[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dro how's it going with your RE1 ? Any more impressions to share ? Peete.

A few, although actually it's quite hard for me to find enough time to listen to the Reference One. It's usually just two or three hours a day. I could put the Reference One in my home office of course, which would give me more time to spend with the unit. But then I would simply be listening all the time and getting even less work done than otherwise.

First of all, I'm amazed by how long it takes to get to full steam. From the moment of power on it takes close to an hour to fully warm up and show its full potential. Certainly the first 10 or 20 minutes after power on it doesn't sound very special at all, simply a good DAC, a few steps up from the Compass DAC, but then the magic starts happening... I would advise people to let the unit warm up sufficiently before listening to it, but on the other hand, it's rather intriguing to hear it come to full bloom while you're listening.

I took some time this morning to do a small comparison of the Compass amp and the Corda Opera amp with the Reference One behind them. I could post it in the C-2C, Phoenix or Compass threads, but I might as well do it here.
Feeding both amps with this superior source, the difference in distance to the music between the two amps seems to have disappeared. The feeling of being in the front row with the Compass, while sitting in the middle of the hall with the Corda Opera was not there anymore. What does become far more apparent in this setup is that the Corda Opera is actually the superior amp in most areas by quite a margin. (Well, it better be, given the price difference.) Soundstage width and depth and all sorts of subtle details are simply done better by the Opera, even if I give the Audio-gd chain of Reference One and Compass both the benefit of the superior (Audio-gd) power cords. (I haven't yet ascertained whether this is a real benefit, by the way.) I have to emphasise that I was only listening to classical music, I'm actually sure that the Compass still has the more PRaTty and faster amp, that's simply the only area where the Opera is lacking.

It was very interesting to notice that the Reference One makes the crossfeed feature of the Corda Opera really redundant. I already didn't particular like the way it reduced sound quality, but now the benefit of the crossfeed putting the soundstage in front of you instead of between your ears is not there anymore. The sound from the Reference One is so spacious that the music isn't between your ears anyways.
Again I have to add the 'caveat' that those impressions also refer mainly to recordings of classical music. Listening to "Revolver" by The Beatles with its 'dual mono' effects had me reaching for crossfeed rightaway.

 

[mattbr]

i quickly scanned through the thread, but i couldn't find a rundown of the features anywhere - for one, is it possible to switch sources ?

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattbr /img/forum/go_quote.gif i quickly scanned through the thread, but i couldn't find a rundown of the features anywhere - for one, is it possible to switch sources ?

No, it isn't. Since it was meant to be used with an optical disc transport, I guess that was not seen as a useful feature.

 

[mattbr]

bummer. would have loved to use it on both a disc transport and an airport express

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattbr /img/forum/go_quote.gif bummer. would have loved to use it on both a disc transport and an airport express

I guess it should be possible to build a simple switching device to put before the digital input of the Reference One that would allow you to switch inputs.

Alternatively, you could always ask Audio-gd (Kingwa) what the possibilities are for customization.

 

[josep]

If you are a bit handy with DIY, here is what you do need:
S/PDIF 4:1 Receiver/MUX Module
(look at the left column, there are Toslink and USB modules too)
Very high quality

And, off course, I am not affiliated in any way to TPA...

 

[punk_guy182]

Does anyone know if Kingwa is building a similar high end DAC for computer audio? My onboard audio is bitperfect capable and my motherboard outputs both via TOSlink and S/PDIF.

 

[haloxt]

The reference 3 which may be released around May (no official ETA) may be redesigned to have usb input. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/aud...20/index5.html

Don't ask why Ref 1 doesn't have usb, you can read the usb debate from page 5 on this thread for an answer.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattbr /img/forum/go_quote.gif bummer. would have loved to use it on both a disc transport and an airport express

He will add another Input for you that is switchable. He'll advise that the switch will cause a slight degradation in the SQ.

Already been around that Rodeo arena with him. You can get an Optical input, no problems.

.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Thanks for those impressions Dro. Interesting observations about warm up. I hadn't noticed because my tube stuff takes time to sound it's best so I routinely power everything up and leave it for 45 minutes (on average) before listening so I wouldn't have noticed this trait but I do understand why it would be so.

The owner of Odyssey Audio (Klaus Bunge) recommends 3 days warm up for the SS amps he makes...but I'll be darned if it isn't true. I know 3 days sounds crazy but .....that was and is the case with his amps, ridiculous as that might sound.

I'm not surprised at all by the improvements to the Compass or the Corda. I've always maintained that source is critical to a great result, that is the one truth in this hobby that hasn't changed a bit throughout the years. You'll get no argument from those using vinyl front ends (about quality directly effecting result) but for some reason you'll get all kinds of arguments in the digital realm. All of which are routinely proven false time and again...source matters no matter what format you choose to use. IMHO of course

Your observations only reinforce that.

Peete.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif The owner of Odyssey Audio (Klaus Bunge) recommends 3 days warm up for the SS amps he makes...but I'll be darned if it isn't true. I know 3 days sounds crazy but .....that was and is the case with his amps, ridiculous as that might sound.

Ye gods, three days?! I guess it would be okay to have them permanently on if they were modest power consumers. But from the looks of them I'm guessing they're not too frugal with electricity either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not surprised at all by the improvements to the Compass or the Corda. I've always maintained that source is critical to a great result, that is the one truth in this hobby that hasn't changed a bit throughout the years. You'll get no argument from those using vinyl front ends (about quality directly effecting result) but for some reason you'll get all kinds of arguments in the digital realm. All of which are routinely proven false time and again...source matters no matter what format you choose to use. IMHO of course Your observations only reinforce that. Peete.

