i've tried a few akgs with the darkvoice, from k301(old version) to k400, to k501 and k601. none of them sound right. it just feels, what's the word.....lifeless. on the other hand, i just got my hd600 and it doesn't sound like what an hd600 people had been saying here, slow or boring or veil. it sound nice. my dt990 pro sound very good with the darkvoice too. my guess is the darkvoice doesn't do grado well is it? i only heard sr60, ms1 and rs1.
Bada PH-12 v. Darkvoice 337: Informal First Impressions
- Thread starter pataburd
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Gradofan2
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
Actually...
... the DV332 is not bad with my RS-1s - not as smooth as the Senns, but pretty good. Just a little rough here and there on some pieces. Same with the D5000s.
But... in general its a bit better match with higher impedance phones.
I would guess the Dv337 is similar... but... maybe not.
| Originally Posted by fhuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif i've tried a few akgs with the darkvoice, from k301(old version) to k400, to k501 and k601. none of them sound right. it just feels, what's the word.....lifeless. on the other hand, i just got my hd600 and it doesn't sound like what an hd600 people had been saying here, slow or boring or veil. it sound nice. my dt990 pro sound very good with the darkvoice too. my guess is the darkvoice doesn't do grado well is it? i only heard sr60, ms1 and rs1. |
Actually...
... the DV332 is not bad with my RS-1s - not as smooth as the Senns, but pretty good. Just a little rough here and there on some pieces. Same with the D5000s.
But... in general its a bit better match with higher impedance phones.
I would guess the Dv337 is similar... but... maybe not.
tourmaline
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Quote:
It's like gardofan2 said;
most amps are either good with low impedance cans or with high impedance cans..most are better with high impedance cans, say 300-600 ohms. Low impedance cans start at about 32 ohms...most of the low impedance cans usually sound good right out of any mobile or home rig. Most high impedance cans need a good beafy amplifier.
| Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually... ... the DV332 is not bad with my RS-1s - not as smooth as the Senns, but pretty good. Just a little rough here and there on some pieces. Same with the D5000s. But... in general its a bit better match with higher impedance phones. I would guess the Dv337 is similar... but... maybe not. |
It's like gardofan2 said;
most amps are either good with low impedance cans or with high impedance cans..most are better with high impedance cans, say 300-600 ohms. Low impedance cans start at about 32 ohms...most of the low impedance cans usually sound good right out of any mobile or home rig. Most high impedance cans need a good beafy amplifier.
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
FHuang/GradoFan2,
FHuang's findings for his AKG low impedance headphones not sounding optimal with the 337 are very consistent with mine. The K501 sound a bit dry and lifeless, for the most part, with the 337 (IMHE, less so with the 5998/5693 combination). With the GE 6080 or RCA 6AS7 black plates, the K501 were virtually unlistenable.
I'll add, too, that IMHO the D2000 sound better with the Bada as well, which seems to reinforce the possible/apparent high impedance "preference" of the 337. In addition to responding better to "leaner" amping w/the 337, the HD600 are also responding better to "leaner" cabling with the Millersound interconnects (copper clad aluminum) vs. the EVS PCOCC copper ones. When I say "responding better," I probably mean "gets the HD600 closer to the stock sound of the K501." : )
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the DV were voiced primarily for the HDxx0, and this is certainly being borne out in my experience. Since I prefer both the K501 (120 ohms) and D2000 (25 ohms) to the HD600 (300 ohms), this may mean the eventual sale of the 337.
Skylab runs his Darkvoice with the JVC HP-DX1000 (rated at 64 ohms) in his "Other Home Rig."
Again, with additional auditioning, the HD600 sound quite respectable with the Bada (with the selectable impedance switch set to "high") but noticably better with the Darkvoice 337.
I plan to do some more formal a/b-ing between the D2000 and the HD600 on both amps. Yesterday I heard the two with the Bada and preferred the D2000.
PAB
FHuang's findings for his AKG low impedance headphones not sounding optimal with the 337 are very consistent with mine. The K501 sound a bit dry and lifeless, for the most part, with the 337 (IMHE, less so with the 5998/5693 combination). With the GE 6080 or RCA 6AS7 black plates, the K501 were virtually unlistenable.
I'll add, too, that IMHO the D2000 sound better with the Bada as well, which seems to reinforce the possible/apparent high impedance "preference" of the 337. In addition to responding better to "leaner" amping w/the 337, the HD600 are also responding better to "leaner" cabling with the Millersound interconnects (copper clad aluminum) vs. the EVS PCOCC copper ones. When I say "responding better," I probably mean "gets the HD600 closer to the stock sound of the K501." : )
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the DV were voiced primarily for the HDxx0, and this is certainly being borne out in my experience. Since I prefer both the K501 (120 ohms) and D2000 (25 ohms) to the HD600 (300 ohms), this may mean the eventual sale of the 337.
