AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[prot]

Yeah, that's kind of why I think the AES endpoint might be a good thing.  That's form-factor is not much different than a USB reclocker.

Saw that one a while ago. It has some limitations but certainly looks like a better solution than those led-fest-monsters. Unfortunately I havent found any reviews. And I'm still waiting for that small aoip receiver card that you put inside your Dac (i.e. replace the usb-to-iis card that most dacs have nowadays). Mivera seems to be working on one, although their page is somewhat unclear about how it'll work.

P.S.
Looks like there is still lots of confusion about what aoip is. Like with any new tech I guess it's normal .. but reading wikipedia is not so hard.
First hint: not every audio device with a network cable is aoip. In fact 99,99% of them are not .. that includes all modern Bluray players, streaming boxes like popcornhour/roku/firetv/appletv/androidtv/etc, all modern av receivers .. and many, many others.
And btw, many people on audio forums badmouth those AV receivers but the latest TOTL models from yamaha/marantz/etc are competitive with any midrange Dac separate .. and 10x easier to use plus tons of useful extras like dlna, room correction,.... And lastgen surround preprocessors like Marantz 8802 can sit near *any* Dac in terms of SQ .. and in any living room .. and overall are a much better investition than any 'simple' Dac.
Oh well, audio is growing fast and going all sorts of places nowadays .. which isnt bad at all

 

[rb2013]

Haven't had a chance to test dlna. Today was shopping with the missus. Oppo website search shows Asio for usb driver but nothing else. Hmmm...

So you are using the Oppo as just a pass through ethernet to spdif interface.  It has no s/w interface?  Is the output set by remote control or on TV screen?
 

  Currently, Windows or Mac only compatibility is a show stopper for me. Are there any plans for Linux compatibility ?

Lack of wi-fi compatibility for the Via application (which provides the ability to stream sound from a PC connected to the network, and looks fantastic on paper) is also a limiting factor.
 
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sms marketing

Not likely soon.

 

[rb2013]

Saw that one a while ago. It has some limitations but certainly looks like a better solution than those led-fest-monsters. Unfortunately I havent found any reviews. And I'm still waiting for that small aoip receiver card that you put inside your Dac (i.e. replace the usb-to-iis card that most dacs have nowadays). Mivera seems to be working on one, although their page is somewhat unclear about how it'll work.

P.S.
Looks like there is still lots of confusion about what aoip is. Like with any new tech I guess it's normal .. but reading wikipedia is not so hard.
First hint: not every audio device with a network cable is aoip. In fact 99,99% of them are not .. and that includes all modern Bluray players, streaming boxes like popcornhour/roku/firetv/appletv/androodtv/etc, all modern av receivers .. and many, many others.
And btw, many people on audio forums badmouth those AV receivers but the latest TOTL models from yamaha/marantz/etc are competitive with any midrange Dac separate .. and 10x easier to use plus tons of useful extras (dlna, room correction...). And lastgen surround preprocessors like Marantz 8802 can sit near *any* Dac in terms of SQ .. and in any living room .. and overall are a much better investition than any 'simple' Dac.
Oh well, audio is growing fast and going all sorts of places nowadays .. which isnt bad at all

That was discussed quite a while ago.  Based on the Ultimo chip on the BK I or II.  Limited to 96k and likely uses a on chip PLL clock vs a XO like the BK card.
 
Well I have defined AOIP vs AoIP as level three Ethernet IP protocol, now updated to the AES67 std.  AoIP can mean many other avenues such as AVB which is only level 2 and requires special switches.  Then there is DNLA/UpNP with does use a Ethernet cable.  But the use of a CAT5 cable for audio interfaces has been around for over a decade in proprietary formats.
 
In fact I still have a EMU-1616M. 
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/emu-1616m
 
But these are not AOIP.
See the beginning of my AOIP for references and links describing AES67.

 

[jabbr]

For me AOIP is quite simple to explain;
 
Streaming is all transfer of data van storage into a player (software or hardware)
AOIP is transfer of audio samples from player into an external DAC.
 
Storage ------ (Streaming/DLNA: file transport using IP-network) -------> Player ------- (AOIP: Audio Device sending audio samples over IP-network using real time protocol) -------> DAC

 

[wushuliu]

  So you are using the Oppo as just a pass through ethernet to spdif interface.  It has no s/w interface?  Is the output set by remote control or on TV screen?
 

 
Yes. Looks like that's the only option via ethernet. Output selection requires monitor/tv. However there is this app available for ios/android. Haven't tried it yet though.
 
I did back to back comparisons with my RN3 and no question the RN has better depth and separation and (possibly) inner detail. I do think the oppo has a lower noise floor - or a sin of omission that comes off that way. I will clarify my earlier post by saying that I prefer the oppo playback to any of the usb/spdif devices I've tried, and I'm wondering how much that has to do with not AOIP/Dante/Ravenna etc, obviously, but the ethernet connection itself when used as a spdif pass through, which aside from a few exceptions I have not found much feedback online from an audiophile perspective.

 

[rb2013]

  For me AOIP is quite simple to explain;
 
Streaming is all transfer of data van storage into a player (software or hardware)
AOIP is transfer of audio samples from player into an external DAC.
 
Storage ------ (Streaming/DLNA: file transport using IP-network) -------> Player ------- (AOIP: Audio Device sending audio samples over IP-network using real time protocol) -------> DAC

Great simplified explaination.
 
And does the use of a ICRON/Startech GB LAN Ethernet USB extender  make this USB AOIP? - of course not.

