[striner]

Ok, so in my head I've dismissed a new HD 439 because I am really curious about the M-series, but now I am doubting between the M40x and M50x. I listen to both EDM and metal, and I am worried if I take the M50x, the vocals, some guitarwork or something else in metal will get pushed to the background in favor of bass. I listened to both the M40x and M50x on sonicsense, and on metal I heard the vocals sounding "far away", am I correct?
However I am also concerned when buying the M40x, I will basically get the same bass level als currently on my HD 439, which is also something I do not want. Or maybe they would sound a bit better because the isolation is better?
Any advice?

 

[imran27]

  Ok, so in my head I've dismissed a new HD 439 because I am really curious about the M-series, but now I am doubting between the M40x and M50x. I listen to both EDM and metal, and I am worried if I take the M50x, the vocals, some guitarwork or something else in metal will get pushed to the background in favor of bass. I listened to both the M40x and M50x on sonicsense, and on metal I heard the vocals sounding "far away", am I correct?
However I am also concerned when buying the M40x, I will basically get the same bass level als currently on my HD 439, which is also something I do not want. Or maybe they would sound a bit better because the isolation is better?
Any advice?

M50X is a bit V-shaped. So guitars won't take a back seat. I can't say more on this since I have not head the M50X. I do own the M40X and I can say that they are great for all genres of music. Vocals sometimes seem a little too recessed especially more so with the HM5 memory foam pleather pads.
 
One tip for HM5 earpad users, if you press the earcups against your ears and hold them for a while and release them it will give a much tighter seal and lead to a better sub bass response. Every time I wear mines I press them against my ears and release them.

 

[striner]

I gave them both another listen, this time via the soundcloud playlist (https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro-audio/sets/mobile-device-headphone) and I think the M40x are a bit more "in your face", it sounds like everything is recorded at closer distance, I think because of the more pronounced mids. I do hear more bass in the M50x, but if I am to believe these recordings, at the cost of other frequencies, for example at the end of the "rock" section (4:55 onward) the keys sound a lot more distant on the M50x.

 

[MrPhilicorda]

  M50X is a bit V-shaped. So guitars won't take a back seat. I can't say more on this since I have not head the M50X. I do own the M40X and I can say that they are great for all genres of music. Vocals sometimes seem a little too recessed especially more so with the HM5 memory foam pleather pads.
 
One tip for HM5 earpad users, if you press the earcups against your ears and hold them for a while and release them it will give a much tighter seal and lead to a better sub bass response. Every time I wear mines I press them against my ears and release them.

V-shaped means recessed mids, and AFAIK most of the guitar's frequencies are in the mid-range unless we're talking about some real oddball guitar sound. A heavily distorted (nu) metal guitar can have more bass & treble content but the body of the sound still always lies in the mid-range. So IMO: V-shaped is not good if you want to focus on guitars.
 
Having said that, according to the graph I attached in my previous post the M50x doesn't look V-shaped, it rather looks voiced towards more bass & less treble. The M40x is more balanced in that sense, allthough it would probably be a little light on bass if you want 'oomph'.

 

[MusicBox]

General question here: If v-shaped headphones have recessed mid thus recessed guitars and vocals, then why most people pick v-shaped headphones and call them more fun? I mean, most of the music out there has guitars or vocals, doesn't it?

 

[MrPhilicorda]

  General question here: If v-shaped headphones have recessed mid thus recessed guitars and vocals, then why most people pick v-shaped headphones and call them more fun? I mean, most of the music out there has guitars or vocals, doesn't it?

Exactly! That's one of the great Hi-Fi mysteries out there, but to each their own...

 

[c61746961]

General question here: If v-shaped headphones have recessed mid thus recessed guitars and vocals, then why most people pick v-shaped headphones and call them more fun? I mean, most of the music out there has guitars or vocals, doesn't it?

Because of the kick drum. Many headphones exploit the pressurization of the cup to enhance the perceived dynamics, often leading to bass bloom. There's no replacement to true displacement, though, that's one of the few things the Abyss has going for it; true, lifelike dynamics (or so I've heard). Once you get over the pounding beats, you realize there's something missing in the voices and guitars, and the 'S's hurt in badly recorded music.
Sadly, many dynamic headphones have trouble in the 2-7 KHz region which is where most of the higher pitched harmonics of midrange instruments and voices reside (resolution, texture), and the M40x is no exception, nor is the M50x.

