[pauldoni]

R70x, no question.

The comparison to the 650 is probably a more similar one, as the 650's have a touch more low end than the 600's. However, I have never liked Senn cans. I have owned 599's which I found possibly the most dull and 'meh' headphones I have ever listened to, well, at least at a high-ish price point. Some people rave about them, but for me they were so bland and unimpressive. I have also had 280 Pro's, and while they isolate very well, again, I found the sound signature so sterile. I'm not necessarily talking from an 'accuracy' point of view here as some of my most beloved cans are fairly 'neutral'. But, the 'three blob' closed in stage, and overall tonality was so unappealing to me.

Many people say that the R70x has a very narrow soundstage....I could not disagree more. While they are not as wide as DT 880'S, Fidelio X2's and K712's, they are still perfectly wide and hit the perfect sweet spot for me. Narrow enough to be intimate, and not too wide as to be artificial.The R70x also has some of the best imaging I have ever heard in a headphone. Possibly the DT 1990's are the only ones to eclipse it in that regard.

Then we come on to tonality and timbre. In my opinion, no headphone I have ever tried does this better than R70x's. I am a studio engineer and the tonality of this can is just so precious and precise. Every note and instrument sounds how it should, with no colouration or distortion. Listening to music, I have never had another set of cans that give me so much soul, and emotion from my tunes. Their tone and timbre is unmatched, yes, even by the 600's and 650's.

Funnily enough, the only area of the 600/650's that I could say is superior to the R70x's, is the upper region. Not that the highs are bad on the R70x by any means, it is just slightly more resolving and crisp on the 600/650.

So, that tells you everything you need to know. The R70x is an absolute bargain of a headphone and is without a doubt, the best headphone in it's price range. Eclipsing even headphones I have heard approaching or surpassing £1000. Price point often has no bearing on quality with headphones, and I would much rather have 3 or 4 pairs of these than 1 pair of HD800's.

To me, they are the perfect headphone with the most exquisite soul and tone I have ever heard.

Wow what a nice opinion and review buddy
I found this R70X mid freq is very good for vocals and acoustic instrument. But a lil bit eq on treble is good for me

Got mine (Taiwan made) trade for Japan made. And I can confirm there are no difference between them from sound and build quality. Just different label under the head swing (Japan or Taiwan)
I just love Japan made lol

 

[dakanao]

I disagree on the HD 650 comparison. The problem I found with the R70x, was the harsh texture in some upper-mid frequencies.

Switching to the HD 650, immmediatly felt like a relief and it sounded more correct. The bass on the R70x is better though, tighter and more extended.

Honestly, if the R70x didn't have the harsh texture that sometimes creeps in, they would be excellent.

 

[matty007]

I disagree on the HD 650 comparison. The problem I found with the R70x, was the harsh texture in some upper-mid frequencies.

Switching to the HD 650, immmediatly felt like a relief and it sounded more correct. The bass on the R70x is better though, tighter and more extended.

Honestly, if the R70x didn't have the harsh texture that sometimes creeps in, they would be excellent.

Umm, very strange. I personally find the R70x extremely smooth and 'airy'. In my opinion they have the best mids of practically any headphone I have used, and I have used many. So if we are talking upper mids, we are talking around 2-3khz yes?. Personally I find vocals in this range extremely natural and not 'shouty' at all. Instruments such as pianos in this range are also full and not hollow, or too recessed. It could be possible that it was the source, your amp or possibly that particular unit.

Having been a studio engineer for over 15 years, there is but a small handful of headphones that I can say stand shoulder to shoulder with the R70x on mids. 600/650, while close, would not be in that list.

If we're talking treble, then yes, the 600/650 drivers are slightly superior for this. The highs have a tad better resolution and clarity.

At the end of the day however, audio can be largely subjective, and every ear hears slightly different, so I am not disregarding your opinion at all.

 

[dakanao]

Umm, very strange. I personally find the R70x extremely smooth and 'airy'. In my opinion they have the best mids of practically any headphone I have used, and I have used many. So if we are talking upper mids, we are talking around 2-3khz yes?. Personally I find vocals in this range extremely natural and not 'shouty' at all. Instruments such as pianos in this range are also full and not hollow, or too recessed. It could be possible that it was the source, your amp or possibly that particular unit.

Having been a studio engineer for over 15 years, there is but a small handful of headphones that I can say stand shoulder to shoulder with the R70x on mids. 600/650, while close, would not be in that list.

