Available - RSA "The Black Bird" SR-71A, Redesigned, Resized AMP images page 1,28, 33, 34, 39 . Mini review: 40, 41, 45 .
Aug 7, 2008 at 2:00 PM Post #181 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwallace /img/forum/go_quote.gif
...you'll have to concede that hiring one or two more workers could address supply issues.


Please by all means try & get Xin to take on more workers. I have waited exactly one year to the day for my SuperMicro IV
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 2:55 PM Post #182 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwallace /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Additionally modern mass production doesn't necessarily translate into lower quality -- there's a reason your shirts are no longer made with a spinning jenny.


Anyhow if my ideas seem grandiose you'll have to concede that hiring one or two more workers could address supply issues.




On the topic of shirts take a company like Eddie Bauer - they used to make great shirts, then they got taken over and quality went to mediocre in a hurry as they moved into the shopping malls of America. Ditto for North Face. Same thing in Canada for Mark's Work Warehouse.

Also, when you address the supply side issue by producing a glut of product you also destroy the resale value of the product. Take the Grado ps-1 as an example. Low production and a high resale value.

Watch America over the next decade as they realize the cost of your pump and dump business model comes back home to roost.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 3:03 PM Post #183 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by frozenice /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Watch America over the next decade as they realize the cost of your pump and dump business model comes back home to roost.


Who said anything about pump and dump? You're putting words in my mouth.

Thank God an insolent, disrespectful wet blanket like you wasn't speaking negativity into Bill Gate's ears in 1980 or we'd still be using the C64.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 3:16 PM Post #184 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwallace /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Who said anything about pump and dump? You're putting words in my mouth.

Thank God an insolent, disrespectful wet blanket like you wasn't speaking negativity into Bill Gate's ears in 1980 or we'd still be using the C64.



I've always used a Mac and the world is finally coming around to the obvious. As they will to everything else I have to say. I'm not here to be a wet blanket on your your super big party and I'm sure not interested in cleaning up the aftermath either.

Economic cycles exists and you only have three choices (1) moderate the highs and the lows (2) do nothing and (3) drive the highs higher and then have a big crash out the other side.

Parabolic up = parabolic down.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 3:28 PM Post #185 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by frozenice /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've always used a Mac and the world is finally coming around to the obvious. As they will to everything else I have to say. I'm not here to be a wet blanket on your your super big party and I'm sure not interested in cleaning up the aftermath either.


Ah, now I see that (unjustified) arrogance is the basis for your not-so veiled attacks.

But as you can't seem to keep a civil tongue in your mouth (this after a PM last night telling you implicitly that you'll not disrespect me) then you're not worthy of further attention.

As E.E. Cummings wrote, we doctors know a hopeless case if [we see one.]
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM Post #186 of 674
Is cheaper and faster always better?

I am more than willing to pay more, and wait patiently, for a product made by a talented designer and artisan like RS.

Also, I would rather give my money to a small operation, where I get to deal directly with the person responsible for quality of the product.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 3:53 PM Post #187 of 674
Most always when a big company comes into play they get the bean counters into the mix and there goes the heart of the business and the whole reason for it existing.

Ray does it from start to finish with no one dictating what will and won't happen with this component or that one and "hey this one is cheaper and they slipped me a nice gift so go with that supplier". No, something always seems to be lost when a biggy gets hold of something and there goes the magic that made the product different to begin with.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM Post #188 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Most always when a big company comes into play they get the bean counters into the mix and there goes the heart of the business and the whole reason for it existing.

Ray does it from start to finish with no one dictating what will and won't happen with this component or that one and "hey this one is cheaper and they slipped me a nice gift so go with that supplier". No, something always seems to be lost when a biggy gets hold of something and there goes the magic that made the product different to begin with.



These are valid points, however mass production and expansion of a business does not always equate to degraded quality. The variables you're leaving out are:

1) stewardship -- say you keep Ray in charge of the venture in all aspects with 100% control over all decisions. Whether he'd make short cuts is debatable, but certainly not likely given the 2nd variable;

2) competition -- with so many players in the segment he'd have to maintain quality in order to keep his market share, especially at the premium price point he currently commands, and

3) innovation -- under the current boutique business model innovation is very slow. The time it takes to bring a new product to market is measured in months. If your operation were structured to go from design to production in days and weeks rather than months you'd be better positioned to bring new technology (Pico) to the market ahead of your competitors thereby stealing their clients. A perfect example of this is the SR71a. How many people are on the Pico waiting list who will instead buy a SR71a if it becomes available earlier (I count myself in this group).

Lastly there are examples of a business going from a small, hand made operation to a successful, high tech conglomerate without sacrificing quality. I for one am glad Jobs and Wozniak came out of the garage in 1976. Sure the bean counters screwed things up for a while (OS 9...) but Jobs came back and got things back on track in both quality, customer service and innovation (taking NeXT to OS X and consolidating the product line -- getting rid of the 10 billion peripheral devices and focusing on the core lines with an emphasis on quality.)

