[Dexter22]

  Appreciate the recommendation but why would I need a DAC/amp combo when I have a perfectly good DAC already?
 
My Asus Xonar DX sound card has a top of the line Cirrus Logic chip (CS4398) that is supposed to be smartly implemented with solid ancillary circuitry... it should hold it's own against the ESS 9010 or 9016 chips found in the Dragonflys right?   Or am I missing something here?  
 
BTW:  The main reason I went with the Asus Xonar DX was because I always liked the sound on Marantz CD players which use the CS4398 chip.

Personally I had a xduoo x3, which I used with the Beoplay H6. It has the same 'cs 4398' chip you mentioned. The hifimediy with 9018 sounded, more full bodied, detailed, but slightly harsh. Cs 4398 was easy to listen, but in comparison, it was inferior. Again, like always said, implementation matters. May be the asus sounds better, as I have not personally listened to it. I personally found the older Marantz CD 63 SE/KI to be sounding better than the newer ones, but its just a personal thing.

 

[k4syx]

Appreciate the recommendation but why would I need a DAC/amp combo when I have a perfectly good DAC already?

I was just saying that you actually CAN use DragonFly because it doesnt connect to sfx card but is a complete (also mobile) solution on its own (you were writing that it wont work with your xonax as amp as it is usb device)

Anyway, just try the DragonFly Red if you'll be able to get your hands on it. Excellent SQ and mobility in one package.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

  ...but the H6s uniquely did not seem to "improve" on any front other than volume. Which i'm happy with, since I find the sound they have on their own is as close to my ideal "all-purpose" sound as I can get.

You have got me thinking... my Asus Xonar DX sound card, even though the line out is only 100 ohms, might be driving my H6s perfectly and an amp would only provide an increase in volume which I don't need.  So where is the 1/8th rule failing me here in my situation?

 

[Bubblejuice]

  You have got me thinking... my Asus Xonar DX sound card, even though the line out is only 100 ohms, might be driving my H6s perfectly and an amp would only provide an increase in volume which I don't need.  So where is the 1/8th rule failing me here in my situation?

You shouldn't hear an appreciable difference between your Xonar and another nice DAC. The only thing you really have to gain is more volume from an amp. The Dragonfly Red is well known for being an excellent DAC. It really does compete with higher end DACs while still being passive and super small (the point of a DAC is to get a clean signal). But I have, as many others do, a very hard time distinguishing my DFR to my iPhone's decent internal DAC. 
 
So I think it's safe to assume any "DAC" upgrade won't make a difference compared to the Xonar which is also a great sound card. If you need volume. Go for something versatile that has the features and power you want. But don't overspend. Especially for the H6s that are fantastic own their own, and don't necessarily improve in quality with upgraded gear.

 

[bcarr112281]

  . . . I also don't think expensive cables make much of a difference in sound quality. . . .

 
I only glanced at plusSound's site, but I noticed their featured custom cables sell for over $200. May I ask why you chose the Exo? Could you recommend cheaper alternatives that are well constructed?
 
I'm hoping to replace my Gen 1's crummy stock cable, and I want one that's only four feet. Yes, I know V-Moda's cables are well-regarded here, as are several others mentioned closer to the beginning of this thread. Apparently not all cables compatible with Gen. 2 will work with Gen. 1, and I'm rather leery of the situation.
 
Thanks,
Brian

 

[Bubblejuice]

   
I only glanced at plusSound's site, but I noticed their featured custom cables sell for over $200. May I ask why you chose the Exo? Could you recommend cheaper alternatives that are well constructed?
 
I'm hoping to replace my Gen 1's crummy stock cable, and I want one that's only four feet. Yes, I know V-Moda's cables are well-regarded here, as are several others mentioned closer to the beginning of this thread. Apparently not all cables compatible with Gen. 2 will work with Gen. 1, and I'm rather leery of the situation.
 
Thanks,
Brian

Haha, I bought my Gen 2s slightly used. It came with the package. I would never pay that much for a cable. I have to say though, it's not my first experience with Plus Sound cables, and they are very well constructed. But, they are way too expensive.
 
I think a Vmoda cable would work just fine. Most people don't have a problem with them, and they are pretty affordable considering how durable they are. It's definitely worth a shot. If it doesn't work you could always return it (if you get it on Amazon). A durable cable that gives a solid connection is all you need. If you agree with my opinion on cables, then there's no point is wasting extra money on "higher quality" materials that improve sound, because they most likely don't. 

