AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[jabbr]

The reviewer of the Simaudio Neo 280D MIND DAC which has both ethernet and USB connection (via his microrendu) found little difference between these inputs so probably DAC dependent:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/moon-simaudio-n%C4%93o-280d-mind#4OekwCja5tfl4gfF.97

The ethernet connection is not AOIP. It doesn't say much about what MiND is. Probably just their DLNA implementation.

 

[REXNFX]

The ethernet connection is not AOIP. It doesn't say much about what MiND is. Probably just their DLNA implementation.

Yes was trying (and failing) to make the point it is not necessarily ethernet that's better.

 

[rb2013]

  And those Christmas tree of LED's merrily lights the way to musical nirvana.

 
Maybe later on but for now am just soaking in this musical bliss that I'm hearing.
 
Cheers!

That has got to sound pretty amazing!
 
How hard was it to make your silver DB-25/AES cable or did Audio Sens build that for you?
 
Cheers!
 
PS I'm selling my entire analog rig  - this digital AOIP is just to good for my LPs to compete.

 

[rb2013]

Anyone know how much jitter control quality studios use for recording? Do they use as much reclocking on top of an atomic clock? Or is analog to digital not as sensitive as digital to analog conversion in jitter?

Also is jitter quantifiable? If so how do we know when jitter level has been minimized to the point where any further reduction would be useless to a DAC.

I know a few Seattle studio engineers - most use a Antelope OCX like clock with a 10M.  Tascam makes a nice OXCO, as do a few other ProAudio companies.
 
The poorer ones just a Apogee BigBen.
 
My understanding is ADC is not as sensitive to precieved jitter - as it's the recording phase. But a recording not made with precision clocking becomes harder to 'decode' by a DAC.
 
So I guess the jitter winds up on the decoding side.
 
The concept is a unified agreement on clock SR - for both sides to lock to - deviations away from that SR cause jitter.  But there is phase noise to consider - not just SR accuracy.  Although they are somewhat related.

 

[rb2013]

The ethernet connection is not AOIP. It doesn't say much about what MiND is. Probably just their DLNA implementation.

Good point DNLA is not AOIP.
 

  Yes was trying (and failing) to make the point it is not necessarily ethernet that's better.

I have a EMU 1616M that's over 10yrs old - uses a PICMA card to a breakout box - connected by ethernet.  If any ethernet was the best solution - USB would never have come along.
 
It's not the ethernet itself but this particular implementation - that's what makes it better.

 

[wushuliu]

Well I've decided to take a different route, so my RN3 will be up for sale...

 

[jazzfan]

 

[Muziqboy]

 
That has got to sound pretty amazing!
 
How hard was it to make your silver DB-25/AES cable or did Audio Sens build that for you?
 
Cheers!
 
PS I'm selling my entire analog rig  - this digital AOIP is just to good for my LPs to compete.

 
Not really that hard to build a DB-25 to AES break-out cable. The only tricky part is trying to solder the right wires to the pins on the DB-25 connector since the pins are so close to each other. I got one of those desktop illuminated magnifier that I use when I do soldering work and it really helps out a lot.
 
Just follow this pin-outs.
 
DB-25 pin-out:                           3 Pin XLR pin-out:
   6 is negative (-)                          3 is negative (-)
 18 is positive  (+)                          2 is positive (+)
 19 is screen                                  1 is screen
 
You can get the DH Labs Silver Sonic wire from: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DH-Labs-Silver-Sonic-D-110-AES-EBU-Cable-Bulk-per-foot-DIY-Digital-cable-/360407119222?hash=item53e9f03576
 
For the 3 pin xlr silver pins connector: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NC3MXXBAG
 
For the DB-25 connector: http://www.showmecables.com/product/DB25-Male-Solder-Connector-Kit-Plastic.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=1164&gclid=Cj0KEQjw_qW9BRCcv-Xc5Jn-26gBEiQAM-iJhUq-OGIAftOX3QNzKVcn49u4-N9Z-_aDh1wbRtiYBycaAkAp8P8HAQ or you could get a metal one from Fry's.
 
Or if you want to build a better one, just order the AS Statement Silver XLR from Audio Sensibility then just change the female xlr connector side of the cable with the DB-25 connector. That is what I'm planning to do when I get mine.
 
Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

   
Not really that hard to build a DB-25 to AES break-out cable. The only tricky part is trying to solder the right wires to the pins on the DB-25 connector since the pins are so close to each other. I got one of those desktop illuminated magnifier that I use when I do soldering work and it really helps out a lot.
 
Just follow this pin-outs.
 
DB-25 pin-out:                           3 Pin XLR pin-out:
   6 is negative (-)                          3 is negative (-)
 18 is positive  (+)                          2 is positive (+)
 19 is screen                                  1 is screen
 
You can get the DH Labs Silver Sonic wire from: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DH-Labs-Silver-Sonic-D-110-AES-EBU-Cable-Bulk-per-foot-DIY-Digital-cable-/360407119222?hash=item53e9f03576
 
For the 3 pin xlr silver pins connector: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NC3MXXBAG
 
For the DB-25 connector: http://www.showmecables.com/product/DB25-Male-Solder-Connector-Kit-Plastic.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=1164&gclid=Cj0KEQjw_qW9BRCcv-Xc5Jn-26gBEiQAM-iJhUq-OGIAftOX3QNzKVcn49u4-N9Z-_aDh1wbRtiYBycaAkAp8P8HAQ or you could get a metal one from Fry's.
 