If we're talking treble, then yes, the 600/650 drivers are slightly superior for this. The highs have a tad better resolution and clarity.

At the end of the day however, audio can be largely subjective, and every ear hears slightly different, so I am not disregarding your opinion at all.

It was around 4 khz. I've had 2 different pairs, and both had the same harsh texture with certain sounds. It definitely isn't the whole range with that texture, rather a very narrow band that just pops up out of nowhere, when everything sounds smooth elsewhere.

It was annoying, because otherwise they were silky smooth and natural, so it was not something that EQ was gonna fix.

My source at the time (GeekOut 450) definitely wasn't all that good, but I also drove the HD 650 with it, and it didn't have that harsh texture even out of the mediocre GO 450. My onboard soundcard, despite having less technicalities than the GeekOut, sounded smoother but the harsh texture was still present.

But yeah it's highly subjective and it depends on a lot of factors (type of music, type of mastering, sensitivity of your ears etc.)

 

[matty007]

Wow what a nice opinion and review buddy
I found this R70X mid freq is very good for vocals and acoustic instrument. But a lil bit eq on treble is good for me

Got mine (Taiwan made) trade for Japan made. And I can confirm there are no difference between them from sound and build quality. Just different label under the head swing (Japan or Taiwan)
I just love Japan made lol

Absolutely. The mids are what makes these headphones particularly special for me. They are so effortlessly musical. Spatial, airy, smooth and accurate. Couple that with an outstanding bass extension for a open can, and well, you have a giant.

Sometimes, depending on source, I too add a little EQ to the upper region. Specifically around 8-10khz to add a little sparkle. Usually this is only with vinyl, or particularly muddy recordings however. There are very few cans that I can so happily use in stock form without EQ, but this is one of them.

 

[matty007]

It was around 4 khz. I've had 2 different pairs, and both had the same harsh texture with certain sounds.

It was annoying, because otherwise they were silky smooth and natural, so it was not something that EQ was gonna fix.

My source at the time (GeekOut 450) definitely wasn't all that good, but I also drove the HD 650 with it, and it didn't have that harsh texture even out of the mediocre GO 450. My onboard soundcard, despite having less technicalities than the GeekOut, sounded smoother but the harsh texture was still present.

But yeah it's highly subjective and it depends on a lot of factors (type of music, type of mastering, sensitivity of your ears etc.)

Interesting. I do detect a little 'grain' sometimes at around 3khz, but only on certain recordings. If I do a narrow subtraction Q at 3khz it does vanish, but as said, it is seldom I hear it and only on a few recordings. I am very picky with audio and on 95% of my cans, I am always tinkering with EQ to try and get the optimum sound. Then when I hear another track, I am right back to the start haha. An endless cycle of tinkering. These are one of a very select number of headphones that I happily run at stock, the others being -

Shure SHR1840
Sony MDR - Z1R
DT 880

If you do still have them, try running them through a tube amp. This certainly takes them to another level.

But as said, it may just be that your ears hear slightly different than mine. I can hear up to 17,500khz and am very analytical to audio, but I am not opposed to a little upper mid bump/grain to add a little presence. It may be you simply don't like this frequency.

I personally hate peaks at around 12khz for example as it really grates my ears, but others may not be bothered by it.

 

[dakanao]

Interesting. I do detect a little 'grain' sometimes at around 3khz, but only on certain recordings. If I do a narrow subtraction Q at 3khz it does vanish, but as said, it is seldom I hear it and only on a few recordings. I am very picky with audio and on 95% of my cans, I am always tinkering with EQ to try and get the optimum sound. Then when I hear another track, I am right back to the start haha. An endless cycle of tinkering. These are one of a very select number of headphones that I happily run at stock, the others being -

Shure SHR1840
Sony MDR - Z1R
DT 880

If you do still have them, try running them through a tube amp. This certainly takes them to another level.

But as said, it may just be that your ears hear slightly different than mine. I can hear up to 17,500khz and am very analytical to audio, but I am not opposed to a little upper mid bump/grain to add a little presence. It may be you simply don't like this frequency.

I personally hate peaks at around 12khz for example as it really grates my ears, but others may not be bothered by it.

Yeah I'm definitely sensitive to grain in the upper-mids. I can tolerate peaks above 10khz though, as long as it's a small peak and with good quality.

