[Flumpus]

I agree Joe... I think someone can like classical music, but not like the Sennheiser sound. I like classical music, and I sold the HD600s In fact I'm probably gonna be goin' back to the RS1s at some point before I get something electrostatic.

The best way to decide if you like something is of course to hear it, we can't be right all the time just based on someone's description of what they like

 

[hinors14]

If you buy the HD600s and a good quality setup you'll hear your music clean and accurate. That's something positive if the music is well recorded, but if it isn't the HD600s will find every weakness in the sound.

When I read your thread I get the impression that you aren't looking for clean and accurate sound, but good bass and an engaging sound in general. I find that both Grados and Senns have good bass, but if you want engaging sound (=bright colored) you should go with the Grados. They have good bass and a more engaging sound the the Senns.

When I bought my pair of SR60s I was mainly listening to punk and rock and enjoyed the "in-your-face" sound. Later on I developed a taste for classical and jazz as well. I've also begun to listen to test-cd's and audiophile cd's. I still find the Grados bass to be good, but I'm beginning to notice their weak sides: inaccuracy and brightness.

Conclusion:
If you continue the rest of your life with the same musical taste I would buy a couple of Grados.

If you think you will develop a taste for classical and jazz or well recorded music in general you should consider the HD600s. They may not sound fantastic with your present setup, but if your wallet is thick enough you can simply upgrade until you reach a good-sounding setup. Many people here say that they won't sound great with a cheap amp - this may very well be true, but isn't there room for improvement (buying a better amp later on)?

Like somone else here said: If you buy the HD600s your next upgrade won't be headphones...

PS. If you choose the HD600s they cost $220 at www.meier-audio.com which is just as cheap as here in Denmark.

hinors14

 

[kelly]

Well, I've said most of this in other places on the forum, but I have to get 1000 somehow, right?

I think the HD600 IS overrated in comparrison to other headphones, given their cost.

Among the flaws of the HD600 is a nowhere near flat response (it's all over the place), relatively low resolution compared to other headphones like the W2002, recessed vocals and (here it comes, wait for it...) sloppy, muddy bass.

I find these characteristics to be true from most amplifiers. However, I do agree with the general sentiment that the HD600 gets better as you get better amps. I was considering selling my HD600, which I had already heard with the Headroom Max, until I heard it with the RKV. Finally the bass tightened up and more extension was present. In other respects, the benefits were similar to that of the Max--cleaner, slightly better resolution, the recessed vocals feeling less underpowered (but still imaging too far back on stage for my taste).

For me, the absolute entry point to HD600 is the MG Head. If you're not willing to fork out at least enough for that, definitely look into a different headphone. Even with the MG Head, you'll find the bass sloppy but the sweet midrange almost makes up for it. If it's bass you're looking for, you want at least an RKV if you're going to get the HD600.

If you're going to get something like the Max and tight bass is the priority, I recommend the Beyerdynamic DT931. In many other ways, I think the HD600 is preferable but the 931 does seem more accurate and the bass is definitely tighter on that amp. It doesn't quite have the extension but it's pretty close and it's MUCH more refined on that amp.

As for music stylings, I can only guess that you'd take less issue with the recessed vocals on genres that have less vocals. I'd also guess genres that have less refined bass would be easier to appreciate. I'd suppose these reasons are why people think the HD600 great for classical. With the HD600, the trebble seems to dip in places that are often harsh with poor sources making them forgiving especially with classical. Bass is present in classical but rarely demanded to be precise or tight like we demand for electronica, punk and rock bass guitars.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Kelly,

The raw graph for the 600 may *look* like it's all over the place, but that's mostly because the 600's FR (frequency response) attempts to compensate for the HRTF of the headphone soundfield relative to the loudspeaker soundfield.

To the best that I can determine from my time spent listening to tone sweeps on the HD580 (

) and (unsuccessfully trying to) EQ the HD580 (and the 600's supposed to be similar, only better right?) the only places where the 580 deviates from the ideal are:

1. The dip around 7500Hz to counter ear canal resonance (yes the dip is there for a reason) is too sharp--it should be shallower but drawn over a wider range of frequencies.

2. The higher midrange between 1kHz and 5kHz is recessed by a few dB relative to the lower frequencies.

And that's it!

Other headphones like the Beyer 770 may *look* flatter on the raw FR graph but may well sound less balanced than the 600.

Quote:

Well, I've said most of this in other places on the forum, but I have to get 1000 somehow, right?

And I've just got there with this post

YAY!

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bloggs Kelly, The raw graph for the 600 may *look* like it's all over the place, but that's mostly because the 600's FR (frequency response) attempts to compensate for the HRTF of the headphone soundfield relative to the loudspeaker soundfield. To the best that I can determine from my time spent listening to tone sweeps on the HD580 ( ) and (unsuccessfully trying to) EQ the HD580 (and the 600's supposed to be similar, only better right?) the only places where the 580 deviates from the ideal are: 1. The dip around 7500Hz to counter ear canal resonance (yes the dip is there for a reason) is too sharp--it should be shallower but drawn over a wider range of frequencies. 2. The higher midrange between 1kHz and 5kHz is recessed by a few dB relative to the lower frequencies. And that's it! Other headphones like the Beyer 770 may *look* flatter on the raw FR graph but may well sound less balanced than the 600. And I've just got there with this post YAY!

Sorry for not being explicit but when I criticize a piece of audio equipment's frequency response, I tend to be talking about what my subjective ears are hearing, not what the graph represents. The HD600 does not sound flat to me. Whether it is primarily those two deviations or it is a miscalculation on Sennheiser's part or the measuring devices or whatever, I don't know. I just know that it sounds like it's all over the place and with mixed results.

