[pauldoni]

Either way you will eventually want a amp to get the most out of either headphone. Personally I would check their online store and see if there is any amp that both stores have and try them both with the Sony and with the amp to get a better understanding of how both headphones sound amped. Even something like the fiio A5 is good enough for testing

I prefer xduoo XD-05 plus, it's packed with DAC, switchable opamp, and huge power output

Planning to change my earpad, any better option than brainwavz hm5 velour? In the same price range. Thx

 

[SkyZippr]

I went for another audition for R70x and Sundara, and came to my own conclusion. It's getting severely off-topic of the thread, but I'm sharing my thoughts just in case anyone's wondering.

As I mentioned before, the two headphones are placed quite apart from each other in the store I go to, so it's not exactly an A/B test.
I tested them with my ZX507 at high gain mode this time, which is supposed to give 50 mW + 50 mW at 16 ohms for unbalanced output.
My music collection does not contain any jazz or classical music, so there might be more things to discover if you have better recording. All music files are encoded in 256 kbps VBR AAC. (I dare not call myself an audiophile.)
Also I'm not a professional and English is not my first language, so the words I'll be using might be inaccurate.


Sundara, to my surprise, is easier to drive than R70x. I was at 60 to 65 out of 120 with Sundara, and I had to turn up the volume 5 steps or so for R70x to achieve the same loudness. My USB DAC/amp is a bit more powerful than ZX507, so there shouldn't be any problem driving either of them at home.

In compare with R70x, Sundara gives me more bass and more treble, but I'd never in my life call Sundara v-shaped. I think you could say Sundara is more fun than R70x. I didn't notice significant difference in mids, but overall R70x sounded more suitable for long term listening. Right after switching from Sundara, R70x did feel a bit dull for a moment, but it's merely a relative thing. R70x feels more flat and colorless, and I get the sense that I might be able to extract more detail with R70x if I wanted to.
Sundara gives more room to the left and right, while R70x gives more room to the front and back. I noticed the difference in width from Drive My Car by The Beatles, where eveything is panned hard left and hard right. The difference in the depth was more noticeable for me than the width, but again this is relative and Sundara does not put the vocal inside my head. I've hardly ever felt any height in the sound with the headphones, so I can't comment on that.
It was easier for me to pinpoint the position of a instrument with R70x. With Sundara it felt a bit fuzzier but this is me trying all I can to squeeze out the difference. If R70x were a 50MP camera then Sundara would be 42 MP. I don't think you'll be able to tell if you are just enjoying music.

In terms of comfort, both has its own advantage.
R70x is literally light as feather, and I can hardly imagine anyone having any kind of issue for long term listening. But since it's so lightweight, I do get the illusion that it's not properly clamping my head and might fall off it I get too excited by the music - but the truth is it's firmer than it feels, and it stayed safely on my head despite a little head banging. The unique wing support head band works perfectly for me - just put it on and I'm good to go.
Sundara is noticeably heavier but is still very lightweight for a planar. The leather headband manages to distribute the weight evenly on the top of my head, although it took me a while to adjust it. Also, adjusting the head band leaves visible marks on it. The units don't swivel - not even a tiny bit - but the earpads make up for it. The earpads are way more comfy than R70x's.
The cables, in my opinion, are not perfect for either headphone. R70x uses proprietary connectors, which means replacements are hard to find. Sundara's stock cable feels elastic, and I really don't like its L shaped plug.

The build quality are both superb, although at first glance R70x looks kind of cheap. R70x also gives an illusion that it's not so solid due to its weight. Actually, the one that I auditioned has been up for display for so long, that the mesh grill were visibly dented on both sides. I guess some naughty customers had determined to do durability test on them. I don't think that should be the case for home use, though.
Sundara looks and feels way more solid, and I really dig the design. However, I've seen way too many people reporting quality control issue of Hifiman. I've never seen any complaints for Audio-Technica by the way. Here in Japan, R70x is sold for $350 and Sandara is $500, so the quality issue is really holding me back.


In conclusion, Sundara definitely gives me more 'wow' than R70x, but for long listening session I'd probably choose R70x. And for the record, in case I wanted to listen to music all day while doing painting and stuff, I might stick with my HD598 because it's dull and veiled and may never harm my ears.
So, no I haven't decided which headphone to buy. I guess this is the fun part of choosing one.

