Basslines. Why are they so simple?
Jun 13, 2005 at 9:49 PM Post #16 of 50
Generally speaking, I don't think you will find the best musicians ir the most complicated music in progressive music.

Victor Wooten is nutz, Gary Grainger w/ Dennis Chambers is one of my favorite bass/drum combos and of course Ray Brown... can I say it again, Ray Brown.
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 10:45 PM Post #17 of 50
Wooten is a good case in point. His solos are insane, but his accompaniment work is often *extremely* simple. Often only one or two notes per measure. If he were to play more, it would distract from the work of the others. He knows his role in each song and does it well, whether it requires any noticeable amount of talent or not.
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 10:52 PM Post #18 of 50
I think i'm in agreement with gawk here.... perhaps the complexity issue isn't what was bothering me, but the issues of mastering/editing (many times putting the soudn of the bass in back so it's hard to hear) and then the difference between a bassist who can really "groove" whether it's simple or not, and a bassist who just... well.. plays the notes
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Jun 13, 2005 at 10:52 PM Post #19 of 50
Don't forget Chris Squire of Yes!

Basslines can either be really fantastic and add brilliantly to a track, or just simply make it boring. Listen to Frank Zappa's bass players, for example, especially on Joe's Garage, and you will hear the most fantastic bass-plucking - and it really compliments the song quite well!

Even acts like The Beatles had great bass lines - bass really brings a song to a new dimension ... but unfortunately most people today think of the bass as "just a bass".
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:07 PM Post #21 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
I think i'm in agreement with gawk here.... perhaps the complexity issue isn't what was bothering me, but the issues of mastering/editing (many times putting the soudn of the bass in back so it's hard to hear) and then the difference between a bassist who can really "groove" whether it's simple or not, and a bassist who just... well.. plays the notes
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I think people wouldn't relate to a bass-lead type of tune...

I played some dreamtheater and liquid tension tunes for my 20 year old niece and she was like..."OK... why is the intro 2 minutes long?... why is verse 3 5 minutes and verse 2, 1 minute?... what is the keyboard player doing playing all by himself, in the middle of this tune?..."
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I didnt even bother playing classic Yes or Marillion. You try and expand some peoples mind and its like... cranial overload.

Ever turn on FM radio... EGAD... everythings 4/4 time, 4 minute songs. Intro-chorus-verse1-chorus-verse2-chorus-closing-volume fade

Its like cookie cutter radio format. But thats what SELLS air-time. If you stick a solo of any type in there... or just alter the mix a little, with a bass player taking center stage and people friek out.

?????

thats my take on it...

Garrett
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:10 PM Post #23 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
the basslines are simple crap that a no-talent teenager could play.


Maybe you should play bass since it is so easy!

Edit - All drummers do is hit things with sticks, how hard can that be?
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:13 PM Post #24 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by dknightd
Maybe you should play bass since it is so easy!


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well i have spoken with music teachers, and they all say bass is by far the easiest instrument to learn.

FWIW.

Although, as those above have said, I think that's more a cultural thing than anything else. People think of bass as "just bass" like Aman and others have said, so to "learn bass" you don't have to learn much besides some VERY basic technique and basic theory.

In reality, percussion is probably the simplest musically because you don't really have to learn any theory to play it. But usually in our culture, drumset is used and drumset as it's used is pretty complex compared to how bass guitar is used.

So, objectively, yeah my statement was dumb, but it fits for what you hear most of the time
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You following me? heh. that got a bit rambly.
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:18 PM Post #25 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by dknightd
Edit - All drummers do is hit things with sticks, how hard can that be?


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show me a commoner with a sense of rhythm. i never learned music theory because i find it distasteful and boring, but i can drum better than anyone i know. i leave them in the dust. i am only so-so with drumset technique, but show me a hand drum (Doumbek for example) and my sense of rhythm is impeccable, and i make up for the complexity of drumset with pure panache
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Jun 13, 2005 at 11:22 PM Post #26 of 50
Technically, bass can be easy. Musically, not so. I played bass for about half a year but I found that I lacked the musical base to enjoy it. I've since started learning guitar and piano and that really helps you to understand where music comes from. Previously I was a saxophonist but wasn't sure what I was doing with anything. They say listen to the band but I didn't really click, haha. Just listened to the volume and how I fit in the mix, not what my notes were doing in relation to everyone else. Once you start doing that even the simple "boring" stuff becomes critical and you enjoy playing it.

Unfortunately I still suck.

Check out TM Stevens, and Taiji from X (X japan). I especially like Taiji's work.
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:36 PM Post #27 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
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You following me?



Yep. The fact is that precussion and bass as used in modern music seems like it is easy enough to do. But, it is easier said than done. Finding somebody good at either is not so easy...
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:43 PM Post #28 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric
The bass is an instrument which is meant to be the bedrock foundation, musically speaking, of any band. The most important feat to be accomplished is groove, swing and playing "in the pocket" above all else. Substance before flash.

Yet, to pigeonhole all bass players as playing lines that are "simple crap that a no-talent teenager could play" is not well-informed, to say the least. In addition to the phenomenal talents of bassists already mentioned, I recommend you check out work by Gary Willis with Tribal Tech, Jaco Pastorius with Weather Report and Billy Sheehan with Steve Vai, and report back to me when your local Guitar Center bass-god-wannabe teenager can play their lines
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Yes, often bass parts suffer the ignominy of being buried in the mix, but with some bands, the producer/engineer gives the instrument the attention it deserves. Like with Rush, for example. Even McCartney's lines with the Beatles, while simple, are hardly simplistic.



Well said, mate.
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:44 PM Post #29 of 50
Actually, playing even simple bass lines really well is pretty damn hard. In my last band, I played bass about ten percent of the time. I'm a guitar player, not a bass player, and I found that it was pretty easy to play basic bass lines (I just had to resist the urge to play bass solos when I should be keeping a groove). But, it took me a long time to actually begin to play stuff well--to be locked into a tight groove with a drummer, but still keep it interesting.

Pointing out why a good bass player is good is pretty difficult. The song either grooves or it doesn't. The same simple four note bass line can be played by two different people--one a competent bass player and one a great bass player--and the great bass players lines will lock you into to the heart of the song much more than the listening to the competent bass player. Listen to, for example, how Charlie Mingus plays the bass. Some of his lines may not be complicated (for jazz anyway), but his sense of timing and groove, his sense of how to punch a note just at just the right time, can be indescribable.
 
Jun 13, 2005 at 11:57 PM Post #30 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
Playing guitar isn't the hardest thing to do, it's a lot easier than piano. I know for a fact that people can learn guitar if they try. (in other words, try to actually play that stringed instrument called bass instead of mindlessly strumming a D or G over and over again)

My theory is people are just lazy and/or bad musicians, so they play bass
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Real guitar playing is about the clean right hand. Bass is easy. Playing like Niels Pederson or Victor Wooten is not.
 

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