Or if you want to build a better one, just order the AS Statement Silver XLR from Audio Sensibility then just change the female xlr connector side of the cable with the DB-25 connector. That is what I'm planning to do when I get mine.
 
Cheers!

Thanks - will give the DigiDesign Cable a try, it that pans out will build one of these.  Wonder if you ask AS if they will do the DB25 connection for you.

 

[johnjen]

 
Thanks - will give the DigiDesign Cable a try, it that pans out will build one of these.  Wonder if you ask AS if they will do the DB25 connection for you.

I asked them about this and they replied that while they could, they weren't really setup to do it.
And you will be 'stuck' using the DB-25 they wind up using.
There are 'Better' DB-25's which are closer to 'Audio grade' than the usual 99¢ connectors.
 
The pins on the DB-25's are tiny and the Silver wire they use is rather stiff and almost to big in wire gauge so it makes for a challenging solder job, not to mention the shield wire connection is even bigger in gauge.
 
And using desktop magnifier/holder/illuminator device(s) are not only a significant aid but is just about mandatory for this job.
 
But the results are most gratifying…

 
JJ

 

[johnjen]

   
Not really that hard to build a DB-25 to AES break-out cable. The only tricky part is trying to solder the right wires to the pins on the DB-25 connector since the pins are so close to each other. I got one of those desktop illuminated magnifier that I use when I do soldering work and it really helps out a lot.
 
Just follow this pin-outs.
 
DB-25 pin-out:                           3 Pin XLR pin-out:
   6 is negative (-)                          3 is negative (-)
 18 is positive  (+)                          2 is positive (+)
 19 is screen                                  1 is screen
 
You can get the DH Labs Silver Sonic wire from: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DH-Labs-Silver-Sonic-D-110-AES-EBU-Cable-Bulk-per-foot-DIY-Digital-cable-/360407119222?hash=item53e9f03576
 
For the 3 pin xlr silver pins connector: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NC3MXXBAG
 
For the DB-25 connector: http://www.showmecables.com/product/DB25-Male-Solder-Connector-Kit-Plastic.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=1164&gclid=Cj0KEQjw_qW9BRCcv-Xc5Jn-26gBEiQAM-iJhUq-OGIAftOX3QNzKVcn49u4-N9Z-_aDh1wbRtiYBycaAkAp8P8HAQ or you could get a metal one from Fry's.
 
Or if you want to build a better one, just order the AS Statement Silver XLR from Audio Sensibility then just change the female xlr connector side of the cable with the DB-25 connector. That is what I'm planning to do when I get mine.
 
Cheers!

Additional notes.
That Neutrik connector won't work with the Statement Silver cable as that cable is 10mm in diameter and the 'standard' xx series of Neutrik connectors only range up to 8mm cable size.
They do make a version which can handle the 10mm cable size.
 
And that DB-25 is the 'standard' connector (and not the 'audio grade' version) which I mentioned previously.
 
JJ

 

[atomicbob]

Well, for anyone reading this thread it's clear that the pic is quite 'simple'. Didnt even want to mention the extra clocks, fibre-eth converters, the tens of "must" have LPSes, gold power cables, diamond fuses and groundboxes filled with the sand of audiogods.

Many of you guys are doing a great job riding the Aoip trend. But you gotta remember that this stuff should be used by people with eyes .. and spouses .. and wallets .. and limited time.
The connection between a transport and a Dac should be a cable .. *not* an awfull, mega expensive rack full of leds!
The only good news around here are those ravenna-to-i2s boards by Mivera-Audio. Hope they'll work as expected and will be followed by many similar.

the bleeding edge of exploration is never pretty.

 

[REXNFX]

  Well I've decided to take a different route, so my RN3 will be up for sale...

I for one would like to hear more how your alternative ethernet wired approach evolves (Server-Oppo-DAC). Certainly more WAF friendly and besides I need a new DVD player!

 

[wushuliu]

I for one would like to hear more how your alternative ethernet wired approach evolves (Server-Oppo-DAC). Certainly more WAF friendly and besides I need a new DVD player!

A diyaudio member sells an impressive custom linear power supply and clock upgrades for the Oppo, so that convinced me to return my rn3. As great as the Rednet is, I am a cinephile as well as an audiophile so it's a special opportunity to get my cake and eat it too.

 

[atomicbob]

O
An atomic clock is not so important for a studio, a good word clock is that is used to sync all adc/dac devices.

The value of an atomic clock is overrated, the quality of the word clock is much more important. And there an atomic clock can help just that little bit extra, ...... in some cases depending on the design parameters of the word clock.

this is so very true. Low short term phase noise is very important while long term accuracy isn't. Anyone wishing to play with atomic clocks should familiarize themselves with phase noise and Allan deviation specs. There is a fellow in the PNW that is Mr. Time owning more cesium and rubidium time references than most can imagine. He also rivals the gov't for time standard accuracy. This device evolved from his research:
http://www.jackson-labs.com/index.php/products/fury
I have had one of these in my lab/studio for years. Low phase noise and Alan deviation between a rubidium and cesium time reference.