 

[SkyZippr]

OK I just realized that there may be a difference between 'having more depth or width' and 'putting the sound farther away from you'. I'm more referring to the latter.
Sundara plays the sound from hard left and hard right a notch farther away than R70x does, whereas R70x plays the sound from front (general speaking, vocals) 2-3 notches farther away than Sundara does. Or at least that's what I think I heard.

I should've also mentioned that the shop I went to is e-earphone in Tokyo, where the non-high-end headphones are always on display and free to try. There's no dedicated listening booth, and the sound leakage from other people trying headphones can be prominent. Impressions are likely to differ if you have super-quiet environment at home.
Oh and the pads were not in the best conditions, but not severely worn off either.

 

[zazex]

Beyerdynamic DT1990 & Audio Technica ATH-R70x
Comparisons/Thoughts

I took delivery of the DT 1990 Pro today. I have heard them in the past and was very impressed with the imaging.
The R70x has been my daily driver for a while now and is probably my favourite headphone ever. However, as we all know, this hobby is never done and we are always looking for the next 'improvement'. Will the DT1990 offer that? Well, we shall see.

This isn't supposed to be a review as such, but simply a comparison between these two headphones. It will be useful for current R70x owners in deciding whether they would like to purchase the DT1990. Or for someone who is considering one of the two options.

So...let's get started.

Oh, and just for reference, I am using the analytical pads on the DT1990

Build

Despite all of things the R70x excels at, it will never be renowned for build quality. The build is rather 'basic' and somewhat flimsy. However, despite this, I would not say that they are prone to breaking or cracking. The grills look very classy and the wing system is a good one for stability.

The DT1990's however, can be described as nothing short of regal build quality. They're extremely sturdy and industrial, and there is little to no plastic used. The cups are all metal and have laser engraving. The headband is real leather and of high quality.

The conclusion here is an easy one. The DT1990 is far superior in build quality and is quite possibly the most well built headphone in existence.

Comfort

There are a number of people that have issues with the Audio Technica wing system. I am not one of them. I find they fit my head very well and while the clamp pressure of this headphone is very low, it never feels too loose. The pads, while fairly thin, are of good quality and mould to the ears well. There is something to be said for lightweight headphones for long mixing/listening sessions and these are no slouch in the comfort department.

The DT1990's take the comfort of the 880/990 and further, yes further, improve on it. I find the clamping pressure to be perfect, not too light, not too heavy. They hit that magic sweet spot of being heavy enough and clamping enough for a feeling of sturdiness and comfort, but not too much as to be fatiguing/cumbersome. The pads being velour are very very soft and sit on the ears like pillows. I can wear them for hours with nay a hint of a hot spot, and no, I don't find them too heavy.

I think personally, you would be very hard pressed to find a more comfortable headphone than the DT1990. Think a Fidelio X2 or 880, but even better. While the R70x is still very comfortable, the DT1990 is a fairly easy winner here again .

Sound

Firstly, I would say that after listening to both of these headphones extensively, I don't consider them largely comparable in many areas. While they are both classed as 'reference' headphones, they both handle sound rather differently.

The R70x I would consider as flat as a pancake, at least to my ears. If you're looking for the 'flattest' headphone of the two, then the R70x should undoubtedly be your choice. There is no other headphone I have heard that sounds so 'flat' to my ears. The bass is tuned perfectly, albeit lacking finer detail. The mids are the very definition of neutral and musical. The highs are extremely mellow and non-fatiguing. Couple this with a very lightweight build and you have the ideal mixing tool for ensuring your mixes are as accurate as possible. Honestly, this should be the reference go to, not the HD600

The DT1990's are also somewhat honest, however they have more character. The bass certainly extends deeper and is more impactful, cleaner.The mids are a little more recessed but still display musicality, especially with instruments. The highs? Yes, they're elevated, especially around 8khz. This can make them more fatiguing and sharp, however, the highs here are extremely detailed.

