[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which SC Transport has BNC? Or is it something that you have to solder in yourself? Audiomagus - high end not high priced audio products Or is above sufficient?

Hi,
I had looked at that card, but they didn't list Vista drivers so was off my list. It did look interesting. I use Vista 64 so I don't take a chance with immature drivers on my immature OS. Vista is awesome for Music though, when everything works, that is.

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[tosehee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, I had looked at that card, but they didn't list Vista drivers so was off my list. It did look interesting. I use Vista 64 so I don't take a chance with immature drivers on my immature OS. Vista is awesome for Music though, when everything works, that is. .

Thanks for the response. I thought about that too and was little hesitant. In that case, what SC transport do you recommend?

I never soldiered before, so I'd like to get something that require least amount of work.

Thanks in advance.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the response. I thought about that too and was little hesitant. In that case, what SC transport do you recommend? I never soldiered before, so I'd like to get something that require least amount of work. Thanks in advance.

Heh, obviously I would recommend the one I'm using. HT Omega Claro Halo. Although the Claro or Stryker may do fine also.

Here were my requirements:
1) Vista 64 Stable
2) BNC Connector or SPDIF Headers easily accessed for soldering
3) Ability to do SPDIF Loopback****
4) (2) SPDIF Inputs and (2) SPDIF outputs

There were more, but these were the biggies I remember. SPDIF loopback is important. You will have difficulty finding this capability on a Pro or Broadcast quality card. Studios don't use or need SPDIF Loop.

SPDIF Loop is the ability to take a COAX or Toslink feed input and turn it around or "Loop" it back out the COAX or Toslink Output. Why would you need that? I was told by some folks they don't need it. Well, let's think about it for a minute or so.

How about taking a Satelite Receiver, a CATV box, A DVD Player, a CD transport, with Digital Outs and sending it to the REF1? It helps make Multiple SPDIF inputs, at least two, available to your REF1, or Studio Speakers if they are Digital.

My speakers are digital as is the REF 1. So I need (2) SPDIF outs, 1 for the spkrs, 1 for the REF1. I bring in CATV through COAX and send it out to the Spkrs so I can monitor the News Channels while I work on the Computer. I can also listen to the Music Channels, etc. Obviously another kewl thing to do would be bring in A-GD's new CD transport here and send it out to the REF1. You need SPDIF Loopback to be able to do these functions. My ESI Juli@ card would not Loop and had to go.

Sorry for the Long post, hope this helps. I learned this all the hard way, ie it cost money for Tuition.

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[tosehee]

Thanks for the thorough response. It's more than I was hoping for.

Does the card you mentioni have the BNC connector by default, or do I need to solder it myself?

I am not familiar with loop back feature, but I am sure I will use it in the distant future as I get more accustomed t the hifi world.

Thanks again.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the thorough response. It's more than I was hoping for. Does the card you mentioni have the BNC connector by default, or do I need to solder it myself? I am not familiar with loop back feature, but I am sure I will use it in the distant future as I get more accustomed t the hifi world. Thanks again.

If you wanted to use BNC, you would have to get COAX wire, I'm using a Canare Mini RG-59 from Markertek and a BNC Bulkhead/Chassis connector and solder together. I posted a PIC of mine earlier I thought?

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[tosehee]

Sigh. I don't know how to solder it myself. I would love to give a try, but I don't want to burn $200 SC either.

Oh well, I guess there is no highend SC that has BNC out for Ref1?

p.s.: I must have missed your pic.. Sorry for double Question.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sigh. I don't know how to solder it myself. I would love to give a try, but I don't want to burn $200 SC either. Oh well, I guess there is no highend SC that has BNC out for Ref1? p.s.: I must have missed your pic.. Sorry for double Question.

Well, I wouldn't want to learn that way for sure. Maybe you could find a Local DIY guy to help you out? It's pretty easy soldering for someone who can solder on a PCB.

I looked for a BNC SC for some time. I just couldn't find one to do what I needed it to do. The setup I have now is perfect, it even has a Headphone amp built into the SC to test SQ against with Opamp sockets so I can roll Opamps. But I did have to solder on it.

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[tosehee]

Thanks. I will look into local DIY.

Thanks again.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsmith /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't think of any reason why there would be a difference in sound quality between a transport and a computer sound card that is set to bit perfect mode (except for differences in amount of jitter potentially). Both should do exactly one thing, output a digital stream of bits that are identical to the bits on the disc (or in the flac, which should be identical to the bits on a disc). If you are getting worse sound from your computer, that indicates to me one of four possibilities: 1) the flac files are not in fact identical to the disc, which could happen if some sort of digital processing was applied when the files were ripped from the disc, 2) your media player is applying digital processing to the files before outputting it to the sound card, 3) the sound card is not set to bit perfect mode, and is doing some sort of processing on the signal, or 4) the sound card is faulty. Just my 2c.

Logic dictates that a difference should not exist (given bit perfect) but every time I compare the SC/Comp vs a dedicated transport (the CDM12 Pro ) the CDM12 Pro sounds clearly better in terms of stage depth, bass retrieval, tighter midrange focus, slightly more natural high frequency response etc...I expect the CD7 T to be even more refined than the CDM12 Pro but that remains to be seen until I can actually test it in house.

Peete.

 

[punk_guy182]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Logic dictates that a difference should not exist (given bit perfect) but every time I compare the SC/Comp vs a dedicated transport (the CDM12 Pro ) the CDM12 Pro sounds clearly better in terms of stage depth, bass retrieval, tighter midrange focus, slightly more natural high frequency response etc...I expect the CD7 T to be even more refined than the CDM12 Pro but that remains to be seen until I can actually test it in house. Peete.

