AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[prot]

For those of you looking for a nice equipment rack, I got this good looking 4U rack custom made by these guys.
http://www.madeinfarmington.com/audiorax-4-space-straight-rack

I am a bit afraid to ask but I'll try: why 4 clocks? Maybe you can clarify the whole stup a bit .. seems intriguing.

 

[jabbr]

I am a bit afraid to ask but I'll try: why 4 clocks? Maybe you can clarify the whole stup a bit .. seems intriguing.

As I understand, the Mutecs are used as reclockers and not as clock sources. The Live is used as clock source (and not as reclocker  )
 
It has been shown by people who actually tried it (so not just a theoretical excercise) that with the 'old' Mutec MC-3+ reclockers the sound quality significantly benefitted by creating a daisy chain of reclockers.
Now you think of an explanation why that could be so 

 .
 
The new Mutec MC-3+USB has then again shown to be a better reclocker than a daisy chain of 3 'old' Mutec MC-3+ reclockers.
Now think again of an explanation why that could be so 

 .

 

[Muziqboy]

I am a bit afraid to ask but I'll try: why 4 clocks? Maybe you can clarify the whole stup a bit .. seems intriguing.

 
Signal starts from RN3 via DB-25 to AES going to 1st Mutec (non-usb) then to 2nd Mutec (non-usb) then to 3rd Mutec (usb version) being daisy-chained re-clocked and finally to dac. All are using the LiveClock as reference word clock.
 
All of this craziness relates to jitter reduction.
 
Here's the link to the cascaded Mutec experiment and findings. http://www.mutec-net.com/artikel.php?id=1388254422
 
I know it's crazy but you gotta hear it to believe it.

 
 
 

  As I understand, the Mutecs are used as reclockers and not as clock sources. The Live is used as clock source (and not as reclocker  )
 
It has been shown by people who actually tried it (so not just a theoretical excercise) that with the 'old' Mutec MC-3+ reclockers the sound quality significantly benefitted by creating a daisy chain of reclockers.
Now you think of an explanation why that could be so 

 .
 
The new Mutec MC-3+USB has then again shown to be a better reclocker than a daisy chain of 3 'old' Mutec MC-3+ reclockers.
Now think again of an explanation why that could be so 

 .
 

 
In that Mutec link, a guy named Fujak cascaded 4 non-usb Mutecs in daisy chained re-clocking mode.
 

 
 
This table represents his findings after each re-clocking stage.
 

 
 
I already had acquired the 2 non-usb Mutecs before I found out about the difference between the usb and non-usb version. Now I added a Mutec usb version so I guess it is comparable to having 4 non-usb cascaded.
The usb version sounded better on it's own than the 2 non-usb cascaded hands down.
 
But with the 2 non-usb in front and the usb ver. last before the dac, All I can say is that all those adjectives that relate to good SQ has been multiplied by 3.

 
Oh, and using all Silver AES digital, analog and bnc word clock cabling helped quite a bit too.

 

[prot]

As I understand, the Mutecs are used as reclockers and not as clock sources. The Live is used as clock source (and not as reclocker  )

It has been shown by people who actually tried it (so not just a theoretical excercise) that with the 'old' Mutec MC-3+ reclockers the sound quality significantly benefitted by creating a daisy chain of reclockers.
Now you think of an explanation why that could be so   .

The new Mutec MC-3+USB has then again shown to be a better reclocker than a daisy chain of 3 'old' Mutec MC-3+ reclockers.
Now think again of an explanation why that could be so   .

Thx for the extra info.
Cant really start to think about any of your open Qs cause I'm already stuck with the basic: why is reclocking needed? The Dac has a good clock, the RN3 too and there is the master Antelope clock too (which I assume/hope does sync all devices). So why using any of those mutecs?!

 

[jabbr]

Dac has a good clock

Why do you assume the DAC has a good clock? And why is it independent of the quality of the incoming SPDIF signal?
 

the RN3 too

And why does the RN3 have a good clock? Why can't the the jitter profile of the SPDIF output not be improved upon?
 

master Antelope clock too

This is the only part 'known' with a good clock.

 

[rb2013]

   
Signal starts from RN3 via DB-25 to AES going to 1st Mutec (non-usb) then to 2nd Mutec (non-usb) then to 3rd Mutec (usb version) being daisy-chained re-clocked and finally to dac. All are using the LiveClock as reference word clock.
 
All of this craziness relates to jitter reduction.
 
Here's the link to the cascaded Mutec experiment and findings. http://www.mutec-net.com/artikel.php?id=1388254422
 
I know it's crazy but you gotta hear it to believe it.

 
 
 
 
In that Mutec link, a guy named Fujak cascaded 4 non-usb Mutecs in daisy chained re-clocking mode.
 

