[alekc]

i have tried different amps and sources,it changes the sound of the NHC considerably.
for my part i like them more and more.

Indeed. I am yet to find amp that would not pair well with NH/NOs. Maybe some very bright and dry chi-fi stuff that I have very limited experience with? To backup a bit my claim: I prefer Mojo with NH/NOs than Q5s.

 

[dakanao]

Pads change sound.
Cables, even very expensive ones, don't.
Definitely try EQ.
With EQ you can do anything. Even keep the original pleather pads and make them sound like the micro-suede pads. Or make the Nighthawk sound like any other headphone thanks to AutoEQ. Everything's possible.

Please, don’t spread misinformation. I know you’re coming from ASR where they believe all DACs and amps sound the same and other nonsense, but don’t post it here.

Even if you EQ 2 headphones to sound exactly the same through measurements, they won’t sound the same. This is simply due to distortion charicateristics and phase response from one headphone to the next. One headphone might have smooth highs at a certain quantity, while another more distorted headphone will have the same amount of highs in quantity, but the quality will be harsher.

Same if you EQ two headphones that both have the same distortion, but a different phase response, to an identical fr response, they will sound different. The headphone with the more diffuse phase response will sound wider and more distant in the soundstage vs the other headphone that has a more aligned phase response.

Even EQ between 2 earpads on the same headphone won’t sound the same, simply due to the resonance characteristics of the earpad itself. If you EQ a pleather and velour pad to the same response, the velour pad will have faster decay and less resonance in the transients, thus sounding smoother.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Please, don’t spread misinformation. I know you’re coming from ASR where they believe all DACs and amps sound the same and other nonsense, but don’t post it here.

Even if you EQ 2 headphones to sound exactly the same through measurements, they won’t sound the same. This is simply due to distortion charicateristics and phase response from one headphone to the next. One headphone might have smooth highs at a certain quantity, while another more distorted headphone will have the same amount of highs in quantity, but the quality will be harsher.

Same if you EQ two headphones that both have the same distortion, but a different phase response, to an identical fr response, they will sound different. The headphone with the more diffuse phase response will sound wider and more distant in the soundstage vs the other headphone that has a more aligned phase response.

Even EQ between 2 earpads on the same headphone won’t sound the same, simply due to the resonance characteristics of the earpad itself. If you EQ a pleather and velour pad to the same response, the velour pad will have faster decay and less resonance in the transients, thus sounding smoother.

Please, don't even try to lecture me on anything. Seriously, don't even try. I know that we are on Head-Fi where they believe that magic exists and other nonsense, but don't tell me anything that can't be backed up with real world measurements. Just don't.

As for the rest of your post, actually I agree with you, because what you said is actually scientific evidence, not magic. But read me again : I never said that you could make one headphone sound EXACTLY like another. That is of course impossible. Just like it's impossible to get a perfect FR when equalizing a room with DRC software.

Headphone drivers and other physical characteristics are of course different and you can't change that. You can however use AutoEQ to make a headphone sound like another (not EXACTLY like another, but quite like another), and even adjust things manually afterwards to your liking. Of course that's not possible with all headphones, and some have more potential than others for that kind of operation. If your headphone has good drivers to start with (like the Nighthawk has), then you have already a good part of the potential to "imitate" many other headphones with it. Of course you can't imitate an open headphone with a closed headphone and vice-versa. Some things are impossible, but I thought that was obvious.

You can also make one pair of earpads sound quite like another, but not EXACTLY like another. I thought that was obvious too. But again, for most people it will be "good enough".

 

[Art Garfunkel]

Please, don't even try to lecture me on anything. Seriously, don't even try. I know that we are on Head-Fi where they believe that magic exists and other nonsense, but don't tell me anything that can't be backed up with real world measurements. Just don't.

 

[dakanao]

Please, don't even try to lecture me on anything. Seriously, don't even try. I know that we are on Head-Fi where they believe that magic exists and other nonsense, but don't tell me anything that can't be backed up with real world measurements. Just don't.

As for the rest of your post, actually I agree with you, because what you said is actually scientific evidence, not magic. But read me again : I never said that you could make one headphone sound EXACTLY like another. That is of course impossible. Just like it's impossible to get a perfect FR when equalizing a room with DRC software.

Headphone drivers and other physical characteristics are of course different and you can't change that. You can however use AutoEQ to make a headphone sound like another (not EXACTLY like another, but quite like another), and even adjust things manually afterwards to your liking. Of course that's not possible with all headphones, and some have more potential than others for that kind of operation. If your headphone has good drivers to start with (like the Nighthawk has), then you have already a good part of the potential to "imitate" many other headphones with it. Of course you can't imitate an open headphone with a closed headphone and vice-versa. Some things are impossible, but I thought that was obvious.

You can also make one pair of earpads sound quite like another, but not EXACTLY like another. I thought that was obvious too. But again, for most people it will be "good enough".

Well, there’s a fine line between graphs and understanding them in the real world vs thinking everything sounds the same because it measures the same in critical areas like FR response and THD. Most of the people in ASR fall into the 2nd category in my experience with them.

Also, cables do sound different because of interference shielding and impedance differences.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Well, there’s a fine line between graphs and understanding them in the real world vs thinking everything sounds the same because it measures the same in critical areas like FR response and THD. Most of the people in ASR fall into the 2nd category in my experience with them.

Also, cables do sound different because of interference shielding and impedance differences.

