expected.

 

[kramer5150]

Stu Hamm, Roscoe Beck and Mario Cipollini (sp?) are also incredible players IMHO

I also like a lot of Stings work with the police and Steve Harris (iron maiden)... I was probably the only Police AND Iron Maiden fan in middle school.

**edit**
Eddie van halen played a 6 string ernie ball on "Spanked"... Another kind of, half-humorous song with lead harmonies/melodies done up for bass guitar.

IMHO the guy from Big Country had some serious chops too.

Garrett

 

[Rempert]

Basslines are simple for the same reason that set players play bass drum with their foot instead of their hands. As a drummer, that should be all the explanation you need.

The bass drum is, generally speaking, the foundation of a song's beat, on which all other rhythms are based. The tuned bass line is, generally speaking, the foundation of a song's tonal center, on which all chords and melodies are based.

It's certainly possible to get away from that, just like it's possible to get away from the major and minor modes, but not all that common. If the bass player does start to do something exotic, you can usually find someone else who has taken his normal role in the mix.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 Well, first off, the bass is not an instrument that's usually used to play "chords" in the 6-string guitar sense. It's usually not strummed. I agree that with no-talent acts the bass playing can be quite lame, but listen to Les Claypool from Primus, Mike Gordon from Phish, John Entwistle from The Who or Victor Wooten from Bela Fleck and the Flecktones and you'll see what good bass playing adds to music.

I have , and those guys rule.

My point is, why don't other people do it?

Playing guitar isn't the hardest thing to do, it's a lot easier than piano. I know for a fact that people can learn guitar if they try. (in other words, try to actually play that stringed instrument called bass instead of mindlessly strumming a D or G over and over again)

My theory is people are just lazy and/or bad musicians, so they play bass

I am a drummer so I understand the "it's about the rhythm" arguement... i like a good groove myself. But there's a difference between good grooving and mindless strumming, and i feel many basslines fall into the latter.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 Geddy and Jaco managed to pull off some fairly complicated bass lines, but as to 99% of the rest of music, the bass is simple because the music is simple. Many bands need some sort of steady foundation to play their three (or five if the band is "soulful"--whatever that means) chord songs. If you start getting tricky, you could throw the rest of the group off. That wouldn't do. Not at all.

My point exactly

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rempert Basslines are simple for the same reason that set players play bass drum with their foot instead of their hands. As a drummer, that should be all the explanation you need. The bass drum is, generally speaking, the foundation of a song's beat, on which all other rhythms are based. The tuned bass line is, generally speaking, the foundation of a song's tonal center, on which all chords and melodies are based. It's certainly possible to get away from that, just like it's possible to get away from the major and minor modes, but not all that common. If the bass player does start to do something exotic, you can usually find someone else who has taken his normal role in the mix.

I don't like the kickdrum. Guess i'm just crazy.

 

[grawk]

I think the trick is to present the rhythm without oversimplifying. The truly great bass players are rock solid on the tempo but you just feel it, you aren't bored by it. They play around it, do something interesting with it, and leave you to enjoy it.

/me queues up Devil Likes it Slow by Gov't Mule.