 

[MrPhilicorda]

WOW!!! Just got the Sound Professionals velvet earpads and I must say they are good! While I really like the M40x out of the box I always thought they were a little too bass-heavy and congested. The Sound Professionals pads really made a remarkable difference in that regard.

 
So far I used the M40x with Beyerdynamic DT250 ear pads as well as the Brainwavz HM5 velour pads. Where as the Beyer's made a subtle improvement in the right direction the HM5 pads went waaay to far. They completely killed bass. The SP-pads on the other hand did EXACTLY what I wanted. Bass is taken down to a level that I consider neutral and the overall sound is clearer and less congested. The soundstage has improved a lot IMO and when I compare to my Beyer DT880 (half open, decent soundstage) they are not that far apart. In general the new sound signature could be described as similar to DT880 except a little more warmth and punch in the bass.
 
Can't say too much on comfort yet except first impression is good. Compared to the stock pads they feel softer and nicer to the touch and they are about 5 millimeters thicker which means there is more distance between ear and driver (explains better soundstage/less bass).
 
 

 

[striner]

You thought they sounded too bass heavy out of the box? I see some reviews complain they lack bass, and others say "just neutral". If they just sound a bit more bass-y than my Sennheiser HD 439, I might consider buying this one. I'm afraid the M50x drowns out the mids too much, but also afraid the bass on M40x is not much more than the 439.

 

[MrPhilicorda]

 
Quote:

You thought they sounded too bass heavy out of the box? I see some reviews complain they lack bass, and others say "just neutral". If they just sound a bit more bass-y than my Sennheiser HD 439, I might consider buying this one. I'm afraid the M50x drowns out the mids too much, but also afraid the bass on M40x is not much more than the 439.

 
I'm not sure if you looked at the graph I posted earlier. The HD439 are BASS HEAVY and very far from what generally is considered "neutral". The M50x would probably be quite similar to them where as the M40x has LESS bass (but still north of neutral).
 
To give you an idea of how the Sennheiser HD439 compares to a pair of "neutral" headphones, look at the graph below. The Sennheisers (red) have elevated bass and highly reduced treble while the Beyer DT880 (blue) are relatively close the zero-line through out the frequency range. If compared side by side the Beyers would sound very bright and the Sennheiser very bassy and dark.
 
It seems that what you think you want and what you actually want are not the same thing.
 

 

[OMGLadyGaga]

Hello all,

I was looking at this thread for this headphone, I want to know your opinion on my current situation and if this headphone would be a good buy for me:

At the moment I own a Sennheiser HD 439, which I think provides great sound for its value. However, when I use it at work (office that can sometimes be noisy with people talking) I notice that sounds leaks through from outside in. I have to turn up the volume pretty high before I don't hear anything anymore, and even then I can still faintly hear my own typing on the keayboard. Also, I feel that for certain types of EDM, it doesn't give a nice "punch" (I'm trying to avoid the word "bass" here, because I don't need a constant deep sound all the time).

Would the M40x be a good replacement for this type of environment? Basically I'm looking for something 439-like, but with more isolation and a teeny bit more "oomph" (I wouldn't call myself a basshead, but I listen to a lot of genres, crossing the spectrum from all sorts of heavy metal to dance/house/drum and bass, and sometimes even piano). This is why I already dismissed the M50x, I see people describing them as having too much bass. I would like a flat response, just with a bit more punch than my 439's.
I also like the velour pads on my 439 very much, it makes for extended listening sessions without my ears overheating. I saw you can replace the ones on the M40x, in case this would be necessary for me.
Initially my budget was around 60 EUR/70 USD, but I couldn't find anything other than the HD439, so I had to crank it up a bit to ~100 USD, that's why I bumped into this one.

Get a Takstar Pro80, you can put velour pads on them if you must. Although haven't tried them that way. But they have more oomph in the bass and tons more clarity in the treble and mids, the hd439 are really dark and grainy lacking resolution and the bass is soft and loose but quantity is fine, I'm guessing this is what you don't like about them. The Takstar have more punch and quantity.

M50x is also good, don't be dissuaded by reports of too much bass they have more sub bass and less midbass than 439 so it comes out to play when necessary and relatively steers clear otherwise. Can also put velour on these.