Below will be a more detailed analysis of the sound -

Bass

The R70x in my opinion has excellent bass. It extends deeper than many of it's rivals and thus displays a wonderful warmth that is often missing from it's peers. Sometimes what are classed as 'accurate' headphones are severely lacking in the bass department. There is just enough bass here to still be honest and enjoyable, but not too much as to bloat the mids, or destroy accuracy. Not the most detailed of bass, but very accurate and musical.

The DT1990? Wow. The bass here is just phenomenal. It extends deeper still compared to the R70x and is more defined and resolving by quiet a margin. Sub bass is almost always missing in open back cans...but not on these. They pack a serious punch, and for an open back, it's quite outstanding. Hip-Hop listeners will rejoice. Thankfully, while the bass is plentiful and extends, it does not bloat the mids. Nor is it excessive. Just extremely well defined, punchy and accurate.

Both cans have better than average bass. However, the win has to be given to DT1990 here on sheer definition, extension and impact.

Mids

This is probably the most difficult portion of this analysis for me to gauge. People who have followed my posts in this thread will be aware of the fact that I believe the R70x to possibly have the most lush, musical and smooth mids of any headphone. I still stick to this belief. I mean, the tone and character is just spot on. Vocals are smooth and angelic, and instruments have such a wonderful tamber and tone.

Listening to the DT1990 does not feel like a come down, simply a somewhat different approach. The mids are a little more recessed meaning the vocals are ever so slightly less present and warm. This is not a bad thing in itself, however, in some recordings, a certain soul or character can be more elusive. However, I feel that the 1990's render the tamber and tone of instruments even better than the the R70x. What is slightly lost in vocal presence is made up for in incredible tone of instrumentation. I never thought I would concede that a headphone has better tamber and tone than the R70x, but I think we have found it. Honestly, strings and pianos on these are simply divine.

I am tempted to give this one a tie. From a technical standpoint, the DT1990's are superior, but where one delivers vocals the best, the other delivers instrumentation the best. So a tie.

Highs

This is going to be controversial, but for me, this was an easy win to one headphone.

The R70x does not have poor treble in the slightest and is, I would argue, absolutely perfect for long listening and audio mixing. It is mellow and subdued, and is thus extremely non-fatiguing. I believe it is spot on for audio mixing.

The DT1990 while having peaky treble, are extremely detailed in this regard. Highs are rendered with laser like precision and definition. People often get confused with exaggerated frequency response, and actual resolution. Headphones can have peaky treble and are said to be 'very detailed'. In many, this is not the case, they are simply exaggerated, and faked detail. This does not apply to the DT1990. Yes, the treble is peaked, but, it is also staggeringly detailed. Hi-Hats, cymbals etc are rendered with such amazing crispness and resolution. Honestly, these put the HD800's to shame in regards to treble. The tesla drivers have incredible resolution. A quick reduction at 8khz of 4db with a Q2 will have these sounding less sharp, but every bit as detailed.

So, it's an easy win for the DT1990 here.

Soundstage

I find soundstage to be a hugely subjective aspect of headphones. Some will tell you a certain headphone has a wide stage, another, will tell you that they are narrow. It's very inexact.

The R70x to me is rather intimate, but not what I would deem narrow. If we use a HD600 as a reference, they are perhaps 10% more wide.

DT1990's are noticeably more wide. Instruments and detail are wider by a fair margin. I would approximate that they are about 50% wider than a HD600.

On technical terms, the DT1990 wins here, but I have always thought of soundstage as largely preference based. Some prefer intimacy, some prefer width and space.

Imaging

I have always said that the R70x has great imaging, and I stick by that. Instruments are defined, and are rendered very accurately. This is why, despite their fairly narrow stage, they feel fairly wide.

DT1990's however, have insane imaging. It is pinpoint and extremely defined. You will hear to exact angles where different instruments are. A guitar may be right in front of you, and you will be able to deduce that a tambourine is 5 degrees to the left. It is pinpoint imaging and honestly scary. This is the sole reason I purchased these after being so impressed a while ago when I heard them. The imaging here is honestly unmatched.

