[dknightd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek show me a commoner with a sense of rhythm.

Every working bass player I've met has a good sense of rhythm, and a working knowledge of music theory (chords, keys, etc). They have to. They play rhythm, and also frequently the fundimental note. Likewise a good drummer has to have both rythm and a some feel for keys and chords (otherwise drum sets would just have one drum, one bell, and one cymbal). Hit the wrong drum in a kit at the right time and it will not sound right.
No talent teenagers are easy to find. Good bass players, or drummers, are not nearly as common.

 

[Aman]

Bass is easier to learn. You CANNOT deny this.
However, the bass is just as hard as any other instrument to get good at.
Why is it easier to learn? It's a simpler instrument, is why. However, this is made up for by the different playing styles you can play, which gives you different sounds each time. (Pluck Vs. Slap, for example)

I have been a drummer for 13 years -- I am SURE AS HELL not going to stand for "drummers hit things with sticks" as a proper answer. Drummers have to keep a beat, and they have to make the song exciting. What you said there just shows plain lack of understanding of my instrument, and it also is a very imature way to "compare" instruments. Where would Rush be without Neil Pert? Then again, where would Rush be without Geddy Lee? Same with Yes - They could have never made it without Bill Bruford - but they also couldn't have made it without Chris Squire's innovation - he frickin' revolutionized the use of a bass! But then again, Neil Pert also revolutionized the use of a drum kit.

Drums have a never-ending amount of complexity, actually, to think about it. You can be slipknot's drummer and have an Effing cage as a kit, or a simple four-piece. And to go even further, the possibilities on either kit are endless - but with more drums comes more possibilities. So if you think about it, the drums are the most complex instrument you could possibly have.

To give you a taste of your own medicine, let me just remind you that every bass player on the face of the earth is stupid

 

[dknightd]

While we are talking talented bass players, give Stanley Clark a listen.

 

[3DCadman]

I've been playing bass since I was 12 (I'm 36 now).
Yes, it can be easier to learn than guitar, simply at first because you don't need to learn all the freakin cords! I tought me-self by endlessly playing Rush, Yes, Iron Maiden and many others. The prog stuff was the funnest to play because it's so busy.

Seriously, you can make it as simple as you want (say, AC/DC) and you can make it as complicated as you want (Squire, Geddy). It all depends on the service to the music.

The toughest part of learning to playing the bass is managing your speed vs. plucking the fat strings (if finger playing) I have played with 2 and 3 finger techniques, and have settled on a 3 finger style. It can come off as a "trot" type sound if you're not careful, but you can establish a "rhythm" after awhile and make it sound like 2 fingers fast. When you try to play fast (Dream Theater or Iron Maiden fast bass) you will cramp up in no time with 2 fingers (at least I do). Amazingly, I read somewhere that Steve Harris (Iron Maiden) ONLY USES 2 FINGERS!!!! That blew my mind. He sounds like he uses all 4 (not counting the thumb of course!)

Geddy Lee lately has started using a strumming style (he jokingly calls it his "flamenco" style). You can really hear it on the Vapor Trails CD. Practicing to Geddy got my chops down regarding left hand-right hand syncopation. Steve Harris got my speed chops down.

In reality, I really appreciate a good groove based style too, especially if it's centered on low (bottom string) notes. I can't think of a good example at the moment.

Another bassist I really dig is Jonas Reingold from the Flower Kings. That guy often reminds me of a rocking Jaco. Check out "Black and White" from "Unfold the Future" to see what I mean.

One of the most fluid players I have ever heard is Jimmy Haslip from the jazz outfit Yellowjackets. The guy knows how to play bass. He can play slow, fast, Jaco-like, and a fretless style all his own. He is amazing.

I guess I'm biased toward the more busy players, being a bassist myself, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[craiglester]

Umm I've always been under the impression that as the Bass player is generally a part of the Rhythm section, the Bass lines we're always meant to be simpler...

I Must, however admit to being wholly impressed every time I see Rush, and I see Geddy Lee playing a bassline with his hands and playing a (admittedly rather simple) keyboard line with foot pedals - whilst singing too..

That's a little beyond my abilities to comprehend.. I mean, uhh how does he do it?