M40x is better than 439 but it sounds artificial with much thinner mids and the treble can get quite bright at louder volumes, this is the advantage of the 439 is that they are so treble shy that they can be turned up pretty loud.

If you like the darker tonality of your 439s but want tighter bass and more clarity then the UE6000 is a much more refined version of it and is a really good deal nowadays

 

[striner]

Thanks both for the replies!
@MrPhilicorda: Yes, I saw the graph posted earlier, apologies for not replying to the statement. Although I see the 439s are bass heavy according to the graph, yet still it sounds "distant", I think due to the lack of isolation.
 
The problem is there isn't a shop nearby where I live that has these models available for trying on, so I'm completely dependent on online reviews and maybe the sonicsense sound samples, so apologies if I'm clogging the thread a bit with my questions, I'm just looking for as much info as possible before making a decision.
I can't find the Trakstar Pro80 and UE6000 anywhere in the Netherlands (where I live), but I will take a look at them today, and if one really speaks to me, maybe order via amazon.

 

[MrPhilicorda]

Quote:

  Thanks both for the replies!
@MrPhilicorda: Yes, I saw the graph posted earlier, apologies for not replying to the statement. Although I see the 439s are bass heavy according to the graph, yet still it sounds "distant", I think due to the lack of isolation.
 
The problem is there isn't a shop nearby where I live that has these models available for trying on, so I'm completely dependent on online reviews and maybe the sonicsense sound samples, so apologies if I'm clogging the thread a bit with my questions, I'm just looking for as much info as possible before making a decision.
I can't find the Trakstar Pro80 and UE6000 anywhere in the Netherlands (where I live), but I will take a look at them today, and if one really speaks to me, maybe order via amazon.

 
One word of caution regarding the Sonic Sense sound samples: they will not give a true representation of how the headphones will sound in the real world since they are coloured by whatever headphones/speakers you are listening through. They can only be used as a means to see how two sets of headphones compare relative to each other. If they would for instance have samples comparing the HD439 to a pair of M50x it would be useful for you in terms of hearing what the M50x adds or subracts in relation to the HD439 sound. But if you listened to the same song with an actual pair of M50x it would sound vastly different since it no longer would be coloured by whatever you were listening through earlier.
 
Hope that makes sense...
 
On the other hand I believe that in the end, if you really are into music & hi-fi, you would appreciate the level of detail and accuracy a pair of more neutral heaphones would give you. You always hear stories about people who are amazed how they can hear new instruments and details in their favourite music when they go from some basshead consumer phones (not referring to your headphones) to more neutral ones. If you for instance would buy a pair of M40x headphones you would probably think they sound bright and thin in the begining, but use them for one week and listen to the old headphones again and you will be surprised of how much detail you were missing.
I'm just speculating here though. I'm not trying to influence you and you may have reasons and needs that I'm not aware of. I'm basically just describing they "journey" I went through in the beginning.

 

[striner]

Thanks for the info
Just had a listen again to the sonicsense samples on soundcloud (this time through Sennheiser CX-175 IEMs) and, like someone else earlier noticed, the M40x sounds closer to the source track, for all genres. When compared to the M50x in the same set, I hear that the bass on the M50x is more pronounced, but all other frequencies are somewhere behind, as if someone put a blanket over the microphone.
 
Also, just had a mail conversation with the online retailer I was planning to buy from, and they told me I can buy either one, and send it back if I'm not pleased (although their return policy says headphones are excluded from return policy due to hygiene). If this holds, I think I will get the M40x at first, and if after a week of burn-in it's not what I expected, I will get the M50x

 

[Mad Max]

   
I'm not sure if you looked at the graph I posted earlier. The HD439 are BASS HEAVY and very far from what generally is considered "neutral". The M50x would probably be quite similar to them where as the M40x has LESS bass (but still north of neutral).
 
To give you an idea of how the Sennheiser HD439 compares to a pair of "neutral" headphones, look at the graph below. The Sennheisers (red) have elevated bass and highly reduced treble while the Beyer DT880 (blue) are relatively close the zero-line through out the frequency range. If compared side by side the Beyers would sound very bright and the Sennheiser very bassy and dark.
 
It seems that what you think you want and what you actually want are not the same thing.
 

 
A couple of decibels more than the midrange.  Wow.  So heavy.
 
If you want true "bass heavy", try a 32-ohm DT770.
 

 
HD4x9 are barely bassy if you actually try them.