Power

Both of these headphones are fairly easy to drive due to high sensitivity, and I am using a JDS Atom as reference. Not the most amazing amp but very capable and a good popular reference for many people

The R70x can be powered sufficiently off motherboard audio or even a phone. However, an amp is always recommended and these really shine with a tube amplifier. The JDS Atom was set at high gain and 12 o clock to achieve my ideal volume of 85db

The DT1990's are easier to power still. Not by much, but a little. The dial on the JDS Atom was set to 11 o clock to achieve the same volume as the R70x at 12 o clock.

Conclusions

So, by reading this analysis, many would deduce that I like the DT1990's more than the R70x? Perhaps. But no headphone excels at everything and renders another useless.

Make no mistake that the DT1990's are the superior headphone in most respects, but this does not account for everything.

The R70x is perfect in my opinion for any situation where honesty and accuracy is needed. Audio mixing, very critical listening and production work. A case can also be made that they are better for long listening due to their light weight, and very non fatiguing treble (although this is sort of a non issue in the DT1990 once the EQ has been applied at 8khz)

On the other hand, the DT1990's do have superior build quality, comfort, bass, treble, sound stage and imaging. For general listening and highest quality possible, they maybe superior. DT1990 gets very little wrong, and where it excels, it is a master. The imaging and treble resolution is particularly impressive. Honestly, jazz on these is nothing short of a jawdropping experience. Also, Like A Prayer by Madonna on the DT1990 maybe one of the most awe inspiring audio moments in my life.

Do I think any less of the R70x? Absolutely not. It has wonderful tone, tamber and accuracy. It is as flat as a pancake and the ideal reference headphone and should, in my opinion, be the standard for audio production.

However, if you're looking for better bass, spectacular treble resolution, insane imaging and great sound stage...you could do a lot worse than the DT1990

Pictures












​

The Fostex T20, 40, 50, and 60RP use planar magnetic technology
and are all very reasonably priced - at least in the USA.

https://fostexinternational.com/docs/products/RP-Series.shtml


Also, not quite sure about the reason for comparing the 1990's with
the R70x's, with the former at $599 (or so) and the latter at around
$349.

I had the 1990's for several months (still have and enjoy the Amiron's),
and I've also had tjhe R70x's for about two years. I like them a lot, but
don't "love" them. They're comfortable and an easy listen, sonically,
without too many edges or other wierdnesses.

It seemed obvious to me from the start that the 1990's would come
out on top in this contest. Both are fine headphones from very
reputable manufacturers, but at quite different price points.

 

[kman1211]

Beyerdynamic DT1990 & Audio Technica ATH-R70x
Comparisons/Thoughts

I took delivery of the DT 1990 Pro today. I have heard them in the past and was very impressed with the imaging.
The R70x has been my daily driver for a while now and is probably my favourite headphone ever. However, as we all know, this hobby is never done and we are always looking for the next 'improvement'. Will the DT1990 offer that? Well, we shall see.

This isn't supposed to be a review as such, but simply a comparison between these two headphones. It will be useful for current R70x owners in deciding whether they would like to purchase the DT1990. Or for someone who is considering one of the two options.

So...let's get started.

Oh, and just for reference, I am using the analytical pads on the DT1990

Build

Despite all of things the R70x excels at, it will never be renowned for build quality. The build is rather 'basic' and somewhat flimsy. However, despite this, I would not say that they are prone to breaking or cracking. The grills look very classy and the wing system is a good one for stability.

The DT1990's however, can be described as nothing short of regal build quality. They're extremely sturdy and industrial, and there is little to no plastic used. The cups are all metal and have laser engraving. The headband is real leather and of high quality.

The conclusion here is an easy one. The DT1990 is far superior in build quality and is quite possibly the most well built headphone in existence.

Comfort

There are a number of people that have issues with the Audio Technica wing system. I am not one of them. I find they fit my head very well and while the clamp pressure of this headphone is very low, it never feels too loose. The pads, while fairly thin, are of good quality and mould to the ears well. There is something to be said for lightweight headphones for long mixing/listening sessions and these are no slouch in the comfort department.

The DT1990's take the comfort of the 880/990 and further, yes further, improve on it. I find the clamping pressure to be perfect, not too light, not too heavy. They hit that magic sweet spot of being heavy enough and clamping enough for a feeling of sturdiness and comfort, but not too much as to be fatiguing/cumbersome. The pads being velour are very very soft and sit on the ears like pillows. I can wear them for hours with nay a hint of a hot spot, and no, I don't find them too heavy.

