Ayre Acoustics "Codex" DAC/Headphone Amp
Sep 28, 2016 at 1:24 AM Post #571 of 856
Um yeah - I don't know what set him off, but it certainly wasn't my intent. I was not complaining at all.
 
In fact, I wanted to convey some info that perhaps people were not aware of. I happen to love the sound of the Codex, and am frankly surprised they can achieve it with a bus-powered DAC section!
 
It is also relevant in the context of some USB tweaking I'm doing, using Intona and W4S Recovery for isolation and reclocking. This fact about the Codex suggests another potential tweak, i.e. to feed a clean 5V from an external LPS using a split USB cable.
 
I will be playing with that and report back.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 3:59 AM Post #572 of 856
I am just mad at the company to be honest. first of all the codex has some hardware issues that I do not think they care to address. beyond that they say one thing and later another. furthermore they like to avoid specs entirely claiming the "sound speaks for itself". that's great but it is nice to knoe what all exactly you are paying that much for. if they can make it sound great with $5 of components than they should sell it for $100. i do not dispute the sound. their corporate methodology has just really upset me. i am sorry i was so harsh i was just really upset. look, we all have bad days. i will remain with my feling that every piece of theirs sounds darn jolly. i am just upset with them on a personal level for not being forthright. they in essence are correct that all that matters is the sound but it makes me feel like they have something to hide. how they got the qx-5 twenty to sound like that with a 9038pro is beyond me. it sounds better than most r2r dacs but that does not dispell my now unfortunate distrust of them. yes, it is very unfortunate i do not trust them right now because it all in fact sounds extremely good. i do feel if you look very carefully you can get competing components for a little less money but it is just like grado. if you like the sound best there is nothing else. i do apologize that i went off on them. i should not have done that in public. i just got so fed up with them evading or reinventing their specs at every turn. again, it is just about specs not the sound! i most certainly do not dispute the sound. i got mad and in the heat of the moment i flew off the deep end. rest assured what i said about all their components remains true. they all sound great. really great. i guess in essence i got mad for no reason. they are sort of right that it is the sound that matters. it just made mad that they cannot get their facts straight. alex had told me it absolutely does not use bus power but i new long ago it did. then finally he provides the correct information. that was the final straw for me. it has nothing to do with the sound. i know i partially attacked the sound above but that on my part is not true. i was just furious. maybe for no real good reason. not sure. i just prefer companies that release specs. regardless of how it sounds. i do apologize that i went so far with my distaste however. i hope you guy's will give me a break for a bad day. the truth is i have not yet sold any of it but i am strongly thinking of doing so. i am being honest.i was not really at first. i was just very upset at that moment. i am sorry.
 
 
oh, btw i was using a split linear powered high end usb supply all the time because i already knew this.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 8:55 AM Post #573 of 856
on a more positive note. i had asked a number of people to score the qb- dsd,codex and qx-5 twenty from 1-100 solely as dacs. no dbt because i feel the mind is what allowes us to hear what we do.
16 people participated. the codex scored 7% better than the qb-9 dsd. the qx-5 twenty scored 21% better than the codex. if the qx-5 twenty was, say $3,000 that would be a worthy upgrade as a dac. it of course is much more than a dac but was measured solely as a dac. if one only wants a dac the codex appears to be the best value.I think honestly i will look into the mytek manhattan 2. it uses a 9038 pro and is very nice. since i only want a dac i really do not need to pay much more for features i do not use. i think the mytek might make it since the qx-5 is not a huge margin over the codex as a dac. it is certainly a better dac but not by leaps and bounds. the previous reviewer using terms such as "bonkers" does not mean anything to me but no offense to him. we all hear differently. of course some scored lower and higher but those are the averages. the codex is a great value. i do maintain it beat certain $5000+ dacs. I was just mad at ayre not their product and maybe it was unfounded. i did apologize for getting upset about specs and i still do apologize. it remains a terrific dac, even in a uber high end system.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 8:45 PM Post #574 of 856
You are entitled to your opinion. No need to apologize. For that kind of money you should just love it. It is all subjective. A wise man once told me, if you can't hear the difference between two units get the cheaper one. There are days when it all seems like nonsense. Codex is positioned pretty well. I would have bought it but I wanted a remote control. I needed the inputs. End of story.