 

[WoodyLuvr]

  You shouldn't hear an appreciable difference between your Xonar and another nice DAC. The only thing you really have to gain is more volume from an amp. The Dragonfly Red is well known for being an excellent DAC. It really does compete with higher end DACs while still being passive and super small (the point of a DAC is to get a clean signal). But I have, as many others do, a very hard time distinguishing my DFR to my iPhone's decent internal DAC. 
 
So I think it's safe to assume any "DAC" upgrade won't make a difference compared to the Xonar which is also a great sound card. If you need volume. Go for something versatile that has the features and power you want. But don't overspend. Especially for the H6s that are fantastic own their own, and don't necessarily improve in quality with upgraded gear.

I believe you are very correct regarding the DAC.
 
My dilemma is wither or not my Xonar DX sound card is driving my H6s well enough (properly).
 
The Xonar DX does not provide a low headphone amp output impedance but rather a 100 Ω line out.  Approaching this scientifically the 1/8th rule indicates that my H6s would be properly amped at <4 Ω... which therefore means that the 100 Ω line out from my sound card is inadequate and I may be unknowingly missing some performance due to that?
 
Also, though the H6's impedance is only 30 Ω are they not slightly hard to drive due to their sensitivity being @ 97 dB/mW?

 

[Bubblejuice]

  I believe you are very correct regarding the DAC.
 
My dilemma is wither or not my Xonar DX sound card is driving my H6s well enough (properly).
 
The Xonar DX does not provide a low headphone amp output impedance but rather a 100 Ω line out.  Approaching this scientifically the 1/8th rule indicates that my H6s would be properly amped at <4 Ω... which therefore means that the 100 Ω line out from my sound card is inadequate and I may be unknowingly missing some performance due to that?
 
Also, though the H6's impedance is only 30 Ω are they not slightly hard to drive due to their sensitivity being @ 97 dB/mW?

Not going to lie, I have never heard of that rule. And i'm not technically versed in electronics. So take what I say with a huge grain of salt.
 
But to my eyes, if my iPhone 6 can run the H6s just fine, and the iPhone 6 + DFR can give me more juice than I need. I'm sure your Sonar is just fine. As far as I've read, impedance doesn't necessarily effect sound quality. Just volume. If your volume is fine, then any upgrade in gear will probably net you huge diminishing returns (at least with the H6), unless you want to capitalize on the placebo effect.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

  Not going to lie, I have never heard of that rule. And i'm not technically versed in electronics. So take what I say with a huge grain of salt.
 
But to my eyes, if my iPhone 6 can run the H6s just fine, and the iPhone 6 + DFR can give me more juice than I need. I'm sure your Sonar is just fine. As far as I've read, impedance doesn't necessarily effect sound quality. Just volume. If your volume is fine, then any upgrade in gear will probably net you huge diminishing returns (at least with the H6), unless you want to capitalize on the placebo effect.

I believe you are right good man.  I just installed the latest UNi Xonar drivers with an astoundingly awesome improvement!  No need for an amp now as 22-25% on the volume is kicking my butt and the sound is dramatically improved and clearer.  My H6s and ears are happy now.  Thank you.

 

[k4syx]

OK just a short, general (not addressed to anyone in particular) note on amps and amping.

Yes, the amp is there to amplify the signal. Yes, that means basically the volume: if it is loud enough, then you do not need to amp it further "to get it louder".

But there also other important factors that affect amps and thus sound quality: some of the are: distortion, resolution, dynamic range, channel separation, background noise, power line noise, "speed" (english is not my native language and I know Iam missing a word here).

This means that better quality amp will result in better quality of reproduced sound. This is important when using quality headphones since we do not want an amp to be bottleneck for the whole set.

AFAIK Xonar lets the user change amp section by replacing stock amps with f.e. Burson ones. I still think stock Xonar output will be better than f.e. stock iPhone output (regardless of pure volume).

And seriously, that iphone audio output - as good as it may seem for a mobile phone (though I've heard better ones) - is still far, far away from being in the same class as any proper, dedicated headphone amp (as even the cheapest, used, no longer produced DragonFly 1.0 or 1.2 not even mentioning Red one).

But do not jus believe me (though as an engineer I know what I am speaking about here) but try to listen from proper headphone amp.

Same goes for cables: changing them makes little sense when H6 is driven straight from the mobile phone headphone output. The differences are clear when tha cable becomes the bottleneck of the whole setup (though I still think that the maximum price for cable is <20USD, anything more will be better spent on amp or headphones)

Once again: "****storm disclaimer": I do not address anyone in particular in this thread so if you feel disturbed by my words remember: do not take it personally

 

[WoodyLuvr]

OK just a short, general (not addressed to anyone in particular) note on amps and amping.