Only a Luddite would argue that Apple would be better off today if the two Steves were still in the Jobs' family garage.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 5:21 PM Post #189 of 674
Ok, but most of the times the allure of a company goes down the tubes. I have been involved with some other companies and have seen this over and over.

Headphone amps are more of a niche market and will never have the wide audience appeal or need of something like computers. I still think it is the personal touch that brings about the magic of the individual sound of good amps. Sony brought out the 777 and the SCD-1 and as good as they were there were still restraints so after market companies brought them to new heights. We are talking about finesse not just appeal to mass markets.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 6:08 PM Post #190 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwallace /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Wombat: that's a good analysis, however most of your points can be overcome with advertising (e.g., targeting a headphone demographic like the readers of Wired or Rolling Stone.) If people will buy a "Chia Pet," they'll buy amps.

An example of effective advertising in this segment is the Bose QuietComfort headphones. They sell a lot of those, enough to subsidize a media blitz, a campaign that educated people regarding the necessity of noise cancellation -- a valid need for many people who travel, use mass transit to commute or work in an office.

Additionally modern mass production doesn't necessarily translate into lower quality -- there's a reason your shirts are no longer made with a spinning jenny.

On customer service, the boutique model is connected with the assiduity of the owner, and in the case of Xin this has proved unsatisfactory.

Anyhow if my ideas seem grandiose you'll have to concede that hiring one or two more workers could address supply issues.



I guess I will further this discussion because there has been no new information about the SR-71a. Ray, if you're tired of such posts, please throw us a bone - or a picture of two (of the amp).

It would indeed be lovely if we could prod Xin to up his productivity, and I'm sure extra help has crossed his mind. Dr Xin mentioned he once went to China to teach villagers how to solder. Perhaps they could solder his amps for us. However, no Xin amp clones have surfaced, so maybe there are reasons he operates on such a small scale. Xin products do not rely on very exotic parts, so cloning could be a concern.

Bose takes a marketing approach that is hard to duplicate. They market products that do not require a leap of faith when it comes to utility and purpose (e.g. active noise cancellation, compact speakers - not exactly raising the bar here). They then bombard you with drivel about their superior technology and ownership experience.

For the SR-71a, you have a cadre of semi-pro buyers who have committed to purchasing a SR-71a sight unseen and hiss unheard. They are already convinced the SR-71a meets a need - a perception the general public does not share.

If Bose tried to sell headphone amplifiers, it would likely fail. It is hard to convince the average Joe that a SR-71a has any value at all. He'd rather buy a Wave Radio for the price. Think a sales associate at Best Buy would know how to demo a SR-71a?

But examples of mass-produced audiophile products with excellent performance and customer service do exist - e.g. professional audio: Sennheiser/Neumann, AKG, etc. Such audiophile products sell well not because consumers need them. Professional audio gear sells because consumers buy CDs, DVDs, etc.

I assume Dr Xin and Ray Samuels have already figured out how to maximize their profit for their respective business models and goals, and unfortunately it does not entail mass production. They are experienced businessmen who have found ways to thrive despite economic uncertainty worldwide, so they must know a thing or two.

Most people are just not that fussy about sound. You'll see posts and threads about Head-Fiers having a hard time convincing their spouses to buy another headamp - even when the spouse gets to use it, even if it results in the Head-Fier staying safely at home with headphones.

The masses want to own American Apparel or Coach. Ray Samuels people want to own a Hermes Birkin bag. Xin people - what are they thinking?
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 6:31 PM Post #191 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by trickywombat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I guess I will further this discussion because there has been no new information about the SR-71a. Ray, if you're tired of such posts, please throw us a bone - or a picture of two (of the amp).

It would indeed be lovely if we could prod Xin to up his productivity, and I'm sure extra help has crossed his mind. Dr Xin mentioned he once went to China to teach villagers how to solder. Perhaps they could solder his amps for us. However, no Xin amp clones have surfaced, so maybe there are reasons he operates on such a small scale. Xin products do not rely on very exotic parts, so cloning could be a concern.

Bose takes a marketing approach that is hard to duplicate. They market products that do not require a leap of faith when it comes to utility and purpose (e.g. active noise cancellation, compact speakers - not exactly raising the bar here). They then bombard you with drivel about their superior technology and ownership experience.

For the SR-71a, you have a cadre of semi-pro buyers who have committed to purchasing a SR-71a sight unseen and hiss unheard. They are already convinced the SR-71a meets a need - a perception the general public does not share.

If Bose tried to sell headphone amplifiers, it would likely fail. It is hard to convince the average Joe that a SR-71a has any value at all. He'd rather buy a Wave Radio for the price. Think a sales associate at Best Buy would know how to demo a SR-71a?

But examples of mass-produced audiophile products with excellent performance and customer service do exist - e.g. professional audio: Sennheiser/Neumann, AKG, etc. Such audiophile products sell well not because consumers need them. Professional audio gear sells because consumers buy CDs, DVDs, etc.

