[johnjen]

Understand on static measurements...

But the frequency response curves of the system with/without fuses should tell you everything, no?

The frequency response measurement itself is still a 'static' measurement, which is unlike music.

We are talking subtle nuances of phase and other circuitry response characteristics (slew rate, overall phase response, as well as possible impedance mismatches etc), due to the constantly changing voltage, current, waveform shape and frequency, all at the same time.
IOW we're talking about how well the circuitry can handle subtle nuances of the original music signal AND to see if we can make an 'improvement' to the devices SQ ability, all at the same time.

And when you think about it, ALL of the energy to deliver ALL of our music to us, MUST pass thru the fuse(s).
And so they can perceived as a 'choke point' (CP), a place where EVERYTHING downstream of each CP can be, will be, does get, affected, in some form or other.
And in some cases these CP's can actually make an audible impact on SQ that while seemingly subtle can add an inordinate amount of pleasure while listening to music.

Fuses are an easily overlooked aspect of any design, after all their primary and only real important job is keep your device from overcooking itself and causing a house fire.
Ya know, fire damage and insurance claims and and all that.
RIGHT?

Uhmmm, no, not in all cases.

Fuses are amongst the most simple, straight forward and refundable (should you decide they don't work for you) 'tweak', that more often than not, anyone can implement to see if they are of any benefit, or not.

JJ

 

[analogTubeSound]

The frequency response measurement itself is still a 'static' measurement, which is unlike music.

We are talking subtle nuances of phase and other circuitry response characteristics (slew rate, overall phase response, as well as possible impedance mismatches etc), due to the constantly changing voltage, current, waveform shape and frequency, all at the same time.
IOW we're talking about how well the circuitry can handle subtle nuances of the original music signal AND to see if we can make an 'improvement' to the devices SQ ability, all at the same time.

And when you think about it, ALL of the energy to deliver ALL of our music to us, MUST pass thru the fuse(s).
And so they can perceived as a 'choke point' (CP), a place where EVERYTHING downstream of each CP can be, will be, does get, affected, in some form or other.
And in some cases these CP's can actually make an audible impact on SQ that while seemingly subtle can add an inordinate amount of pleasure while listening to music.

Fuses are an easily overlooked aspect of any design, after all their primary and only real important job is keep your device from overcooking itself and causing a house fire.
Ya know, fire damage and insurance claims and and all that.
RIGHT?

Uhmmm, no, not in all cases.

Fuses are amongst the most simple, straight forward and refundable (should you decide they don't work for you) 'tweak', that more often than not, anyone can implement to see if they are of any benefit, or not.

JJ

I am just having a hard time that a short piece of conductor can make such a difference in sound quality. call me a non-believer. I would like a way to see it. Their website says "quantum sound" bs lingo... There has to be a simple way to quantify a 200$ fuse link?

 

[analogTubeSound]

 

[analogTubeSound]

To be clear my point is not to say this product is scam. I just want to see some data. I would love someone or the MFG'r to post some data showing testing... That is all.... Without data opinions are easily persuaded by dollars spent in my experience.

 

[IanB52]

To be clear my point is not to say this product is scam. I just want to see some data. I would love someone or the MFG'r to post some data showing testing... That is all.... Without data opinions are easily persuaded by dollars spent in my experience.

I think realistically, these fuses work, but nobody really knows why, hence the "quantum" marketing voodoo. There remains the question of what would be the most meaningful measurement for a fuse, from a manufacturer's perspective, as it is somewhat interactive with the component you put it in. From a consumer point of view I think measuring the whole system would tell a lot, but all systems are different.

It might be helpful if they published some data, but honestly I think from a business perspective they are selling a lot of these and want to maintain some mystique. Most people figure $150-200 isn't that big of a risk to try it, and I believe you can return them.

 

[rangerid]

For those that believe fuses make a difference and have SR Purple, how big of an improvement would you say it is over stock, like in realms of an upgraded headphone cable, power cord, interconnects? I'm considering it for my ARC preamp.

 

[IanB52]

For those that believe fuses make a difference and have SR Purple, how big of an improvement would you say it is over stock, like in realms of an upgraded headphone cable, power cord, interconnects? I'm considering it for my ARC preamp.

To me, it's probably equivalent to a power cable upgrade.

 

[johnjen]

One of the more plausible 'explanations' for why fuses can make a difference is…

As ALL of the power that is used by our audio devices is channeled into a single 'short' chunk of wire or 'fuseable link', it will change it's operational characteristics.
As our devices demand current be drawn over said 'fuseable link' and so it gets heated up (slightly), and then cooled down, and this continues to happen repeatedly, and at the rate of the line frequency times 2, these conditions continuously change the 'response' of the fuse in terms of allowing current to pass as the heat is affecting the voltage and current simultaneously.

IOW the current flows and then stops flowing (enough to cause a change in it's internal resistance and thus its internal heat generation is 'pulsed' and so the 'short chunk' of wire reacts to this pulsed heating and cooling, both physically and electrically, which can happen in either a rhythmic pattern, or more of a randomized fashion depending upon the power demands of the downstream device.

IOW some devices present a more or less steady demand for power (for instance digital devices) while power amps will vary their power needs based on a whole slew of operational factors.

And even if you wanted to monitor the 'short chunk' of wire in terms of voltage and current and heat and expansion etc. (which is an expensive proposition no matter how you do it) those ≈ 3-4ms 'ON' pulses followed by ≈8ms cool down 'OFF' periods, would be a complex interaction that few would grasp enough to understand how they all interact and also how they could tie into changes of SQ.