That is a very important remark. I think that Kingwa shiukd take rhis issue verry importantly and adress it properly. We ought to hvae a good way to reduce jitter and increase SQ of the data being output from the computer to the DAC. whether it is SPDIF, Toslink, USB or Firewire, I think Kingwa and other shoukld figure out a good way to benefit from computer audio. It is a good source because all the datra is stored on a computer and it will eventully Most of us use it now and I'd rather invest in high quaklity amps than buying a quality cd transport.replace the cd transport.

 

[gregdee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsmith /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't think of any reason why there would be a difference in sound quality between a transport and a computer sound card that is set to bit perfect mode (except for differences in amount of jitter potentially). Both should do exactly one thing, output a digital stream of bits that are identical to the bits on the disc (or in the flac, which should be identical to the bits on a disc). If you are getting worse sound from your computer, that indicates to me one of four possibilities: 1) the flac files are not in fact identical to the disc, which could happen if some sort of digital processing was applied when the files were ripped from the disc, 2) your media player is applying digital processing to the files before outputting it to the sound card, 3) the sound card is not set to bit perfect mode, and is doing some sort of processing on the signal, or 4) the sound card is faulty. Just my 2c.

thanks for your 2c

however the answer is much simpler.
there is nothing wrong with files ,simply computer cards are not a match to the good transport ,and that's all about.


greg

 

[gregdee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif That sounds odd, sounds more like Kingwa was talking about the different outputs of the CD7 there, instead of the inputs of the Reference One. Kingwa says on the Reference One page: So, from that you would conclude (as is the generally accepted view) that BNC is simply better. I haven't compared the two though. I'm using RCA to BNC at the moment. It works, they are both 75 ohm impedance and coaxial. And since it apparently is the RCA connector that causes the jitter, I figure using one less of those connectors is never a bad thing. However (I'm not exactly clear if you're asking this), you can only connect one digital source at the time. So, either RCA or BNC. Multiple inputs is possible, but you will ask Kingwa to do the necessary modifications for them (and he will tell you that that will slightly degrade sound quality).

hallo Dro

however that's true BNC has a smaller jitter ,I am not sure here is a point,really.
I had full in/out loaded set up in the past and even when compared all possibilities ,BNC was not a winner.
I have friends who are dealers ,so I had opportunity to compare digital cables the same type ,just with different connectors and results were tricky.

It really depends often of the brand and quality of cable.

for example ,watching now my "notes to not forget" let's you know what happened on my T3/P3 combination (sonic frontiers) briefly:

Digicables:
1.MIT reference
2.Transparent Ref
3.Electraglide Ref
4.Stealth Varidig

Results:
1.best on BNC,nextXLR,then RCA
2.XLR ,RCA ,BNC
3.XLR ,RCA ,i didn't have BNC
4.XLR,BNC ,RCA

I also had on hand I2se from KImber Ref range
and his sound was equal to top XLR's I might say.
It was more spacious ,but lack some musicality an meat on the mid range,
so really matter of taste

this observations might vary on different machines (all about consonance between particular chips ,recivers,and design concepts)

greg

 

[gregdee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, the main thing is which connectors are used. BNC connectors are simply better (less jitter) than the RCA connectors. For the rest it's the same coaxial signal. I don't think the Reference One even 'knows' whether the BNC or the RCA input is used, let alone where it started out, but that doesn't matter. So, if you go from RCA to BNC, that still means one inferior (RCA) connector in the signal chain and therefore (presumably) more jitter than when a BNC to BNC connection would be used.

hallo Dro
you are wrong here .
the dac knows perfectly which input had been used .
let me explain it here.

the most important is where is a master clock located?

if it is in transport unit ,dac works as a slave ( this is most common situation)
and detect what kind of signal had been sent to it.(I mean transport out here)

if dac is a clocking unit ,you have opportunity to slave transport and tact input.

2nd situation is full freedom ,but not many machines offer it .
One I know and used was DCS with master clock ,but sound was unacceptable digital to me ,so I stayed with the other one I liked more.

1st situation like yours depends on how is your cable terminated?
getting back to my cross test with digital cables on SF combo it was like that:

When mixed cable head been used from BNC to RCA or from RCA to BNC ,watching from the transport side there was different input automatically detected by processor.

BNC was only detected when connected via BNC to DAC
with RCA on T3.

greg

 

[gregdee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, the main thing is which connectors are used. BNC connectors are simply better (less jitter) than the RCA connectors. For the rest it's the same coaxial signal. I don't think the Reference One even 'knows' whether the BNC or the RCA input is used, let alone where it started out, but that doesn't matter. So, if you go from RCA to BNC, that still means one inferior (RCA) connector in the signal chain and therefore (presumably) more jitter than when a BNC to BNC connection would be used.

here you are right

even if you feed your dac by BNC input ,and your dac is forced to say that's the input ,the connection is not really BNC .

Proof - test done on Stilth VAridig had shown clearly difference .
MIX CABLE = RCA CABLE = same sound
FULL BNC = different sound = in his case better


greg

 

[gregdee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim3320070 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for that. I'm not sure it matters as the DSP processing, according to the website, effectively eliminates jitter, regardless of source. Kingwa states that low end transports sound almost the same as high end, low jitter transports due to the DSP.

hallo

it sounds strange for me to be honest.
when I used DCS ,on DSP mode there was always difference between good transport (CEC 1 in this case ,which replaced T3/P3 ,to match DCS) and chipper machines.
For Example CEC 2 sounded much bellow 1 ,and my sonyDVP9K multiformat player which had been attached to the dac to enjoy quality sound from the movies even worse.Dinner cost dvd for instance ,plated by DCS was a nightmare ,so I do not understand your enthusiasm.


greg