I assume Dr Xin and Ray Samuels have already figured out how to maximize their profit for their respective business models and goals, and unfortunately it does not entail mass production. They are experienced businessmen who have found ways to thrive despite economic uncertainty worldwide, so they must know a thing or two.

Most people are just not that fussy about sound. You'll see posts and threads about Head-Fiers having a hard time convincing their spouses to buy another headamp - even when the spouse gets to use it, even if it results in the Head-Fier staying safely at home with headphones.

The masses want to own American Apparel or Coach. Ray Samuels people want to own a Hermes Birkin bag. Xin people - what are they thinking?



Cute. Using this bunny trail to extort further info out of Ray? I can see that your nickname is well deserved! Anyhow, I was getting ready to wrap it up but since you're game...:

You've introduced a new element to this, designer paranoia. A valid point but let's face it, if the Russians can duplicate the space shuttle any headphone amp could conceivably be reverse engineered without the introduction of some sneaky factory worker stealing your schematics. Plus paranoia is a sign of dementia. Is loss of intellectual property a risk? Yep. But a necessary one if you're interested in profit.

Again another interesting point you raise: that Xin and Ray are making money with their current model, and they're happy so what? Well I'm not so sure Xin is a happy camper. All those unfulfilled back orders and the money he's already taken probably equates to a fair amount of stress, that is assuming he's a man of integrity (a point that is currently being debated on this board, ergo the moderator warning threads...).

Again, you focus on Ray and Xin and how they feel. Really nothing personal, but when I introduced this line into the thread (jamato8: my apologies, I did not intend it to be thread crapping) I was not taking into account the comfort level of Ray, Justin and Xin -- rather I was focusing on the palpable frustrations of the head-fi.org community whose consumer ambitions were being thwarted either by greed (Ultimate Ears shameless price gouging, to whit the UE11 Pro) or archaic business models that are clearly failing to meet demand.

One example was raised to counter this notion (of unrequited consumer demand) that the Predator did not meet sales expectations on launch and a $50 rebate was offered. I would say that the reason the Predator didn't sell is the reason it is still slow to sell. Too expensive, better alternatives (Pico w/ DAC), 1,000 hour burn in? Please... Even the most novice Craig's list seller quickly learns market fundamentals if he wants to move his junk. Specifically, the market = what people will pay. Price your product too high and no or low sales.

At any rate another "fact" (read: assumption unsubstantiated with data or sufficiently persusaive rhetoric) you've asserted is that headphone amps will always be a niche product. I disagree. Again with 7 Billion consumers (granted many of them get by on a dollar a day) there is a massive untapped market. I don't care if you're selling sheep shearers. All that is required is an advertising campaign that convinces people that they need this product to achieve self actualization (read: in American that means b(o)(o)bs). So you strap a Pico to a scantily clad Paris Hilton and let her wiggle around on a bar top to some bassy techno and BAM, you got 10,000 orders within a week.

Look at the American automotive industry. They make a junk product but they then spend millions in advertising dollars. The danger is that reality catches up with the BS and people wise up to the fact that they have been hand and their POS Chevy is not going to outlast the warranty.

Bose on the other hand (while not technically audiophile grade... insert Bose Joke HERE: Buy Other Sound Equipment, BOSE: no highs, no lows, BOSE, blah blah..) delivers a decent product -- that is the reality of their product does not differ materially from their advertising. Hence they MAINTAIN marketshare through consumer loyalty.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 6:53 PM Post #192 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwallace /img/forum/go_quote.gif
One example was raised to counter this notion (of unrequited consumer demand) that the Predator did not meet sales expectations on launch and a $50 rebate was offered. I would say that the reason the Predator didn't sell is the reason it is still slow to sell. Too expensive, better alternatives (Pico w/ DAC), 1,000 hour burn in? Please... Even the most novice Craig's list seller quickly learns market fundamentals if he wants to move his junk. Specifically, the market = what people will pay. Price your product too high and no or low sales.



The Predator didn't sell/is a slow seller? The Pico is a better alternative?
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 7:33 PM Post #193 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by trickywombat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The masses want to own American Apparel or Coach. Ray Samuels people want to own a Hermes Birkin bag. Xin people - what are they thinking?


Lol....your previous posts x3. If you want to see a pic of the 71a PCB without a case...
IMG_0579.jpg

Lower right, hooked up to the Classic. That's a blue Predator to the left.
 
Aug 7, 2008 at 7:36 PM Post #194 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Most always when a big company comes into play they get the bean counters into the mix and there goes the heart of the business and the whole reason for it existing.

Ray does it from start to finish with no one dictating what will and won't happen with this component or that one and "hey this one is cheaper and they slipped me a nice gift so go with that supplier". No, something always seems to be lost when a biggy gets hold of something and there goes the magic that made the product different to begin with.



Agreed.

Take heart and soul from behind the product and within a very short time, it ceases to exist.

I say, "Keep 'em waitin', Ray."
 
Aug 8, 2008 at 1:00 AM Post #195 of 674
Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Predator didn't sell/is a slow seller? The Pico is a better alternative?



Can't answer your first question.
Can answer your second question. Yes.
 

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