Sound wise the Beyerdynamic DT 250 - 250 ohm would be my favorite because it's so grainless, yet natural

 

[matty007]

DT 880 will always hold a special place in my heart, the same as these. DT 880 is supremely comfortable, wonderful airy tone (I love air in my headphones) and awesome detail retrieval.

I also used to love the DT 770's for their bass and wonderful isolation, and I wore them again tonight because the neighbours are having a party. But by god...after listening to these R70x's pretty much exclusively for last 2-3 months....wow, the 770's are so ehhhhh. The mids are so hollow and recessed..don't get me wrong, I don't mind a V shape can, but after the R70x, they feel like listening through a tin can. So unnatural. And the bass, while very punchy and extended, severely bloats the lower mids. Upper range can be very sharp too on many tracks.

I'm sure they can still be used for noisy situations, some light immersive gaming, or for Hip-Hop... but no way could I seriously listen to music through them anymore.

We have been spoiled by the natural tone and smoothness of these gems.

 

[matty007]

Yeah I'm definitely sensitive to grain in the upper-mids. I can tolerate peaks above 10khz though, as long as it's a small peak and with good quality.

Sound wise the Beyerdynamic DT 250 - 250 ohm would be my favorite because it's so grainless, yet natural

DT 250's are awesome. Very honest and non fatiguing.

A staple of mine for studio tracking.

 

[matty007]

Have ordered the DT1990. They will be here tomorrow so I will try and do a comparison for anyone interested.

I have heard the 1990's before and was very impressed with the imaging but haven't used them at great length. R70x's are pretty much my endgame but you know this headphone fetish right? There's never truly an endgame

 

[SkyZippr]

I'm looking for an upgrade/replacement for my HD598, and I've narrowed down to R70x and HD650. I've auditioned both of them but it seems my impressions differ from most of the reviews I read online. I think I need your help...

Multiple reviews claim that R70x have narrower sound stage than HD650. I wonder if I'm hearing something different, or if I've been using the word 'sound stage' wrong. For me, R70x has the widest sound stage among all the headphones I've auditioned, except for maybe HD800 and MDR-SA500.
With my ZX507, I A/B tested R70x and HD650, although I couldn't achieve the same volume precisely. One thing I immediately noticed with R70x was that the sound was coming from the outside of my head. With HD650 the vocals were always singing between my eyes or up my nose, but with R70x the vocals took a step back and sang in front my face - not that far but definitely not inside my head. It's almost like a virtual speaker effect without that weird echo-ish effect (sorry for my poor English). The instruments also spread wider apart with R70x, so much so that I even worried it being too analytical to immerse myself in the music.

I've also read a review saying R70x have less harsher treble than HD650, while pointing out HD650 have literally no harsh treble. I found that to be the opposite. For me, R70x presented notably more treble, but it was no way harsh like most of the Audio-Technica headphones like AD1000. HD650 wins all the way in the mids, but I wouldn't consider the mids of R70x to be lacking either.

So what do you think? Could it be my ZX507 being too weak to drive a 450 ohm headphone, resulting the sound to be far away and harsh in treble? Would it sound differently if I connected them to an amp or something?

As for the comfort, R70x is so lightweight that it feels lighter than air. I never thought I'd find another headphones that I'd 'forget that I was wearing them' after my HD598. However, I also found R70x to be 'too lightweight' that I kind of worried if they would sit securely upon my head (they would). For that, I think I prefer the 'Imma gently grab your head and Imma never let it go until the end of the universe' feeling of HD650.

 

[matty007]

I'm looking for an upgrade/replacement for my HD598, and I've narrowed down to R70x and HD650. I've auditioned both of them but it seems my impressions differ from most of the reviews I read online. I think I need your help...

Multiple reviews claim that R70x have narrower sound stage than HD650. I wonder if I'm hearing something different, or if I've been using the word 'sound stage' wrong. For me, R70x has the widest sound stage among all the headphones I've auditioned, except for maybe HD800 and MDR-SA500.
With my ZX507, I A/B tested R70x and HD650, although I couldn't achieve the same volume precisely. One thing I immediately noticed with R70x was that the sound was coming from the outside of my head. With HD650 the vocals were always singing between my eyes or up my nose, but with R70x the vocals took a step back and sang in front my face - not that far but definitely not inside my head. It's almost like a virtual speaker effect without that weird echo-ish effect (sorry for my poor English). The instruments also spread wider apart with R70x, so much so that I even worried it being too analytical to immerse myself in the music.