I think personally, you would be very hard pressed to find a more comfortable headphone than the DT1990. Think a Fidelio X2 or 880, but even better. While the R70x is still very comfortable, the DT1990 is a fairly easy winner here again .

Sound

Firstly, I would say that after listening to both of these headphones extensively, I don't consider them largely comparable in many areas. While they are both classed as 'reference' headphones, they both handle sound rather differently.

The R70x I would consider as flat as a pancake, at least to my ears. If you're looking for the 'flattest' headphone of the two, then the R70x should undoubtedly be your choice. There is no other headphone I have heard that sounds so 'flat' to my ears. The bass is tuned perfectly, albeit lacking finer detail. The mids are the very definition of neutral and musical. The highs are extremely mellow and non-fatiguing. Couple this with a very lightweight build and you have the ideal mixing tool for ensuring your mixes are as accurate as possible. Honestly, this should be the reference go to, not the HD600

The DT1990's are also somewhat honest, however they have more character. The bass certainly extends deeper and is more impactful, cleaner.The mids are a little more recessed but still display musicality, especially with instruments. The highs? Yes, they're elevated, especially around 8khz. This can make them more fatiguing and sharp, however, the highs here are extremely detailed.

Below will be a more detailed analysis of the sound -

Bass

The R70x in my opinion has excellent bass. It extends deeper than many of it's rivals and thus displays a wonderful warmth that is often missing from it's peers. Sometimes what are classed as 'accurate' headphones are severely lacking in the bass department. There is just enough bass here to still be honest and enjoyable, but not too much as to bloat the mids, or destroy accuracy. Not the most detailed of bass, but very accurate and musical.

The DT1990? Wow. The bass here is just phenomenal. It extends deeper still compared to the R70x and is more defined and resolving by quiet a margin. Sub bass is almost always missing in open back cans...but not on these. They pack a serious punch, and for an open back, it's quite outstanding. Hip-Hop listeners will rejoice. Thankfully, while the bass is plentiful and extends, it does not bloat the mids. Nor is it excessive. Just extremely well defined, punchy and accurate.

Both cans have better than average bass. However, the win has to be given to DT1990 here on sheer definition, extension and impact.

Mids

This is probably the most difficult portion of this analysis for me to gauge. People who have followed my posts in this thread will be aware of the fact that I believe the R70x to possibly have the most lush, musical and smooth mids of any headphone. I still stick to this belief. I mean, the tone and character is just spot on. Vocals are smooth and angelic, and instruments have such a wonderful tamber and tone.

Listening to the DT1990 does not feel like a come down, simply a somewhat different approach. The mids are a little more recessed meaning the vocals are ever so slightly less present and warm. This is not a bad thing in itself, however, in some recordings, a certain soul or character can be more elusive. However, I feel that the 1990's render the tamber and tone of instruments even better than the the R70x. What is slightly lost in vocal presence is made up for in incredible tone of instrumentation. I never thought I would concede that a headphone has better tamber and tone than the R70x, but I think we have found it. Honestly, strings and pianos on these are simply divine.

I am tempted to give this one a tie. From a technical standpoint, the DT1990's are superior, but where one delivers vocals the best, the other delivers instrumentation the best. So a tie.

Highs

This is going to be controversial, but for me, this was an easy win to one headphone.

The R70x does not have poor treble in the slightest and is, I would argue, absolutely perfect for long listening and audio mixing. It is mellow and subdued, and is thus extremely non-fatiguing. I believe it is spot on for audio mixing.

The DT1990 while having peaky treble, are extremely detailed in this regard. Highs are rendered with laser like precision and definition. People often get confused with exaggerated frequency response, and actual resolution. Headphones can have peaky treble and are said to be 'very detailed'. In many, this is not the case, they are simply exaggerated, and faked detail. This does not apply to the DT1990. Yes, the treble is peaked, but, it is also staggeringly detailed. Hi-Hats, cymbals etc are rendered with such amazing crispness and resolution. Honestly, these put the HD800's to shame in regards to treble. The tesla drivers have incredible resolution. A quick reduction at 8khz of 4db with a Q2 will have these sounding less sharp, but every bit as detailed.