Anyhow, IMHO, Bass - not as simple as it looks

 

[pne]

I've been playing guitar for 4 years, and always looked at the bass as an easy to dismiss instrument, that I could play if I really wanted to quite easily. However when I first picked up a bass, it sounded like I was playing lead guitar, not bass. Bass playing takes an very good sense of rythm, and playing dynamics. To me a good bassist is someone who will lift my guitar playing up and fill in the bottom end to give it the oompff. A good bassist will play the notes so well timed that our instruments will combine and sound as one. A bassist is rarely appreciated onstage, but when gone will be sorely missed. I know when I slam down hard on a powerchord, to give the audience that kick in the face sound, it would sound dinky and limited without bass support.

 

[asmox]

to the original poster -

if you haven't already, check out Gordian Knot.. sean malone is always great.

also check out Bill Dickens on this album.. my jaw was on the floor after i got through that performance for the first time.

dirk lance, while he was still in Incubus, played some awesome bass. too bad he left :[

the guy from Spiral Architect is good, but i personally don't like his style.

the guy from 3 plays cool bass.

the flower kings' bassist is awesome, imo.. i love his style.

the dude from Porcupine Tree is tasteful.. if not technically incredible.

ark, dredg, john finn group, hiromi, the apex theory, tortoise, weather report/return to forever, vai/satriani (billy sheehan, stu hamm, whoever else..).. all of these bands have great bassists.

there are many others.. and i really can't grasp how John Myung's bass is simple?

 

[Jahn]

one of the most valuable pieces of advice i ever got when listening to jazz combos was this - who sets the rhythm, who is the one that the sax/trumpet/vocal soloist look to to set the pace, the feel, the timing of the performance? no, it's not the drummer. maybe in a rock band that's the case. but in Jazz, it's the bassist. try following the bassist while thinking in your head "1-2-3-4" - it's damn impossible lol! bassists can be extremely complicated when laying down that foundation, and you have to be an accomplished musician (or listener) to pick up on where the bassist wants to take you - or if the bassist picks up on where you want to take them. check out charles mingus - bop bassist? NOT easy to follow - even sparse playing is insanely involved. like miles used to say, some of the best solos are said in the silence.

so don't be fooled that because a bass has 4 strings that it's easier to play than a 6-string guitar. a good bassist is sometimes harder to find than a lead guitarist (same goes with rhythm guitar btw - malcolm is overshadowed by angus in AC/DC!) speaking of rock, check out Peter Hook from New Order. He totally gave up on being the traditional bassist and plays his lines like he's the lead guitarist - he lets the sampler take care of the foundation duties, and winds and drones among the souless dance beats. awesome.

 

[adhoc]

perhaps becausee basslines are typically used to underpin the melody rather than be the actual melody?

or maybe it might just the simple fact that it's more difficult to 'bop' one's head to a really really complicated and quick bassline..

 

[VicAjax]

pick up anything by fIREHOSE (start with If'n or fROMOHIO)...

and bow down before the mighty thunderstick of Mike Watt.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox there are many others.. and i really can't grasp how John Myung's bass is simple?

might just be because i haven't had the luxury of seeing DT live

anyhoo...

IME, perhaps it is not simple *all* the time, but most times dissapears into the mix like any other song. doesn't matter how awesome the bass playing is if i can't hear it. i suppose if i could rewrite this whole thread, that would be my rant.

In any case, thanks for all the responses. It's been educational to say the least

 

[PSmith08]

Most non-classical modern engineering is sub-par in a big way. I cannot see how an excessively bright mix, heavy on vocals and guitars with thudding drums and little recognizable bass, sounds good to anyone. However, one must give the people what they want, even if what they want is stupid.

 

[zachary80]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek might just be because i haven't had the luxury of seeing DT live anyhoo... IME, perhaps it is not simple *all* the time, but most times dissapears into the mix like any other song.

You do realize that Myungs bass blends in some times because he is playing pretty much the same thing as the guitar? Some of his stuff is difficult. Other times it is amazing (like his tapping style bass solo in....that one song).


Anyways why should the bass line have to be complex? Or always standing out?

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 Most non-classical modern engineering is sub-par in a big way. I cannot see how an excessively bright mix, heavy on vocals and guitars with thudding drums and little recognizable bass, sounds good to anyone. However, one must give the people what they want, even if what they want is stupid.

haha.

well put

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachary80 Anyways why should the bass line have to be complex?

Doesn't. I just don't want it edging over that line into "simple" or "boring" too often. Complex enough to be interesting.

Quote:

Or always standing out?

Now this, this I do admit to wanting. Of course I want the bass to stand out. Every instrument should stand out. Why should any of them be more apparent than the others? Unless you are specifically doing a solo at that time. Otherwise, all instruments should be equally represented. At least IMHO FWIW YMMV