I've also read a review saying R70x have less harsher treble than HD650, while pointing out HD650 have literally no harsh treble. I found that to be the opposite. For me, R70x presented notably more treble, but it was no way harsh like most of the Audio-Technica headphones like AD1000. HD650 wins all the way in the mids, but I wouldn't consider the mids of R70x to be lacking either.

So what do you think? Is it my ZX570 pushing them ? Would it sound differently if I connected them to an amp or something?

As for the comfort, R70x is so lightweight that it feels lighter than air. I never thought I'd find another headphones that I'd 'forget that I was wearing them' after my HD598. However, I also found R70x to be 'too lightweight' that I kind of worried if they would sit securely upon my head (they would). For that, I think I prefer the 'Imma gently grab your head and Imma never let it go until the end of the universe' feeling of HD650.

I have listened to both extensively, and while I do think that the R70x is slightly wider than the 650's, there is very little difference. I think you may be confusing soundstage with imaging. The R70X has superior imaging to my ears, and as such, places the individual instruments better across the spectrum. This can result in the feeling of a wider soundstage, but actually, they are just imaging better.

One thing I will say is that the R70x is very intimate. I would not choose them for expansive space. I actually love the intimacy, but make no mistake, they are FAR narrower than cans such as the X2's, K712's. HD800's are in another world in respect to soundstage. There are MANY cans that are wider than the R70x.

Treble, I cannot agree whatsoever. The R70x has mellower treble than the HD650. By a noticeable margin. The R70x's are very smooth and extremely non fatiguing in regards to treble. HD650 certainly has more treble, and, a superior treble (the only aspect of the HD600/650 I would say is superior to the R70x)

The ZX507 is only a portable player so I cannot say that it is a very effective way of driving them, however, the R70x's are not really difficult to power, actually easier than say a DT770 80ohm, so I would not tell you that they would be under powered by much at all. I have driven the R70x's fairly satisfactorily from motherboard audio on a laptop.

In terms of comfort, I found the R70x won here, but not by much. But beware that the wing system on the R70x can be irritating to some people depending on headsize, albeit not being a complaint I have heard much. Build quality is superior on the HD650 by a smidgen.


I can only give you my opinion as a sound engineer and someone who has heard both these headphones extensively. Most people will say HD650 due to it's popularity and status, it's the 'cool' one to pick. However, I do not agree, and would firmly recommend the R70x.

The bass extends much deeper and is cleaner, the mids are perhaps the most neutral in any headphone and possess a wonderful 'airy' and 'smooth' quality. The treble, while mellow, is defined but not at all fatiguing. It is the 'Goldilocks' of headphones, everything is just right.

For me, it takes most things the HD600/650 does, and does them better. The soundstage is largely equal, the imaging is superior and they are also easier to drive. Again, the only aspect I can say that the 600/650's are superior in is the treble.It has slightly more definition

I will put it like this -

The R70x is probably my favourite headphone out of the countless ones I have used in my life. The HD600/HD650's? I returned them rather quickly. They were simply a inferior version of these.

 

[SkyZippr]

I have listened to both extensively, and while I do think that the R70x is slightly wider than the 650's, there is very little difference. I think you may be confusing soundstage with imaging. The R70X has superior imaging to my ears, and as such, places the individual instruments better across the spectrum. This can result in the feeling of a wider soundstage, but actually, they are just imaging better.

Yes thank you! I think the word 'imaging' might have been the word I've been looking for.
That also means I've hearing those headphones the same way as others do, but since I've been using the wrong word, I've been reading all the reviews the wrong way. I should've trusted my hearing rather than my not-so-up-to-par English vocabulary.

Treble, I cannot agree whatsoever. The R70x has mellower treble than the HD650. By a noticeable margin. The R70x's are very smooth and extremely non fatiguing in regards to treble. HD650 certainly has more treble, and, a superior treble (the only aspect of the HD600/650 I would say is superior to the R70x)

I think this might be where the ZX507 comes into play. It wasn't extremely hard to drive the R70x, but I did have to put it on high gain and turn the volume up to maybe 90 out of 120.
Or maybe the better imaging was helping a bit here. Or my hearing. Hoping it's not the case though.

