[jelt2359]

AFAIK no one here can answer your question yet as none of us have sipped from that 10M cup due to expense and the incredibly rapid pace of our recent discoveries...and purchases.

...so we would be guessing. Probably one of us will cave in eventually as the curiosity gets to us...

Personally I am literally running out of rack/cabinet space.

There's still time before it is released. My hopes are on you and/or gldgate to boldly drink from the chalice before any other.

 

[rb2013]

   
Until the Ref10 comes out I don't think anyone knows for sure. From what I hear the Mutec will be cheaper than the Antelope 10MX. The older 10M is officially discontinued so we may start seeing deals on those as well. There is also the Stanford Research Perf 10. My understanding is that Stanford clock is actually what is used in the 10M but that Antelope adds some additional audio type improvements (power supply etc..) For those on the budget there is also a Rubidium clock from China that sells for about $1100-$1200. 
 
Given the quality and performance of the Mutec MC-3+USB I will be following the Ref10 release very closely.  
 
Will say that given the nose-bleed pricing of state of the art clocks the Antelope Liveclock really fits a market niche. Glad another forum member shed light on this more affordable option.
 
Too bad rb2013 is posting less here. He got the ball rolling on the RedNet/external clock issue. So grateful for his input.

Thanks for that!
 
I wish Antelope published the phase noise numbers and clock accuracy for the 10M and 10MX - like SR does for the Perf10.  See my post from awhile ago on the other thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived/2940#post_12713793
 
Phase Noise for the PERF10 <-130 dBc/Hz (10 Hz) is truly extraordinary - especially for a Rubidium clock which tend to have very high phase noise  (they use a special cross cut crystal to do this).

The issues of short term AND long term clock rate stability do matter!  If your audio device needs a precise 24.576MHz clock for example - both the short term stability will of course matter - but so does the long term drift away from the original designed frequency.  If your clock adds +1ppm per year that is moving away from the desired precise frequency.
 
See my post here comparing a typical OXCO and the Cyrstek CCHD clocks (neither Antelope nor Mutec publish figures on their internal clocks or their phase noise - Sheeh!).  But Antelope mentions sub 1ppm accuracy for it's OCX):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived/2940#post_12716172
 
Well designed Rubidium clocks are orders of magnitude better in all regards.
 
The Rednet (using a XO clock), Mutec with a XO 1GHz, and the Antelope using a OXCO - use the 10Mhz input from the atomic clock as a 'disciplining' reference frequency to lock to - which helps their clocking maintain precision.  This provides them much greater short term and maybe even more important - LONG TERM clock frequency accuracy.
 
SR makes a lab equipment version of the PERF10 (not as pretty - no leds for example) that is cheaper the FS725
http://www.thinksrs.com/products/FS725.htm

 

[rb2013]

  Finally got my second word clock cable in today so I was able to hook up mutec to external clock as well. I agree with the board consensus opinion. The antelope Liveclock is not only better on the RedNet but I prefer it on Mutec as well. If anything, I think the Mutec benefits even more than the RedNet from the Antelope. Same type of improvements as with the RedNet (more solid imaging) but even more magnified. Before purchasing the Antelope I was on the fence as to the importance of external clocks. I'm well off the fence now. If anything, I'm even more curious on how a 10M clock would perform. Still amazed at the versatility of the Mutec box. Whether internal or external clock reference, USB or AOIP, Mutec's reclocking has shown to improve sq across the board. Good stuff.

How did you hook up the Liveclock to the Mutec as ext clock  At least on my Mutec MC-3+ USB it only accepts a 1-10Mhz ext clock and the Antelope OCX can only output up to 192K - after looking over the manual of the Liveclock - I believe that is the same.
 
It appears that the Mutec would require a higher ext Wclock rate to work.

 

[RKML0007]

From the Mutec 3+ USB manual

 

[RKML0007]

Also need to switch internal jumper to allow external clock input.

 

[jabbr]

..... Having both devices using the Antelope provides better sq to my ears.  

+1 my experience as well.

 

[mourip]

 
How did you hook up the Liveclock to the Mutec as ext clock  At least on my Mutec MC-3+ USB it only accepts a 1-10Mhz ext clock and the Antelope OCX can only output up to 192K - after looking over the manual of the Liveclock - I believe that is the same.
 
It appears that the Mutec would require a higher ext Wclock rate to work.

 
The upper BNC on the right accepts both WCLK and 1-10M in. That is how I hooked mine up after setting up the config to External and Re-Clock...
 
The labeling is confusing. Took me a few to figure it out.

 

[mourip]

+1 my experience as well.

 
Ditto...

 

[gldgate]

 
Here is a pic of my Mutec setting. Can't see the Antelope but is just to the right of the Mutec. 
 