Yes, the amp is there to amplify the signal. Yes, that means basically the volume: if it is loud enough, then you do not need to amp it further "to get it louder".

But there also other important factors that affect amps and thus sound quality: some of the are: distortion, resolution, dynamic range, channel separation, background noise, power line noise, "speed" (english is not my native language and I know Iam missing a word here).

This means that better quality amp will result in better quality of reproduced sound. This is important when using quality headphones since we do not want an amp to be bottleneck for the whole set.

AFAIK Xonar lets the user change amp section by replacing stock amps with f.e. Burson ones. I still think stock Xonar output will be better than f.e. stock iPhone output (regardless of pure volume).

And seriously, that iphone audio output - as good as it may seem for a mobile phone (though I've heard better ones) - is still far, far away from being in the same class as any proper, dedicated headphone amp (as even the cheapest, used, no longer produced DragonFly 1.0 or 1.2 not even mentioning Red one).

But do not jus believe me (though as an engineer I know what I am speaking about here) but try to listen from proper headphone amp.

Same goes for cables: changing them makes little sense when H6 is driven straight from the mobile phone headphone output. The differences are clear when tha cable becomes the bottleneck of the whole setup (though I still think that the maximum price for cable is <20USD, anything more will be better spent on amp or headphones)

Once again: "****storm disclaimer": I do not address anyone in particular in this thread so if you feel disturbed by my words remember: do not take it personally

Very thoughtful; makes perfect sense.  Thank you for all your helpful posts and suggestions.  Just glad I rectified my listening concerns via the updated drivers.  Cheers and respects.

 

[k4syx]

Very thoughtful; makes perfect sense.  Thank you for all your helpful posts and suggestions.  Just glad I rectified my listening concerns via the updated drivers.  Cheers and respects.

I'm glad I could help. And now I can see how many typos I've made there

 

[Bubblejuice]

OK just a short, general (not addressed to anyone in particular) note on amps and amping.

Yes, the amp is there to amplify the signal. Yes, that means basically the volume: if it is loud enough, then you do not need to amp it further "to get it louder".

But there also other important factors that affect amps and thus sound quality: some of the are: distortion, resolution, dynamic range, channel separation, background noise, power line noise, "speed" (english is not my native language and I know Iam missing a word here).

This means that better quality amp will result in better quality of reproduced sound. This is important when using quality headphones since we do not want an amp to be bottleneck for the whole set.

AFAIK Xonar lets the user change amp section by replacing stock amps with f.e. Burson ones. I still think stock Xonar output will be better than f.e. stock iPhone output (regardless of pure volume).

And seriously, that iphone audio output - as good as it may seem for a mobile phone (though I've heard better ones) - is still far, far away from being in the same class as any proper, dedicated headphone amp (as even the cheapest, used, no longer produced DragonFly 1.0 or 1.2 not even mentioning Red one).

But do not jus believe me (though as an engineer I know what I am speaking about here) but try to listen from proper headphone amp.

Same goes for cables: changing them makes little sense when H6 is driven straight from the mobile phone headphone output. The differences are clear when tha cable becomes the bottleneck of the whole setup (though I still think that the maximum price for cable is <20USD, anything more will be better spent on amp or headphones)

Once again: "****storm disclaimer": I do not address anyone in particular in this thread so if you feel disturbed by my words remember: do not take it personally

I agree 100%. Dedicated amps make a huge difference in most headphones. What I meant with the iPhone was purely talking about the DAC.

 

[musiclvr]

Listening to the new Ed Sheeran album 'Divide' which sounds awesome from my humble iPhone 6s+. It has a really nice sub-bass presence and forward vocals. The treble is nicely behaved too. I usually use some type of a portable rig so I am pleasantly surprised by what the H6 can do just using my phone. I personally feel that the H6 is one of the more power hungry HP's out there even if it is seemingly supposed to be very efficient @ 32 ohms.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Listening to the new Ed Sheeran album 'Divide' which sounds awesome from my humble iPhone 6s+. It has a really nice sub-bass presence and forward vocals. The treble is nicely behaved too. I usually use some type of a portable rig so I am pleasantly surprised by what the H6 can do just using my phone. I personally feel that the H6 is one of the more power hungry HP's out there even if it is seemingly supposed to be very efficient @ 32 ohms.

Probably not due to the Ω in so much the sensitivity being @ 97 dB/mW.