So, it's an easy win for the DT1990 here.

Soundstage

I find soundstage to be a hugely subjective aspect of headphones. Some will tell you a certain headphone has a wide stage, another, will tell you that they are narrow. It's very inexact.

The R70x to me is rather intimate, but not what I would deem narrow. If we use a HD600 as a reference, they are perhaps 10% more wide.

DT1990's are noticeably more wide. Instruments and detail are wider by a fair margin. I would approximate that they are about 50% wider than a HD600.

On technical terms, the DT1990 wins here, but I have always thought of soundstage as largely preference based. Some prefer intimacy, some prefer width and space.

Imaging

I have always said that the R70x has great imaging, and I stick by that. Instruments are defined, and are rendered very accurately. This is why, despite their fairly narrow stage, they feel fairly wide.

DT1990's however, have insane imaging. It is pinpoint and extremely defined. You will hear to exact angles where different instruments are. A guitar may be right in front of you, and you will be able to deduce that a tambourine is 5 degrees to the left. It is pinpoint imaging and honestly scary. This is the sole reason I purchased these after being so impressed a while ago when I heard them. The imaging here is honestly unmatched.

Power

Both of these headphones are fairly easy to drive due to high sensitivity, and I am using a JDS Atom as reference. Not the most amazing amp but very capable and a good popular reference for many people

The R70x can be powered sufficiently off motherboard audio or even a phone. However, an amp is always recommended and these really shine with a tube amplifier. The JDS Atom was set at high gain and 12 o clock to achieve my ideal volume of 85db

The DT1990's are easier to power still. Not by much, but a little. The dial on the JDS Atom was set to 11 o clock to achieve the same volume as the R70x at 12 o clock.

Conclusions

So, by reading this analysis, many would deduce that I like the DT1990's more than the R70x? Perhaps. But no headphone excels at everything and renders another useless.

Make no mistake that the DT1990's are the superior headphone in most respects, but this does not account for everything.

The R70x is perfect in my opinion for any situation where honesty and accuracy is needed. Audio mixing, very critical listening and production work. A case can also be made that they are better for long listening due to their light weight, and very non fatiguing treble (although this is sort of a non issue in the DT1990 once the EQ has been applied at 8khz)

On the other hand, the DT1990's do have superior build quality, comfort, bass, treble, sound stage and imaging. For general listening and highest quality possible, they maybe superior. DT1990 gets very little wrong, and where it excels, it is a master. The imaging and treble resolution is particularly impressive. Honestly, jazz on these is nothing short of a jawdropping experience. Also, Like A Prayer by Madonna on the DT1990 maybe one of the most awe inspiring audio moments in my life.

Do I think any less of the R70x? Absolutely not. It has wonderful tone, tamber and accuracy. It is as flat as a pancake and the ideal reference headphone and should, in my opinion, be the standard for audio production.

However, if you're looking for better bass, spectacular treble resolution, insane imaging and great sound stage...you could do a lot worse than the DT1990

Pictures












​

Excellent review. I’ve always been curious about the R70X personally but never had the chance to listen to one, hopefully will sometime in the future. I am well acquainted with the DT 1990 and Tesla Beyers in general. Personally settled on the T1.2 as my favorite Tesla beyer which is a bit more refined, more laid-back, and resolving than the DT 1990. Few headphones sound as tonally correct as a Tesla Beyer to my ears despite their somewhat controversial treble tuning and not quite as linear tuning as some others.

 

[dakanao]

Excellent review. I’ve always been curious about the R70X personally but never had the chance to listen to one, hopefully will sometime in the future. I am well acquainted with the DT 1990 and Tesla Beyers in general. Personally settled on the T1.2 as my favorite Tesla beyer which is a bit more refined, more laid-back, and resolving than the DT 1990. Few headphones sound as tonally correct as a Tesla Beyer to my ears despite their somewhat controversial treble tuning and not quite as linear tuning as some others.

Since you seem to notice grain in headphones the same way as I do, I don't think you'll enjoy the R70x because of that, but ofcourse you can always try.