So, could you make a comparison between these two with the HD598? I know it's hard to compare directly because HD598 belongs to a lower tier, but one of the things I'm not satisfied with my HD598 is it sounds veiled/muffled. I think I need a bit more treble than that.

 

[matty007]

I will also tell you a little secret -

In my profession, I have seen MANY audio engineers using 600/650's as they are so popular for audio mixing. Not to say they are the best, they are just the popular choice due to their status. In the same vein as the DT770's being a staple for tracking when in fact the DT250 is probably the best for tracking. I have always used Q701's for mixing as I find they translate better...but that's another story.

Anyway, over the past couple of years I have seen more and more engineers using the R70x's. They're slowly but surely becoming the gold standard in mixing. Why? Because they have a far superior bass extension, extremely neutral mids and very non fatiguing treble for long mixing sessions. I too have started using them for mixing and find my mixes translate much quicker to other systems.

There is no headphone more 'neutral' than a R70x. Don't care if it's a $250 HD 600/650 or a $1000 HD800. The R70x are kings of honesty and neutrality.

And the great thing is that they have just enough bass extension and a lush mid range as to still be interesting for casual listening.

 

[llysender]

I'm looking for an upgrade/replacement for my HD598, and I've narrowed down to R70x and HD650. I've auditioned both of them but it seems my impressions differ from most of the reviews I read online. I think I need your help...

Multiple reviews claim that R70x have narrower sound stage than HD650. I wonder if I'm hearing something different, or if I've been using the word 'sound stage' wrong. For me, R70x has the widest sound stage among all the headphones I've auditioned, except for maybe HD800 and MDR-SA500.
With my ZX507, I A/B tested R70x and HD650, although I couldn't achieve the same volume precisely. One thing I immediately noticed with R70x was that the sound was coming from the outside of my head. With HD650 the vocals were always singing between my eyes or up my nose, but with R70x the vocals took a step back and sang in front my face - not that far but definitely not inside my head. It's almost like a virtual speaker effect without that weird echo-ish effect (sorry for my poor English). The instruments also spread wider apart with R70x, so much so that I even worried it being too analytical to immerse myself in the music.

I've also read a review saying R70x have less harsher treble than HD650, while pointing out HD650 have literally no harsh treble. I found that to be the opposite. For me, R70x presented notably more treble, but it was no way harsh like most of the Audio-Technica headphones like AD1000. HD650 wins all the way in the mids, but I wouldn't consider the mids of R70x to be lacking either.

So what do you think? Could it be my ZX507 being too weak to drive a 450 ohm headphone, resulting the sound to be far away and harsh in treble? Would it sound differently if I connected them to an amp or something?

As for the comfort, R70x is so lightweight that it feels lighter than air. I never thought I'd find another headphones that I'd 'forget that I was wearing them' after my HD598. However, I also found R70x to be 'too lightweight' that I kind of worried if they would sit securely upon my head (they would). For that, I think I prefer the 'Imma gently grab your head and Imma never let it go until the end of the universe' feeling of HD650.

While I can't compare to the hd650 I can compare to the hd600 which I have had for 6 months before selling off. I'm using the K5 pro as my amp/dac if that matters.

R70x soundstage is certernly wider than hd600 but not by much. I found that tube amps increase the soundstage but the killing of the subbass is a big nono for me.

The place where R70x shines the most is in the bass area. Its just so natural and digs down low while still maintaing detail. The hd600 on the other hand gets pretty mushy down there and doesn't do well on 300bpm music with its tendency to merge beats together. R70x bass is simply a no contest winner here. bass is slightly more elevated than hd600 as well and sounds like a vurtual subwoofer with its strong rumble.

For Mids the R70x also wins due to its eveness throughout both male and female vocals. The HD600 on the other hand while being more mid forward has some upper mid shoutiness to it which I dislike. Both has about the same detail retrieval for mids.

For trebble its a no contest HD600, the r70x has laid back and not very high resolution treble which is good for long listening sessions and not harsh but you will not get the detail some people like. The HD600 has significantly harsher trebble but much more detailed and has better imaging as well in that area.

All in all assuming the HD650 is a HD600 with the trebble tuned down which was HD600 one redeming factor I would take the R70X no contest.
Also try to get the R70X new or with little use or with form with perople with headsizes with similar to yours as the clamp is very dependant on the spring headband and having it stratched too wide will affect the bass significantly.