In the past, I have sometimes been leaning towards the "all good cd players/DACS, when outputs are matched, sound the same"-doctrine. The Reference One certainly disproves that quite clearly. And I'm very glad it did too.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ye gods, three days?! I guess it would be okay to have them permanently on if they were modest power consumers. But from the looks of them I'm guessing they're not too frugal with electricity either. In the past, I have sometimes been leaning towards the "all good cd players/DACS, when outputs are matched, sound the same"-doctrine. The Reference One certainly disproves that quite clearly. And I'm very glad it did too.

I used to have them powered up 24/7 for years but the energy crunch saw electricity rates here nearly triple in the space of 1.5 years. Now I regularly power them down.

The RE1 and any other high quality DAC will quickly make a believer out of those that used to think digital source quality matters not as long as the spinner gets that info off the disc. Well there is lots more to it than just that, obvioulsy.

I did some minor surgery on the CDM12 Pro transport last night installing a Canare BNC jack (so I can use the RE1's BNC input to it's fullest extent) and while I was in there replaced the SPDIF jack with a CMC I had left over from the HK HD720 upgrades. The wire used to the stock RCA out was of dubious quality as was the AES 110 ohm jack (talk about a cheap POS) so the wiring was upgraded to silver plated copper OFC. The cheap AES jack was discarded to use that chassis hole for the BNC jack. I had to scrounge up some bolts for that jack assembly and then trim one of them to make everything fit nicely.

Sounds good thus far although I can't be certain if it's better than the great SPDIF cable I was using. I'll have to switch back a forth to know for sure. Right now though I'll leave the BNC cable in for a month or so until the RE1 gets past 1000 hours. I have close to 600 on it now.

Here's a pic of the finished job on the CDM12 Pro T.




Peete.

 

[bordins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif It gives at least some idea of what the DSP does. Although admittedly I think a more elaborate manual is called for.

If you look around, then you would see CDPs or DACs offer features for setting digtial audio processing, i.e., upsampling, oversampling, dithering (bit-depth conversion), filtering, etc. It would rather be more convenient for the user to select the settings via a remote control or the front panel buttons. Apparently, this requires additional circuits and components making the unit more expensive as well as adding some electrical noises into the unit.

Which settings sound better ? It's purely up to the listener's preference and other components in the audio system. In fact, modern DAC chips employ certain algorithms inside for "perfecting" digital audio playback. The DSP allows custom algorithms some of which can be very pricey. Check out the $$$$ filter upgrade boards of the MBS DACs. Nonetheless, which ones are "better", I don't know. My benchmark would be comparing to real musical performance.

I wish 176.4 / 384 kHz processing should be supported for HRx records playback.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did some minor surgery on the CDM12 Pro transport last night installing a Canare BNC jack (so I can use the RE1's BNC input to it's fullest extent) and while I was in there replaced the SPDIF jack with a CMC I had left over from the HK HD720 upgrades. The wire used to the stock RCA out was of dubious quality as was the AES 110 ohm jack (talk about a cheap POS) so the wiring was upgraded to silver plated copper OFC. The cheap AES jack was discarded to use that chassis hole for the BNC jack. I had to scrounge up some bolts for that jack assembly and then trim one of them to make everything fit nicely.

I already wondered about this the moment I first saw the Vanguard CDM12. Why doesn't that thing have a BNC output? But when you said you would be modding it, I presumed that was one of the first things that would be added. Nice to have that picture included, it might really help me if I ever have to perform similar surgery. Very nice work!

I wonder why Kingwa didn't include an AES/EBU connection on the Reference One. Incompatibility with the DSP-1 perhaps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bordins /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you look around, then you would see CDPs or DACs offer features for setting digtial audio processing, i.e., upsampling, oversampling, dithering (bit-depth conversion), filtering, etc. It would rather be more convenient for the user to select the settings via a remote control or the front panel buttons. Apparently, this requires additional circuits and components making the unit more expensive as well as adding some electrical noises into the unit.

I think that last reason is why you won't see remote control or panel buttons for this particular DSP in the near future. Kingwa isn't really into making compromises, sometimes to the frustration of his customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bordins /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which settings sound better ? It's purely up to the listener's preference and other components in the audio system. In fact, modern DAC chips employ certain algorithms inside for "perfecting" digital audio playback. The DSP allows custom algorithms some of which can be very pricey. Check out the $$$$ filter upgrade boards of the MBS DACs. Nonetheless, which ones are "better", I don't know. My benchmark would be comparing to real musical performance.

Actually, apart from the Phase Locked Loop system, the DSP-1 doesn't come across as too complicated. Although it would be nice to know how things like the dithering function work precisely. (I know what it does, but I'm curious to know how it does it precisely.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bordins /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wish 176.4 / 384 kHz processing should be supported for HRx records playback.

That looks really intruiging. However, it's the first time I've heard about it so it probably has a long way to go before it will become a generally accepted standard that would be incorporated by more designers.

 

[bordins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif That [HRx] looks really intruiging. However, it's the first time I've heard about it so it probably has a long way to go before it will become a generally accepted standard that would be incorporated by more designers.

Recently, I had a chance to borrow my friend's Weiss Minverva DAC and ATH-L3000. All I can say "The Minerva is the jaw-dropping DAC you can find !". It delivers plethora of details regardless of the audio formats. CDs sound superly detailed, very close to the hi-rez format, the HRx.

However, I still prefer my OMZ DAC in terms of musicality (very musical). The best DAC would be the combination of the Minerva and the OMZ, IMHO.

I wish any manufacturer can build one at a reasonable price.