 

[pauldoni]

I went for another audition for R70x and Sundara, and came to my own conclusion. It's getting severely off-topic of the thread, but I'm sharing my thoughts just in case anyone's wondering.

As I mentioned before, the two headphones are placed quite apart from each other in the store I go to, so it's not exactly an A/B test.
I tested them with my ZX507 at high gain mode this time, which is supposed to give 50 mW + 50 mW at 16 ohms for unbalanced output.
My music collection does not contain any jazz or classical music, so there might be more things to discover if you have better recording. All music files are encoded in 256 kbps VBR AAC. (I dare not call myself an audiophile.)
Also I'm not a professional and English is not my first language, so the words I'll be using might be inaccurate.


Sundara, to my surprise, is easier to drive than R70x. I was at 60 to 65 out of 120 with Sundara, and I had to turn up the volume 5 steps or so for R70x to achieve the same loudness. My USB DAC/amp is a bit more powerful than ZX507, so there shouldn't be any problem driving either of them at home.

In compare with R70x, Sundara gives me more bass and more treble, but I'd never in my life call Sundara v-shaped. I think you could say Sundara is more fun than R70x. I didn't notice significant difference in mids, but overall R70x sounded more suitable for long term listening. Right after switching from Sundara, R70x did feel a bit dull for a moment, but it's merely a relative thing. R70x feels more flat and colorless, and I get the sense that I might be able to extract more detail with R70x if I wanted to.
Sundara gives more room to the left and right, while R70x gives more room to the front and back. I noticed the difference in width from Drive My Car by The Beatles, where eveything is panned hard left and hard right. The difference in the depth was more noticeable for me than the width, but again this is relative and Sundara does not put the vocal inside my head. I've hardly ever felt any height in the sound with the headphones, so I can't comment on that.
It was easier for me to pinpoint the position of a instrument with R70x. With Sundara it felt a bit fuzzier but this is me trying all I can to squeeze out the difference. If R70x were a 50MP camera then Sundara would be 42 MP. I don't think you'll be able to tell if you are just enjoying music.

In terms of comfort, both has its own advantage.
R70x is literally light as feather, and I can hardly imagine anyone having any kind of issue for long term listening. But since it's so lightweight, I do get the illusion that it's not properly clamping my head and might fall off it I get too excited by the music - but the truth is it's firmer than it feels, and it stayed safely on my head despite a little head banging. The unique wing support head band works perfectly for me - just put it on and I'm good to go.
Sundara is noticeably heavier but is still very lightweight for a planar. The leather headband manages to distribute the weight evenly on the top of my head, although it took me a while to adjust it. Also, adjusting the head band leaves visible marks on it. The units don't swivel - not even a tiny bit - but the earpads make up for it. The earpads are way more comfy than R70x's.
The cables, in my opinion, are not perfect for either headphone. R70x uses proprietary connectors, which means replacements are hard to find. Sundara's stock cable feels elastic, and I really don't like its L shaped plug.

The build quality are both superb, although at first glance R70x looks kind of cheap. R70x also gives an illusion that it's not so solid due to its weight. Actually, the one that I auditioned has been up for display for so long, that the mesh grill were visibly dented on both sides. I guess some naughty customers had determined to do durability test on them. I don't think that should be the case for home use, though.
Sundara looks and feels way more solid, and I really dig the design. However, I've seen way too many people reporting quality control issue of Hifiman. I've never seen any complaints for Audio-Technica by the way. Here in Japan, R70x is sold for $350 and Sandara is $500, so the quality issue is really holding me back.


In conclusion, Sundara definitely gives me more 'wow' than R70x, but for long listening session I'd probably choose R70x. And for the record, in case I wanted to listen to music all day while doing painting and stuff, I might stick with my HD598 because it's dull and veiled and may never harm my ears.
So, no I haven't decided which headphone to buy. I guess this is the fun part of choosing one.

just buy both if you're confused haha
I guess, the scondhand price of the 70x was far under the new one, at least in my country.
btw, i always wanting lil bit more treble on r70x before.
yesterday, i realized that im using the r70x in a wong way, the pads should used as "on ear" to my ear rather than "over ear".
Since my ear is small (typical asians lol), i can use it both ways .
Now, i think the treble is on propper quantity, and i feel better about this headphone now

 

[matty007]

The Fostex T20, 40, 50, and 60RP use planar magnetic technology
and are all very reasonably priced - at least in the USA.

https://fostexinternational.com/docs/products/RP-Series.shtml


Also, not quite sure about the reason for comparing the 1990's with
the R70x's, with the former at $599 (or so) and the latter at around
$349.