Thus the, 'try it for yourself, or not', advice.

And I do agree the advertising and marketing copy is over the top, nothing new there by any stretch, especially in audio.

The 'proof' is in the listening, not analyzing, measuring, discussing, pondering, expecting concrete answers, or absolute proof etc, etc.

Your choice.

JJ

 

[Lvivske]

To be clear my point is not to say this product is scam. I just want to see some data. I would love someone or the MFG'r to post some data showing testing... That is all.... Without data opinions are easily persuaded by dollars spent in my experience.

I would suggest pulling up data on the 2nd Stage Rev. 2.0 Molecular realignment process

 

[johnjen]

I would suggest pulling up data on the 2nd Stage Rev. 2.0 Molecular realignment process

AKA
Deep, weekend long, Cryogenic treatment…


JJ

 

[Claypole]

Ok, so these audiophile grade fuses affect the mains electrical supply into the audio equipment in subtle ways that result in a change in the sound quality of the device.

However, a typical mains supply can vary in voltage by as much as +\- 10%. Wouldn't a voltage drop of that size affect the device at least as much, if not more than the fuse?

Also, what about the mains socket that the plug goes into? The connections could be of poor quality, which could also affect the device, and ultimately, sound quality. In fact, there could be all sorts of issues with a household electrical supply that could affect the end result.

So, what are people doing to ensure the power going through the fuse is as perfect as possible? Are you susing some kind of mains conditioner?

 

[Lvivske]

honestly I've heard enough recommendations to leave power standard and not to fuss with purifiers which can actually have a negative effect unless you're trying to solve for a noise issue

 

[johnjen]

Ok, so these audiophile grade fuses affect the mains electrical supply into the audio equipment in subtle ways that result in a change in the sound quality of the device.

However, a typical mains supply can vary in voltage by as much as +\- 10%. Wouldn't a voltage drop of that size affect the device at least as much, if not more than the fuse?

Also, what about the mains socket that the plug goes into? The connections could be of poor quality, which could also affect the device, and ultimately, sound quality. In fact, there could be all sorts of issues with a household electrical supply that could affect the end result.

So, what are people doing to ensure the power going through the fuse is as perfect as possible? Are you susing some kind of mains conditioner?

I have looked into these and other related issues and have written up my findings, if interested, look at my sigline and follow the link(s).

Bottom line is, it's not the voltage fluctuations that are really important, as it is the ability to deliver current in small regularly timed pulses that 'feed the need' so to speak.
And yes the duplex receptacles, the IEC connectors, the standard ac plugs, the fuses, and more, are all possible CP's (Choke Points) in terms of limiting these ≈ 3-4ms current pulses that feed our equipment.
And since so many have noted changes/improvements JUST by changing the fuse, let alone the rest of the ac power chain back to the transformer on the pole, or in the vault underground.
Additionally there are those who have jumped ALL the way down this rabbit hole and have discovered just how DEEP it truly is, myself included.

JJ

 

[IanB52]

I have looked into these and other related issues and have written up my findings, if interested, look at my sigline and follow the link(s).

Bottom line is, it's not the voltage fluctuations that are really important, as it is the ability to deliver current in small regularly timed pulses that 'feed the need' so to speak.
And yes the duplex receptacles, the IEC connectors, the standard ac plugs, the fuses, and more, are all possible CP's (Choke Points) in terms of limiting these ≈ 3-4ms current pulses that feed our equipment.
And since so many have noted changes/improvements JUST by changing the fuse, let alone the rest of the ac power chain back to the transformer on the pole, or in the vault underground.
Additionally there are those who have jumped ALL the way down this rabbit hole and have discovered just how DEEP it truly is, myself included.

JJ

To me, this sounds intuitively correct. It's like you are loosening (and cleaning up) the choke from cable/wall into the psu/component, effectively increasing the juice.

Caelin Gabriel has a couple white papers about power supplies "sip" AC in pulses, and it matters how much current is delivered in each pulse.

 

[johnjen]

Yes, I saw Caelin's videos and white papers as well.
So I purchased an ASCC (Available Short Circuit Current) tester and performed several experiments using several types of power delivery and several different cables and duplex receptacles, and then measured the actual current draw into a 'test mule' HP amp using a non contact current sense probe.

The 3-4ms current flow pulses are followed by ≈ 8ms of wait time, or no current flow, in a continuous sequence.
So for 2) 3-4ms pulses out of a 16.6ms full ac 60Hz cycle, only ≈50% (at best) of the time will current flow into our gear.

So the greater the ability to quickly dump current from the upstream electrical service the 'better' our gear tends to sound.

In fact, if you know what you are doing AND have sufficient experience with ac power distribution systems, you can 'tidy up' the branch circuit that feeds your audio gear, and in a variety of ways.
Such as making sure the breaker clamp screw used to feed power to the branch circuit for our gear, that resides in the power distribution box, is tight and the wire lead has not been overheated etc.

I went so far as to use twist locks and soldered all of the romex to romex splices and noticed an immediate SQ improvement for the dedicated branch that feeds my audio system, ESPECIALLY the ground wire.

Optimizing the ac power current delivery capability, can definitely yield an improvement, even in our low powered HP systems, let alone higher powered speaker systems.

JJ