 
 
This table represents his findings after each re-clocking stage.
 

 
 
I already had acquired the 2 non-usb Mutecs before I found out about the difference between the usb and non-usb version. Now I added a Mutec usb version so I guess it is comparable to having 4 non-usb cascaded.
The usb version sounded better on it's own than the 2 non-usb cascaded hands down.
 
But with the 2 non-usb in front and the usb ver. last before the dac, All I can say is that all those adjectives that relate to good SQ has been multiplied by 3.

 
Oh, and using all Silver AES digital, analog and bnc word clock cabling helped quite a bit too.

Now that's a Christmas tree of LED's.
 
 

The usb version sounded better on it's own than the 2 non-usb cascaded hands down. 

That's confirms Fujak's posting.  Good to hear.
 
Are you planning on trying a Rubidum atomic clock?

 

[Muziqboy]

And those Christmas tree of LED's merrily lights the way to musical nirvana.

 
Quote:

 
Now that's a Christmas tree of LED's.
 
 
That's confirms Fujak's posting.  Good to hear.
 
Are you planning on trying a Rubidum atomic clock?

 
Maybe later on but for now am just soaking in this musical bliss that I'm hearing.
 
Cheers!

 

[prot]

Muziqboy thx for the extra info, now it's at least clear how it all works. And the linked Fujak experiments were an interesting read too.

Still cannot understand why/how does the chain reclockin work. Did you get any technical explanation from your Mutec contacts?
And is it something particular to the Mutecs or it should work with any reclocker chain?

 

[Muziqboy]

@Muziqboy thx for the extra info, now it's at least clear how it all works. And the linked Fujak experiments were an interesting read too.

Still cannot understand why/how does the chain reclockin work. Did you get any technical explanation from your Mutec contacts?
And is it something particular to the Mutecs or it should work with any reclocker chain?

 
IMHO, what the chained re-clocking about is cleaning up the jitter at every stage of the Mutec chain until finally at the last stage, you end up with an almost zero jitter signal that feeds into the dac which equates to letting the dac perform to it's utmost peak potential.
 
I thought I was hearing an awesome sound coming out of my dac before with the usb converters that I was using previously until we discovered the RedNet's & Mutec's (re-clocking), Now, I am able to really hear what my vintage Theta dac is really capable of.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Anyone know how much jitter control quality studios use for recording? Do they use as much reclocking on top of an atomic clock? Or is analog to digital not as sensitive as digital to analog conversion in jitter?

Also is jitter quantifiable? If so how do we know when jitter level has been minimized to the point where any further reduction would be useless to a DAC.

 

[enginedr]

 
My question is how many Mutec boxes are really needed ? I have a RN-3 and a Antelope Live clock at  present and the SQ is superb
No one has stated there findings by taking the Mutec out of the mix and just using the RN and a external clock  

 

[REXNFX]

   
Yes. Looks like that's the only option via ethernet. Output selection requires monitor/tv. However there is this app available for ios/android. Haven't tried it yet though.
 
I did back to back comparisons with my RN3 and no question the RN has better depth and separation and (possibly) inner detail. I do think the oppo has a lower noise floor - or a sin of omission that comes off that way. I will clarify my earlier post by saying that I prefer the oppo playback to any of the usb/spdif devices I've tried, and I'm wondering how much that has to do with not AOIP/Dante/Ravenna etc, obviously, but the ethernet connection itself when used as a spdif pass through, which aside from a few exceptions I have not found much feedback online from an audiophile perspective.

The reviewer of the Simaudio Neo 280D MIND DAC which has both ethernet and USB connection (via his microrendu) found little difference between these inputs so probably DAC dependent:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/moon-simaudio-n%C4%93o-280d-mind#4OekwCja5tfl4gfF.97

 

[jabbr]

O

Anyone know how much jitter control quality studios use for recording? Do they use as much reclocking on top of an atomic clock? ......

An atomic clock is not so important for a studio, a good word clock is that is used to sync all adc/dac devices.

The value of an atomic clock is overrated, the quality of the word clock is much more important. And there an atomic clock can help just that little bit extra, ...... in some cases depending on the design parameters of the word clock.

 

[jabbr]

......

Also is jitter quantifiable? If so how do we know when jitter level has been minimized to the point where any further reduction would be useless to a DAC.

Can you describe your interpretation of the word 'jitter'?
That might help clarify your line of thought with this question.

 

[jabbr]

 

My question is how many Mutec boxes are really needed ? I have a RN-3 and a Antelope Live clock at  present and the SQ is superb
No one has stated there findings by taking the Mutec out of the mix and just using the RN and a external clock  

I have and with the Mutec it is definitely a step up.