Congrats on your MOH loan. Be sure to post about it.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF As a side note, I disagree with this. The V6/7506 has an impressively flat bass response, not a boosted one.

Well, as another side note to your side note (does that make it more to the side, or put it back to the middle?), I disagree with your disagreement. The V6/7506 does sound slightly boosted to me. Not bloated or boomy, just slightly higher in amplitude/response/whatever. Are you talking with an amp or without? What source? Me: I've listened to it on everything from straight out of a cheesy computer soundcard to RKV with MSB Tech Link DAC III and/or (pre-2K) Rega Planet.

EDIT: PS The RKV was not a good match, but the Creek was okay.

 

[gaineso]

I'm still trying to get to 500.

The HD600's have very clean low frequency response (BASS is my favorite game fish, not the low frequencies in audio) when driven by my 2001 Total Airhead. I'm using the line out of my Harmon-Kardon FL8300 CDP which has a very clean and relatively high voltage output. It drives the TA and the HD600's to some real sonic bliss. I know that better sources and amps exist.

HOWEVER, any blanket statement that HD600's need an expensive, high end amp to sound good is snobbery of the worst kind. They can be driven very well and very cleanly to ear destroying levels with a TA.

They also have a very smooth, easy to enjoy FR. I listen to a lot of rock, mostly acid, and a lot of blues. My puny little rig can get right in my face if that's the music I'm listening to. It can also lay back if that's what the music requires or my mood wants.

Great cans that need a little help. They can also absorb serious source and amp upgrades with comensurate upgrades in their performance.

 

[shivohum]

Quote:

They can be driven very well and very cleanly to ear destroying levels with a TA.

Agreed. But I do believe that at least a basic amp like the TA is a very highly recommended investment -- most receivers or sound cards sound pretty disappointing with the HD600.

 

[kelly]

Due to the recent sale of my W2002 and the recent impairment of my RKV, I found myself disliking the Corda HA-1 and HD600 combination.

In short,
RKV > HD600

RKV > W2002

Corda HA-1 > W2002

Corda HA-1 > HD600

Sittin by the ocean, kelly so sad. Ain't got no amp to make his sennheiser not bad.

 

[ai0tron]

DONT BUY THE HD600's THEY OBVIOUSLY SUCK.

"Sorry for not being explicit but when I criticize a piece of audio equipment's frequency response, I tend to be talking about what my subjective ears are hearing, not what the graph represents. The HD600 does not sound flat to me. "

SEE?

NO WHERE NEAR FLAT. You dont want these headphones, they are lame.

 

[Pat]

grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado grado.

That is all.

 

[gaineso]

Quote:

Originally posted by ai0tron DONT BUY THE HD600's THEY OBVIOUSLY SUCK. "Sorry for not being explicit but when I criticize a piece of audio equipment's frequency response, I tend to be talking about what my subjective ears are hearing, not what the graph represents. The HD600 does not sound flat to me. " SEE? NO WHERE NEAR FLAT. You dont want these headphones, they are lame.

If your "Subjective Ears" are that bad, maybe you need to try out that Sennheiser Cochlear Implant.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Are you new here or what?

You should know where ai0tron's loyalties lie, that was obviously a joke

 

[Lizard_1]

Quote:

Originally posted by gaineso HOWEVER, any blanket statement that HD600's need an expensive, high end amp to sound good is snobbery of the worst kind. They can be driven very well and very cleanly to ear destroying levels with a TA.

OTOH, you can achieve great bass with the HD600 by listening to classical, the drums, the cello, those vibrations can hurt, even with nothing in between!

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by gaineso I know that better sources and amps exist. HOWEVER, any blanket statement that HD600's need an expensive, high end amp to sound good is snobbery of the worst kind. They can be driven very well and very cleanly to ear destroying levels with a TA.

I'm rarely accused of snobbery and take particular offense to that. The many times I've come to defend quality budget components like the Corda HA-1, JMT cha47, ART DI/O and YES, CHEAPER headphones than the Sennheiser HD600 should be a testament to the fact that if anything, I tend to fight against such snobbery.

I don't doubt that you can drive the Sennheiser HD600 to "ear destroying volumes" with your amp. For that matter, the headphone jack of my home receiver is quite capaable of destorying your hearing with the HD600 as well. If volume is what you seek, you certainly should have no complaints and find no reason to upgrade amplifiers.

What I have suggested and will defend is that the HD600 does not perform as well, unamped, as competing headphones. I also believe, rather strongly, that the HD600 does not sound good enough on the lower end amps to justify its ownership over other quality headphones. This is not meant as an insult to your amplifier or any of the rest of your equipment. Rather, I only mean to insinuate that the HD600 has needs beyond that of normal headphones and require more expensive solutions to keep up with their competitors.

I strongly recommend you get on Headroom's loaner program to check out some other amplifiers so that you might draw your own conclusions rather than taking my word for it. I don't blame anyone for cynicism as I certainly wouldn't have believed the headphone could come to life as much as it has either (in fact I almost sold them and bought some other cans until I heard them with an amp I liked).

For a little more insight, understand that I'm teetering on depression over the fact that I just sold some really efficient headphones that do not have such special needs and sound great out of my Corda. As soon as I had a buyer for them, my RKV amp went unconcious and I'm stuck listening to the HD600 on an amp that I don't particularly like them on until I can get it repaired.