I always get all theoretical on forums. It should do this, and it should do that. But then my ears tell me something different. You have to trust your ears.

I heard the $55,000 Sennheiser HE-1 yesterday. It was probably about as good as headphones are going to get, but still, it is not a holy grail or anything.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 8:48 PM Post #575 of 856
I completely understand Music_man's pain and using the codex has really been a love hate relationship for me as well. At this point, I'm at peace and accepted its flaws. At the end of the day, I'm not going to find a DAC this good at this price point. I do agree that the codex does seem like something Ayre slap together with no real support. That's too bad since there is a real opportunity for Ayre to do well in the HP amp/dac market.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 10:30 PM Post #576 of 856
I am glad you guys understand. i figured i was way off base here. it is just my feelings. i am mad at them because of those exact reasons, cygnusx. plus they don't want to supply specs on anything and when they do they often later correct themselves in a disappointing manner. laying on the statement it is how it sounds not the specs. for the big buck pieces i like to know what is in it. odd there are no internal pictures of the codex on the internet that i know of. i do actually think there is competition at nearly 2 grand depending on your own ears. AS you said it is a shame they semingly slapped it together and hardly support it. wrong market for them i guess. that is why i think there is competition in some places for around the same price. can't think of one right now as i am not really keeping up with this. i wonder if they will do another or abandon this. they discontinued the qb-9 dsd so i have no idea what they are thinking.
 
so you heard the he-1? wow! i wish i could hear it. the thing is though it might be the best headphone but isn't it too expensive? i mean if it was like 15 grand for the best headphone that would be fair imo. if you say it is not a grail that means you could get similar for less i suppose. maybe sr009.
 
as i said for the small system i might try the mytek manhattan 2. or something else don't know. as you do know codex pops and clicks, loses sync. qx-5 twenty i feel as just a dac is not incredibly beter than the codex. so too much money there.
 
i am just glad you guys did not get furious with me because i feel i have valid points about it. i am sorry i went nuts about it though.
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 2:10 AM Post #577 of 856
i figured since i went off maybe i could help some people here. since the device is in fact bus powered you can make a good improvement depending how much noise you have. probably a lot like most pc's. i like ifi's stuff but cannot recommend it due to their often untimely demise. so, what you can do. i will mention everywhere with the best prices on what you will need. there is no assembly it is plug and play. first go to abt and get the aqdioquest jitterbug and dragon tail. this will go into the usb port on your computer. try to use a usb port with nothing else on that controller. then go to cdw and get a startech usb hub with a type-a usb input. now go to music direct and get a .75 or 1.5 meter cardas clear usb cable. this will go from the jitter bug to the startech hubs input. now you will need a linear power supply to power the startech hub. either go to mouser and get one or better find an old radioshack regulated universal psu. if you do that set it at 4.5 volts. do not use any of the other ports on the hub. you will need to get a psu with the right size plug for the hub or correct adaptaplug if you go with the radioshack. now go back to musicdirect and depending on the sound signature of your system either get a cardas clear usb cable or an audioquest carbon in the length you need to reach your dac from the hub. i would try to suspend the hub so it is not on the ground or a table. otherwise put it on a cork drink coaster from walmart or a piece of foam rubber. plug the psu directly into a good surge strip or ups. i recommend an isobar from tripp lite. depending on how much noise you have this should make a subtle to a large improvement. The downside is depending on how long cables you need this is going to cost between $300 and $650. similar to what it would cost using the ifi equivalent but much less likely to quit working. if you have a lot of noise which you probably do this dac is in fact eating it and is is badly affecting your sound. so this should be a worthwhile investment. it is bs that they said originally that it was non bus powered. in that case you could forgo this additional investment.i would also put the codex on it's side and use the vibration isolation blocks i mentioned elsewhere available at lowes. however if you are not using balanced headphones or balanced outs in the rear you are not getting nearly what the codex is capable of anyways. if you are strictly using se this is not really worth the investment. with these improvements the codex easily beats many dacs costing 4-5X it's price but not all of them. of course also use good audio or headphone cables of your choosing.  i am just fed up with ayre as a company. it remains with these improvements the codex punches well above it's price point. it still has quirks and they do not care. if you are stuck with it and have yet to take these steps it will probably be very worthwhile to you. the thing is now it is not $1,700 it is at least $2,000. still, you will be hard pressed to get anything anywhere near this price that performs as it does.
 