Skylab runs his Darkvoice with the JVC HP-DX1000 (rated at 64 ohms) in his "Other Home Rig."
Again, with additional auditioning, the HD600 sound quite respectable with the Bada (with the selectable impedance switch set to "high") but noticably better with the Darkvoice 337.
I plan to do some more formal a/b-ing between the D2000 and the HD600 on both amps. Yesterday I heard the two with the Bada and preferred the D2000.
PAB
Skylab
Reviewerus Prolificus
The DV337 sounds great with the JVC and with my 80 ohm Darth Beyers. I thought it sounded pretty good even with the 27 ohm Denon D5000, but this was not the best combination. But the sound with the 70 ohm JVC DX1000 is heavenly
Mazuki
500+ Head-Fier
I agree with Skylab. My DX1000 sound amazing with my 337.
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Mazuli and Skylab are making me wish I had the DX1000! : )
At this point, though, I don't like the HD600 enough--or perhaps I simply haven't gotten to know them well enough--to warrant keeping the 337 solely to drive them [i.e. the Sennheisers].
At this point, though, I don't like the HD600 enough--or perhaps I simply haven't gotten to know them well enough--to warrant keeping the 337 solely to drive them [i.e. the Sennheisers].
Mazuki
500+ Head-Fier
The DX1000 is only an occasional indulgence though. The pleather pads get hot after a while. My reference headphones have always been '03 DT880s.
tourmaline
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Quote:
Hi pataburd,
tough call, but most people build a system around the headphone they like. Don't keep things you don't like or don't like enough to warrant huge costs.
By the way, the bada is at the shop again, dead. No signal at all.LOL.
So, i'll see what's broke this time, or, removing tubes within 2 minutes isn't a good idea.LOL.
If you like the denon D2000 best, build a system around that headphone.
Strange thing; no denon dealer has the D2000 or the D5000 headphones in stock or on display. It seems like it is an usa exclusive.
| Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mazuli and Skylab are making me wish I had the DX1000! : ) At this point, though, I don't like the HD600 enough--or perhaps I simply haven't gotten to know them well enough--to warrant keeping the 337 solely to drive them [i.e. the Sennheisers]. |
Hi pataburd,
tough call, but most people build a system around the headphone they like. Don't keep things you don't like or don't like enough to warrant huge costs.
By the way, the bada is at the shop again, dead. No signal at all.LOL.
So, i'll see what's broke this time, or, removing tubes within 2 minutes isn't a good idea.LOL.
If you like the denon D2000 best, build a system around that headphone.
Strange thing; no denon dealer has the D2000 or the D5000 headphones in stock or on display. It seems like it is an usa exclusive.
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
Ah, yes, the DT880/2003: one set of cans I'd like to re-audition, and the pair I perhaps regretted selling the most. As I recall, they sounded very, very nice with the DV336i, too! Endlessly extended highs, deep bass and a voluminous soundstage . . . : )
| Originally Posted by Mazuki /img/forum/go_quote.gif The DX1000 is only an occasional indulgence though. The pleather pads get hot after a while. My reference headphones have always been '03 DT880s. |
Ah, yes, the DT880/2003: one set of cans I'd like to re-audition, and the pair I perhaps regretted selling the most. As I recall, they sounded very, very nice with the DV336i, too! Endlessly extended highs, deep bass and a voluminous soundstage . . . : )
speaking about dt880. my dt880 600 ohm sounds kind of funny. not sure if you guys award of there's a thread about dt880 mid bass being too boomy and i agree. it almost overcome the wonderful mids of dt880. maybe 337 has too much power?
tourmaline
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Quote:
Same thing as with the hd650, if you don't have the right amp, the midbass can be overpowering, also dependant on the recordings you're listening too.
With the right amp, the hd650 is wonderfull, no bloated bass, veil, or slow.
As i said before, build a good rig around the headphone you like best. Rigs that half satisfy you, will never satisfy you at all.
| Originally Posted by fhuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif speaking about dt880. my dt880 600 ohm sounds kind of funny. not sure if you guys award of there's a thread about dt880 mid bass being too boomy and i agree. it almost overcome the wonderful mids of dt880. maybe 337 has too much power? |
Same thing as with the hd650, if you don't have the right amp, the midbass can be overpowering, also dependant on the recordings you're listening too.
With the right amp, the hd650 is wonderfull, no bloated bass, veil, or slow.
As i said before, build a good rig around the headphone you like best. Rigs that half satisfy you, will never satisfy you at all.
Mazuki
500+ Head-Fier
Quote:
I had a friend come over once (with really good ears) and comment that the DX1000 actually had brighter highs than my '03 DT880. I believe him as my DT880s have been through a lot of playing time since acquiring them in 2005 and the high ends starts dulling after a bit.