No they don't. Not in a way that can be heard.
No offense, but here's what the doctor ordered :

1. Read this again.
2. Repeat until you get it.
3. Let's avoid these discussions. It's a complete waste of time for both sides.

 

[kman1211]

Well, there’s a fine line between graphs and understanding them in the real world vs thinking everything sounds the same because it measures the same in critical areas like FR response. Most of the people in ASR fall into the 2nd category in my experience with them.

Also, cables do sound different because of interference shielding and impedance differences.

I've personally learned to go by personal experience, I've been benefited and burned by both objective measurements and subjective reviews. I'd rather not have others dictate or overly influence my own personal experiences and opinions. I have my own opinions on many things in this hobby but sadly it's gotten to the point I don't even express a lot of them anymore. It's gotten to the point where there are basically numerous echo chambers and people are holing themselves up into them.

It's often best not to try and argue with people who show strong convictions regardless whether they are right, wrong, or a mixture of both as it just leads to conflict.

 

[HipHopScribe]

Well, there’s a fine line between graphs and understanding them in the real world vs thinking everything sounds the same because it measures the same in critical areas like FR response and THD. Most of the people in ASR fall into the 2nd category in my experience with them.

Also, cables do sound different because of interference shielding and impedance differences.

If you're using a cable with an impedance spec unusually high enough to affect the sound of full-size headphones you're simply using an improperly designed cable. Very low impedance IEMs might be a different story but that really shouldn't be happening with a headphone cable.

Interference shielding also shouldn't make any audible difference with the short cable runs generally used for headphones

 

[dakanao]

I've personally learned to go by personal experience, I've been benefited and burned by both objective measurements and subjective reviews. I'd rather not have others dictate or overly influence my own personal experiences and opinions. I have my own opinions on many things in this hobby but sadly it's gotten to the point I don't even express a lot of them anymore. It's gotten to the point where there are basically numerous echo chambers and people are holing themselves up into them.

It's often best not to try and argue with people who show strong convictions regardless whether they are right, wrong, or a mixture of both as it just leads to conflict.

That’s true. Measurements are one part of the science, but we simply don’t know all about our hearing and measurements to take that as absolute truth for all the (potential) differences one is able to hear vs what we currently know what to measure.

I just wanted to point out his nonsense about making the Nighthawks sound like any other headphone through EQ, discussion aside. That’s simply misleading people that read this thread.

 

[periofab]

I haven't seen any Nighthawk Carbon EQ settings yet (I'm actively looking for them), but there are several EQ settings for the regular Nighthawk which has pretty much the same sound signature, so "good enough".

Have you ever stumbled upon this while searching ? http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=288&t=21753&p=784442#p784442

 

[thebigcanman]

I just put some Brainwavez velour pads onto my nighthawks...sound changed dramatically. Significantly more treble coming through, maybe at the cost of a bit of romance that they had before.

Anybody else had this experience?

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

I just wanted to point out his nonsense

I clearly explained what my words meant, and why I did never write that a headphone could sound EXACTLY like another. What are we, in 5th grade ?
You talking about "nonsense" means that either you didn't understand me (which I doubt) or you're lying. Anyway, I think my posts are clear enough, so let's move on.

Have you ever stumbled upon this while searching ? http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=288&t=21753&p=784442#p784442

Thank you. I didn't know about that one.
I knew about InnerFidelity (Nighthawk EQ, hence with the hybrid pads) and about Dale Thorn (Nighthawk EQ with the stock hybrid pads too).

Tellement Nomade is the first Nighthawk Carbon EQ (hence full pleather pads) that I stumble upon.
Unfortunately it doesn't target the Harman Curve but something else (see here : http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=21753#p630871 ), and it's made with "amateur" hardware (MiniDSP EARS) instead of the much more expensive GRAS head & torso simulator used by Oratory.
I'll add it to my EQ presets, but I don't expect any miracles.

In a couple of weeks we should have Oratory's take on this, with various pads, but maybe not with the stock NHC pleather pads. If somebody wants to send his full pleather pads (or his NHC) to Austria, it may still be time.

 

[Twizzleshnizzle]

I just put some Brainwavez velour pads onto my nighthawks...sound changed dramatically. Significantly more treble coming through, maybe at the cost of a bit of romance that they had before.

Anybody else had this experience?

Yes I tried Brainwavz Hybrid. Losing that bit of romance is the perfect description. Made them sound generic in a way. Although, I do have a pair of the cooling gel micro suede from Brainwavz... I'll try them some time this week. I think they have much more potential.

 

[petitpierre]

what type of equalizer do you use?

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

what type of equalizer do you use?

What is your source and what is your player ? If your source is a Windows PC, you have several solutions :

• Equalizer APO (system-wide PEQ used by a lot of people - but not compatible with ASIO, WASAPI & other "direct-to-device" solutions that bypass the Windows mixer)
• Your player's EQ/PEQ (ex : foobar2000 has a regular EQ and also a Convolver plug-in - AFAIK it doesn't have a PEQ yet, that's a pity)
  EDIT - foobar2000 has a free PEQ too : Math Audio ! https://mathaudio.com/ Sorry @petitpierre , I had forgotten about it.
• A VST PEQ (there are lots of VSTs : KVR QRange (free), DDMF IIEQ Pro, FabFilter Pro Q...)
  (the VST cab be hosted either by the player via a VST Host plug-in, or via a standalone VST Host such as NanoHost)