I had the 1990's for several months (still have and enjoy the Amiron's),
and I've also had tjhe R70x's for about two years. I like them a lot, but
don't "love" them. They're comfortable and an easy listen, sonically,
without too many edges or other wierdnesses.

It seemed obvious to me from the start that the 1990's would come
out on top in this contest. Both are fine headphones from very
reputable manufacturers, but at quite different price points.

The Fostex are a good recommendation, however, they are closed back.

Personally, outside of a noisy environment or studio, I can not tolerate closed back headphones anymore. I find them too hollow sounding, lack soundtstage, and airiness. Open backs are far superior for me in regards to tone and general audio immersion. Put your hands over the driver vents of a open back and you will quickly see how hollow and artificial closed backs sound.

 

[dakanao]

The Fostex are a good recommendation, however, they are closed back.

Personally, outside of a noisy environment or studio, I can not tolerate closed back headphones anymore. I find them too hollow sounding, lack soundtstage, and airiness. Open backs are far superior for me in regards to tone and general audio immersion. Put your hands over the driver vents of a open back and you will quickly see how hollow and artificial closed backs sound.

There are some open sounding closed backs; the Beyerdynamic DT 250 - 250 and 150 with DT-100 velours come to mind.

 

[descloud]

I did exactly that, I much prefer the r70x to the hd600.

May I ask which aspects of R70x do you prefer it over the HD600? Just curious as I'm sort of eyeing the R70x to upgrade from my HD650s (HD600 and HD650 have very similar sound signature from articles I've read at least so difference between them I would suppose is negligible at this time)

 

[zazex]

The Fostex are a good recommendation, however, they are closed back.

Personally, outside of a noisy environment or studio, I can not tolerate closed back headphones anymore. I find them too hollow sounding, lack soundtstage, and airiness. Open backs are far superior for me in regards to tone and general audio immersion. Put your hands over the driver vents of a open back and you will quickly see how hollow and artificial closed backs sound.

Wait, hang on a second please...

The Fostex T20 Mk III are open back,
The T40 is closed back.
and the T50 is semi-open.

The T60RP, which has mahogany ear cups,
is semi-open.

Just wanted to clarify.

 

[descloud]

Ifi IDSD with R70x is a fantastic combo, but I recommend the Black Label over the silver one.

May I ask why you'd recommend the Black Label over the silver one? Were you able to compare the two previously?

 

[alexlevn0791]

May I ask why you'd recommend the Black Label over the silver one? Were you able to compare the two previously?

Hi! Yes, I upgraded from the previous ifi to BL. The BL is a more refined version in many ways (not saying that the previous version is bad sounding as it served me for a while and also sounded fantastic). If you are looking for a bit better imaging and more slam and excitement in your music, I recommend the BL. The most obvious improvement , I still remembered, when I first tried out the BL was in the bass

 

[descloud]

Hi! Yes, I upgraded from the previous ifi to BL. The BL is a more refined version in many ways (not saying that the previous version is bad sounding as it served me for a while and also sounded fantastic). If you are looking for a bit better imaging and more slam and excitement in your music, I recommend the BL. The most obvious improvement , I still remembered, when I first tried out the BL was in the bass

Thanks for your input!

If the Black Label does go on a good sale, I'll definitely snag one up

Been able to get a decent deal on a used silver micro recently, but couldn't find one for the BL label, so I'll wait on that one in the future.

 

[llysender]

I just got to listen to the ath-awkt and it's the perfect upgrade to the r70x with similar timbre and much improved detail and imaging. Honestly this is the only kilodoller headphone I have listened to that I have no problem paying MSRP.

Anyways pics and review with reference to the r70x coming this Wednesday or Thursday depending on when I get my new toy.