[ccschua]

On the other hand, will Kingwa launch a product that is less superior than its predecessor ? perhaps we are talking about 2 different product. NFB more neutral than Ref 7.

 

[Kingwa]

I had finished a dual WM8741 DAC built in a RE7 chassis months ago. But I can't release it now, because we have not enough workers, I already hear some lot customers explain the shipping date delay.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

On the other hand, will Kingwa launch a product that is less superior than its predecessor ? perhaps we are talking about 2 different product. NFB more neutral than Ref 7.

 
Seriously though...I take pricing within a company's product portfolio very seriously.  Whoever said that the NFB7 was the "successor" to the Reference 7...both share the number 7 in the title...but only one of them is named "Reference".
 
The more I look into the Sabre...the more I am unconvinced...they play a number game...big numbers equal big performance, they won't disclose the juicy information.  8 channel D/A convertors in one Sabre DAC equals the eight PCM1704UK...right.
 
I for one am glad to know that the 8 dac chips were put in my dac with 7.1 hometheater audio far from any of its priorities...something I can't say the same of for the Sabre.  I'm still not convinced that the Sabre...whilst undeniably impressive can claim to be the "best" delta sigma dac.
 

 

[MrGreen]

Kingwa, is there any way we will be able to get even basic information about this dac's performance? SNR, THD, Channel Separation? In both 24 and 16 bit if possible (I think this can go 24 bit, I can't remember)

 

[domho7]

I emailed Kingwa on stock availability of Ref-7 & NFB7 or 8, Reply was it needs around 15days to build one.

 

[tll]

Last night, my friend brought his Oyaide to my place and swap out my stereolab xv ultra.
Don't like the DB-510, much prefer my xv ultra with more air, better image and more dynamic with no digital glare.
 
The gent who sold his xv ultra to me bought a AU24.
 
 
Quote:

Hi,
 
I found the blackcat velose quite musical and value for money. The other option is Oyaide DB-510. I was told the audience AU24 is a step higher.
 
Quote:

 
 
Its funny because now that I have a proper 75 ohm BJC digital cable...not just an audio RCA...the Ref 7 sounds even more nostalgic than with the incorrect jittery interfaces.  This nostalgic tone is coupled with more precision, separation, relaxation and speed,  It just sounds more realistic in its staging and imaging, they are further "grounded" and even less "floaty".  As in localisation of instruments... all my SD dacs in general have a ridiculous imaging situation where one note is floating, another note is more forward and one is more grounded...it doesn't help 3 dimensionality when all these notes come from the same instrument and is supposed to be "grounded" to one location on a 2 dimensional plane that is the horizontal floor.  Only Superman can play a guitar in mid-air...and then come forward within an eighth of a bar to pluck the next note.  This causes fatigue just thinking about it.
 
I really didn't want to hear differences in digital cables...I really didn't want to know about having to spend more money on cabling...the situation is ridiculous.  Still the very least one can do is spend on a properly engineered digital cable that adheres to the digital standard...I recommend at least getting the BJC...at least the one that came with the R7...if it works.
 
The NOS dac is dead and buried...long live the Reference 7.

 

 

[pasgod]

Hello kingwa,
 
i am happy to read you and to see we had the same idea about a NFB7 with Wolfson. I am curious about its sound.
Sabre is all about clarity, details, dynamic. I presume wolfson dac is a little smoother, warmer perhaps a little thicker, and a little less impact in bass, but you are the only one who have listened to it. I think this dac could be a very good product later when you have time.
 
I look forward to read what people say about NFB 10 WM (the first Audio GD balanced dac and amp with wolfson) when they will receive it.
 
Pascal. 

 

[vrln]

I just setup a Cambridge Audio CD player rig at my parents place and was suprised by the non-digital sound (uses dual Wolfson). It was much better than I expected. Seems like a good chip.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

I just setup a Cambridge Audio CD player rig at my parents place and was suprised by the non-digital sound (uses dual Wolfson). It was much better than I expected. Seems like a good chip.

Digital doesn't have a sound. Analog doesn't either. The "analog sound" comes from inadequacies in older analog equipment.

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

I had finished a dual WM8741 DAC built in a RE7 chassis months ago. But I can't release it now, because we have not enough workers, I already hear some lot customers explain the shipping date delay.

Kingwa, I'm definitely looking forward to more information about it. I have a love affair with this chip. 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Quote:

I just setup a Cambridge Audio CD player rig at my parents place and was suprised by the non-digital sound (uses dual Wolfson). It was much better than I expected. Seems like a good chip.

Digital doesn't have a sound. Analog doesn't either. The "analog sound" comes from inadequacies in older analog equipment.

 
True but it is still jargon many people use freely around here... no need to isolate one person for using such a term.
 
But you are correct, the analogue sound is due to less than ideal performance... which ironically some people really enjoy even if it is the antithesis of "hi-fi" in a literal sense.
 
You should try try auditioning the Ref - 7 though.. it is fantastic. Although I am sure mr. contrarian could find something it does horribly wrong ... or make it up if he had to .

 

[ccschua]

Can I know what cable upgrade is available for ref 7, OCC cable ?
 
what is the socket upgrade and for what improvement ?

 

[vrln]

Quote:

Quote:

I just setup a Cambridge Audio CD player rig at my parents place and was suprised by the non-digital sound (uses dual Wolfson). It was much better than I expected. Seems like a good chip.

Digital doesn't have a sound. Analog doesn't either. The "analog sound" comes from inadequacies in older analog equipment.

No crap Sherlock Audiophile jargon semantics is an interesting topic though. Analogue is synonymous with "very good", meaning non-harsh and edgy (= digital) while still keeping a high level of detail. There are 10 ways in audiophile jargon to describe the same thing... It doesn´t make much sense though. Ideally there should be a general standard for describing audio to clear up all the nonsense.

 

[Dynobot]

 
 
I have a silly question.
 
What % of the so called "Digital" sound would you guys attribute to the chip alone, vs other aspects of the Dac's design, like ummm say the power supply and regulation?
 

 

[SP Wild]

So far for me, when it come to true timbre and tone...100 percent goes to ladder dac architecture.  None of my sigma delta dacs can achieve this.  This is evident with any transducer.
 
Digital grunge, hash and fatigue and uncontrolled electronic resonance...100 percent ladder dac seems to be free from it.  However the Bryston is significantly free from it...however there is a teeny weeny minute traces of it still there...and it is the only Delta sigma DAC that doesn't kill me with digital fatigue.  Its also the only hi-end delta sigma dac I've owned.  This phenomena only occured with ultra resolution transducers.
 
There hasn't been enough evidence in my experience to support any decision to purchase another delta sigma dac.  Whether it oversamples or not, my experience is pointing at ladder dacs as the only design that correctly captures the elements of real "music".