as for the qx-5 twenty to me it is too much money in retrospect because i use almost none of the additional features and simply use it as a dac. as i said it is better than the codex as a dac but not tremendously. you are mainly looking at a newer better chip. that is why i am considering the mytek manhattan 2. i will see how it stacks up to the qx-5 just as a dac. there of course will be other nice offerings with the 9038pro. if you cannot get out of the codex than these improvements may be worthwhile to you. i think with these improvements implemented it greatly closes the gap in sq between the codex and qx-5. not entirely though but solely as a dac i think there will be comparable offerings for less money. a big part of the ayre sound is their curve if you are keeping the codex for whatevewr reason, with these improvements it is still considered by myself to be at the higher end of the range of dacs. without all this it is of course still very good. you can most likely improve it quite a bit though. even with the quirks and lack of support it remains a top contender at it's price. even exceeding much more expensive offerings. i think you will also find there are less issues with ramped up usb power. so that is another plus of doing this. no, we should not have to do this and it is optional but unfortunately dacs like this tend to benefit from it a lot. plus it may well fix some of the issues. this just goes to more reason that i am mad at ayre as a company. they make good products but i am unhappy with their "policies". that is all.
 
i do wonder if they will abandon this, continue it's development or offer a different product. now that they have discontinued the qb-9. time will tell. i do find the codex to sound a little better than the qb-9 as is. that happens with the evolution of the chipset. thus greatly in part why the qx-5 is better imo. i do not really think it is their other "magic" and there is not a huge gap between them as dacs. there is most certainly some gap though. which i mostly attribute to the 9038pro which others may disagree on. with the qx-5 you are paying for much more than simply a dac. it is a network streaming device among other things. i just want a dac and feel i can obtain one for less money. not to mention i am just fed up with ayre on a personal level. for one thing as with the codex the qx-5 uses the same vastly outdated drivers. i just feel as if they don't really care. that is just my opinion though everyone else is certainly entitled to their own.
 
well, i hope i at least helped someone here with the suggested improvements.
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 5:48 PM Post #579 of 856
I think that Ayre will make a DAC only product at a lower price point eventually. The problem is that there's a huge price gap between the QX-5 and the Codex. I bet there are a lot of audiophiles in your situation (myself included) who don't particularly care for the streaming and headphone amp features. I know that Mr. Hansen was thinking of making a two box product (DAC + transport) initially.

On another note, I've listened to the Mytek Brooklyn at the CAF and did not find the sound that compelling. If that experience is indicative of the Mytek house sound, you might find the new Manhattan similarly lackluster. I currently have a DAC (Cayin iDAC-6) as part of a review tour that sounds remarkably close to my C-5xeMP, as far as initial impressions go. It lacks a smidge of clarity and imaging isn't as precise, but it nails instrumental and vocal timbres like an Ayre component. It might suit your bedroom system well as it's smaller than the QX-5, but it does throw off quite a bit of heat as it has a tube buffer output stage.
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 7:18 PM Post #580 of 856
Look guys, nothing's changed vis-a-vis the SQ of the Codex. Yes, it is not perfect.
 
But - if you liked it so much a month ago, it's not like something significantly better has come along at this price point to displace it. You mentioned the Brooklyn, which is very interesting to hear. I have auditioned the Simaudio 230HAD, the Questyle CMA-600i, and the Sennheiser HDVD-800. None could beat out the Codex.
 