It is possible that the  Mutec is doing something different than I think it is (would not be the first time). However, based on reading the manual a few times I believe the LED indicators are telling me I am externally reclocking using the Antelope. 
 
This pix was snapped when I was playing something from Roon/Tidal so it's at 44.1Khz. I also was able to play files natively at 96Khz and 192Khz as well. I was also able to upsample to 192Khz in Jriver.
 
If I'm doing something wrong someone let me know.

 

[jabbr]

 

 
Here is a pic of my Mutec setting. Can't see the Antelope but is just to the right of the Mutec. 
 
It is possible that the  Mutec is doing something different than I think it is (would not be the first time). However, based on reading the manual a few times I believe the LED indicators are telling me I am externally reclocking using the Antelope. 
 
This pix was snapped when I was playing something from Roon/Tidal so it's at 44.1Khz. I also was able to play files natively at 96Khz and 192Khz as well. I was also able to upsample to 192Khz in Jriver.
 
If I'm doing something wrong someone let me know.

 
Hi Gldgate
 
This is completely RIGHT !!!
 
First column says it is reclocking using an external source.
Second column says it is using the AES3/1 connector for the audio signal used as reference for sample rate.
 
The two blue lights tell you:
1. top one: it has a lock on the incoming audio signal.
2. second from top: it has a lock on the external clock signal.
 
Pressing menu and select together and hold it for 3(?) seconds will turn off all the lights exept power and the two block lock leds. This is quite fiddely thought, to get them pressed properly together (according to the Mutec that is). It gives a more quiet image though.
 
cheers


PS.
You did also set the RedNet to use an external clock?
You set it in RedNet Control / Settings of your device (Spanner symbol) / RedNet Clock Source / BNC input (word clock)


PS2.
In RedNet Control I also saved the settings to a file using the default name offered, as I don't know if all settings are remembered across reboots/power down situations.

 

[jabbr]

   
The upper BNC on the right accepts both WCLK and 1-10M in. That is how I hooked mine up after setting up the config to External and Re-Clock...
 
The labeling is confusing. Took me a few to figure it out.

 
It is indeed confusing, but you are right. It has one incoming BNC for the external clock, be it a word clock or a 1-10M clock.
 
This has become a device with a lot of features in a little box, so indeed labeling can be a bit short and cramped in space.

 

[joelha]

 

 

 
Here is a pic of my Mutec setting. Can't see the Antelope but is just to the right of the Mutec. 
 
It is possible that the  Mutec is doing something different than I think it is (would not be the first time). However, based on reading the manual a few times I believe the LED indicators are telling me I am externally reclocking using the Antelope. 
 
This pix was snapped when I was playing something from Roon/Tidal so it's at 44.1Khz. I also was able to play files natively at 96Khz and 192Khz as well. I was also able to upsample to 192Khz in Jriver.
 
If I'm doing something wrong someone let me know.

 
Hi Gldgate
 
This is completely RIGHT !!!
 
First column says it is reclocking using an external source.
Second column says it is using the AES3/1 connector for the audio signal used as reference for sample rate.
 
The two blue lights tell you:
1. top one: it has a lock on the incoming audio signal.
2. second from top: it has a lock on the external clock signal.
 
Pressing menu and select together and hold it for 3(?) seconds will turn off all the lights exept power and the two block lock leds. This is quite fiddely thought, to get them pressed properly together (according to the Mutec that is). It gives a more quiet image though.
 
cheers


PS.
You did also set the RedNet to use an external clock?
You set it in RedNet Control / Settings of your device (Spanner symbol) / RedNet Clock Source / BNC input (word clock)


PS2.
In RedNet Control I also saved the settings to a file using the default name offered, as I don't know if all settings are remembered across reboots/power down situations.

"Pressing menu and select together and hold it for 3(?) seconds will turn off all the lights exept power and the two block lock leds. This is quite fiddely thought, to get them pressed properly together (according to the Mutec that is). It gives a more quiet image though."
 
So you're saying with the lights off it looks better or it actually sounds better?
 
Joel

 

[jabbr]

  "Pressing menu and select together and hold it for 3(?) seconds will turn off all the lights exept power and the two block lock leds. This is quite fiddely thought, to get them pressed properly together (according to the Mutec that is). It gives a more quiet image though."
 
So you're saying with the lights off it looks better or it actually sounds better?
 
Joel

it looks better, not having to look at so many green and red LED lights

 

[enginedr]

I found this on CA -http://pinknoisemag.com/pink-papers/pink-paper-002

 

[jabbr]

 
I found this on CA -http://pinknoisemag.com/pink-papers/pink-paper-002

I have read that before. Nice article.
Also shows that different master clocks can still create different sound quality/colorations.