Quote:
The 337 isn't short of power, especially into that high impedance load. OTL tube amps have this reverse statistic (as opposed to SS amps) whereby the higher the speaker impedance, the more power the amp can deliver. eg. 2 watts into 4 ohms, 4 watts in 8 ohms.
That said, I think the source has significant impact overall. I have a TDA1541 DAC and the bass on the DT880s can be truly thunderous at times. Switching to a WM8740 DAC and a lot of the energy mellows out.
| Endlessly extended highs, deep bass and a voluminous soundstage . . . : ) |
I had a friend come over once (with really good ears) and comment that the DX1000 actually had brighter highs than my '03 DT880. I believe him as my DT880s have been through a lot of playing time since acquiring them in 2005 and the high ends starts dulling after a bit.
Quote:
| speaking about dt880. my dt880 600 ohm sounds kind of funny. not sure if you guys award of there's a thread about dt880 mid bass being too boomy and i agree. it almost overcome the wonderful mids of dt880. maybe 337 has too much power? |
The 337 isn't short of power, especially into that high impedance load. OTL tube amps have this reverse statistic (as opposed to SS amps) whereby the higher the speaker impedance, the more power the amp can deliver. eg. 2 watts into 4 ohms, 4 watts in 8 ohms.
That said, I think the source has significant impact overall. I have a TDA1541 DAC and the bass on the DT880s can be truly thunderous at times. Switching to a WM8740 DAC and a lot of the energy mellows out.
Skylab
Reviewerus Prolificus
The DX1000's do not have mellow highs, I agree, but they are "just right" with a good tube amp like the 337
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Boy, I sure would like to hear the DT880/2003 with the DV337, too! : )
FHuang, if your DT880 are the 2005 version, I can understand the "midbass bloat" issue. IMHO, Beyer tried to compensate for the slight recession in the lower midrange/upper bass of the 2003 version, but in the process lost the wonderful extension on both ends.
The Svetlanas are here! Just re-rigged the Darkvoice 337 with the Svetlana 6H13C and JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT, and changed the interconnects from Millersound (copper clad aluminum) to EVS (PCOCC). As a result, the D2000 sound better than before. The K501 still sound extremely disappointing. The HD600, as formerly best of the three on the 337, sound even better.
The Sennheisers seem to "do no wrong" with the 337: by far, the best match I've ever had with the HD600 [the 337]. Very open, but very "tight" at the same time, if you know what I mean. The HD600's bass is the most controlled I've heard; highs and mids are open and detailed; sense of air/space is enhanced with excellent separation; the overall presentation is exceptionally balanced.
While the HD600, IMHO, will never quite lose their "gentlemanly" character--after all, that's what makes them enjoyably Sennheiserish, they optimally undergo "assertiveness" training with Darkvoice. : ) I'm listening to The Dave Brubeck Quartet's "Time Out" (Columbia/Legacy SBM Remaster) right now and nothing is lacking with the (Cardas)HD600/DV337.
In all honesty, I'd probably just as much, perhaps even more enjoy this cd with the K501/Bada PH-12. Add the APS V3 onto the AKGs and it's a fon farewell to the HD600. . . : )
Seriously, the DV337-driven HD600 sound fantastic with these classic jazz tracks!
PAB
FHuang, if your DT880 are the 2005 version, I can understand the "midbass bloat" issue. IMHO, Beyer tried to compensate for the slight recession in the lower midrange/upper bass of the 2003 version, but in the process lost the wonderful extension on both ends.
The Svetlanas are here! Just re-rigged the Darkvoice 337 with the Svetlana 6H13C and JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT, and changed the interconnects from Millersound (copper clad aluminum) to EVS (PCOCC). As a result, the D2000 sound better than before. The K501 still sound extremely disappointing. The HD600, as formerly best of the three on the 337, sound even better.
The Sennheisers seem to "do no wrong" with the 337: by far, the best match I've ever had with the HD600 [the 337]. Very open, but very "tight" at the same time, if you know what I mean. The HD600's bass is the most controlled I've heard; highs and mids are open and detailed; sense of air/space is enhanced with excellent separation; the overall presentation is exceptionally balanced.
While the HD600, IMHO, will never quite lose their "gentlemanly" character--after all, that's what makes them enjoyably Sennheiserish, they optimally undergo "assertiveness" training with Darkvoice. : ) I'm listening to The Dave Brubeck Quartet's "Time Out" (Columbia/Legacy SBM Remaster) right now and nothing is lacking with the (Cardas)HD600/DV337.
In all honesty, I'd probably just as much, perhaps even more enjoy this cd with the K501/Bada PH-12. Add the APS V3 onto the AKGs and it's a fon farewell to the HD600. . . : )
Seriously, the DV337-driven HD600 sound fantastic with these classic jazz tracks!
PAB
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