For me, the way I look at, the Codex's limitations have to be weighed in context:
  1. I've upgraded to a Cavalli Liquid Gold amp, so at this point, the amp in the Codex is redundant to me. Sure - I would love a DAC-only Ayre product at $2k,  but until that happens, I'm happy with the Codex.
  2. I was surprised to learn the DAC section was bus-powered. Frankly, I'm even more impressed now that a bus-powered DAC can sound this good. But now I see it as an opportunity to improve the sound using a good LPS to power the USB. Hopefully, it'll make a great DAC sound even better.
  3. Yes, I don't like the ticks and pops at track boundaries and sample rate changes. But I have workarounds, and it's just not a show stopper for me.
 
So - a little perspective, is all I ask!
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 6:41 PM Post #581 of 856
I was just mad. it was me. i should not have lashed out like that. the codex sounds outstanding for it's price. that does remain true. i was just mad with ayre on a personal level but not their products per se. i don't like some of their methodology but that does not really change the product any. it remains that the codex sounds very good and the qx-5 twenty sounds a good deal better still. i guess there stance on audio in general confuses me but they do know how to make good sounding products. they should make just a small dac for say $3k that is simply an outstanding dac. perhaps they will with the now absent qb-9 dsd. i am not mad anymore. i guess what set me off was the bus power because alex had told me it was not bus powered. that does not really even matter because it still sounds good. if you isolate the power to it it will sound even better. closing the gap to the qx-5 twenty. although it will never make it quite there with a 9018. plus the qx-5 twenty has a better output section. it is kind of a waste for me i did not touch those features on it once yet. not even headphones. i am just using the qx-5 twenty as a dac and it is haphazardly placed here. the sound cannot be disputed however. i wonder if the qx-5 twenty is bus powered but i do not think we ever get a straight story from ayre. that is what set me off but i sincerely apologize. i was just mad about communication with them not any of their products. i did bash the products because i flew off the rocker but that was completely unfounded on my part.
 
mink70, i imagine you said something nasty to me and quite frankly i deserve it so that is okay if you did.
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:27 PM Post #582 of 856
It's easy to tell if the QX-5 is bus powered as an earlier poster alluded. Turn the DAC off and unplug it. Keep the USB input connected to the PC. If it still shows up as a connected device then the USB module is drawing power from the computer. The QB-9 disappears from my list of connected peripherals if I pull out the power cord. (There is no power switch.)
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 11:42 PM Post #583 of 856
yeah. just tried it. it is not. that is crummy they did that with the codex. why i got so mad. it is cheap for ayre but not cheap. i have to pull out the codex and try it but i am sure it is.
 
Oct 2, 2016 at 3:23 AM Post #584 of 856
the codex is indeed bus powered. did not dissapear but the qx-5 twenty did. they made a lower end piece here. it sounds good and is very small but not sure if there is something better nearly as compact. it is certainly reference quality and a+ rated but the qx-5 twenty is a good deal better. i just don't use any of the features. not sure about mytek either was just a guess. now my windows 10 is missing the audio control applet which is a bit of a problem. may have to reinstall. i bet from unplugging it too. if you just supply the codex with good power bus powered really makes no difference. i would recommend ifi but they have been dying on people. i also noticed on the codex a poor 44.1 source sounds better upsampled to 192,000. dsd sounds worse though. dsd sounds good if the file is dsd of course.
 
Oct 5, 2016 at 3:34 PM Post #585 of 856
I came across this positive mention of the Codex in this Stereophile review of the $3995
T+A Elektroakustik DAC 8 DSD D/A processor.

 
"I also did some headphone listening while the Codex was still here, and on this count I give a slight edge to the Ayre, but only in balanced mode. (The DAC 8 DSD has only an unbalanced headphone jack.) Soundstage depth was slightly more apparent, but through Audeze's LCD-X headphones with the levels matched and using both DACs unbalanced revealed no clear winner. With headphones, both the Ayre and the T+A bettered the Benchmark DAC2 HGC DAC, which sounded thinner than either."
 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/ta-elektroakustik-dac-8-dsd-da-processor-page-2#dq7uAbRq7e3jGiGE.97
 

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