 

[rb2013]

   
Yes. Looks like that's the only option via ethernet. Output selection requires monitor/tv. However there is this app available for ios/android. Haven't tried it yet though.
 
I did back to back comparisons with my RN3 and no question the RN has better depth and separation and (possibly) inner detail. I do think the oppo has a lower noise floor - or a sin of omission that comes off that way. I will clarify my earlier post by saying that I prefer the oppo playback to any of the usb/spdif devices I've tried, and I'm wondering how much that has to do with not AOIP/Dante/Ravenna etc, obviously, but the ethernet connection itself when used as a spdif pass through, which aside from a few exceptions I have not found much feedback online from an audiophile perspective.

Interesting.  From what I hear my RN3 has a near zero floor noise.  Focusrite quotes <138db for it's internal SRC.
 
I wonder if the AES output of the RN3 would yield any better SQ then the SPDIF RCA?
 
I just picked up a nice Digidesign SUB-d 25 pin cable for $49  Will give that a try.  AES output maybe be better then SPDIF for connecting to the Mutec.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401117429920
 
The Oppo 103's sell for around $400 used on Ebay - so not that cheap.  But cheaper then a fully decked out F-1 chain.  And less then half the price of the RN3.
 
Thanks for posting that - it really is a unique find.

 

[wushuliu]

 
Interesting.  From what I hear my RN3 has a near zero floor noise.  Focusrite quotes <138db for it's internal SRC.
 
I wonder if the AES output of the RN3 would yield any better SQ then the SPDIF RCA?
 
I just picked up a nice Digidesign SUB-d 25 pin cable for $49  Will give that a try.  AES output maybe be better then SPDIF for connecting to the Mutec.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401117429920
 
The Oppo 103's sell for around $400 used on Ebay - so not that cheap.  But cheaper then a fully decked out F-1 chain.  And less then half the price of the RN3.
 
Thanks for posting that - it really is a unique find.

 
Yes, I've been wondering about the AES vs spdif. Which means reconfiguring my soekris to take AES, so I'm looking into that... So many rabbit holes, so little time...

 

[rb2013]

   
Yes, I've been wondering about the AES vs spdif. Which means reconfiguring my soekris to take AES, so I'm looking into that... So many rabbit holes, so little time...

I'll report on what I find - not expecting any earth shaking though.
 
Cheers

 

[Muziqboy]

I have been running the RN3 via DB-25 to AES ever since the last meet that we had. Using AES connection across the whole system now.
 
Re-configured a 0.7 meter DH Labs SilverSonic AES cable with a DB-25 connector. What we heard during the meet was a more holographic imaging of individual instruments as compared to Spdif. I also re-configured the AS Statement Silver SE Spdif cable into 4 bnc word clock cables from the LiveClock feeding the 2 Mutec+3 non usb & 1 Mutec+3 USB (daisy chained) and RN3.
 
The sound now has more solidity and impact with the more holographic imaging with the AES connection. It was a treat listening to a binaural recording of C.C. Colletti's 'Bring it On Home' album. The guitar was very clear and about a couple feet out of the left headphone cup and same with the harmonica which was out past the right cup.
Very engaging with toe-tapping goodness.
 
Got a 2.0 meter AS Statement Silver AES cable on the way and will re-configure it to a DB-25 to AES and 3 AES to AES cables when it gets here.

 

[rb2013]

  I have been running the RN3 via DB-25 to AES ever since the last meet that we had. Using AES connection across the whole system now.
 
Re-configured a 0.7 meter DH Labs SilverSonic AES cable with a DB-25 connector. What we heard during the meet was a more holographic imaging of individual instruments as compared to Spdif. I also re-configured the AS Statement Silver SE Spdif cable into 4 bnc word clock cables from the LiveClock feeding the 2 Mutec+3 non usb & 1 Mutec+3 USB (daisy chained) and RN3.
 
The sound now has more solidity and impact with the more holographic imaging with the AES connection. It was a treat listening to a binaural recording of C.C. Colletti's 'Bring it On Home' album. The guitar was very clear and about a couple feet out of the left headphone cup and same with the harmonica which was out past the right cup.
Very engaging with toe-tapping goodness.
 
Got a 2.0 meter AS Statement Silver AES cable on the way and will re-configure it to a DB-25 to AES and 3 AES to AES cables when it gets here.

Good feedback - then I hope to hear an improvement with AES out of the RN3 to the Mutec..  One thing I hate on the Mutec - the BNC SPDIF input socket is so close to the AC input.  The AES sockets are further away.

 

[Muziqboy]

For those of you looking for a nice equipment rack, I got this good looking 4U rack custom made by these guys.
http://www.madeinfarmington.com/audiorax-4-space-straight-rack
 

 

[gldgate]

  For those of you looking for a nice equipment rack, I got this good looking 4U rack custom made by these guys.
http://www.madeinfarmington.com/audiorax-4-space-straight-rack
 
 

 
Very nice rack.  Plus RedNet, Antelope, Theta and 3 Mutec's.  Talk about blinking LED's - That's some serious audio porn.

 

[seeteeyou]

  Very nice rack.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

[johnjen]

I too compared SPDIF vs AESs out from my RN3 to my PWD.
 
No doubt about it, the AES3 is 'Better' in every way that I use to describe better.
And that was using pro audio level 110Ω cable (≈50¢/ft) vs an Oyide SPDIF cable (≈$400).
 
Then I upgraded to the AS Statement Silver AES cable and the gap widened considerably.
And I'm not done optimizing my AES3 digital path yet.
 
JJ