Audio-Gd R-28 impressions thread

[FredA]

Hey guys
Looking for some end game dac and amp. Then found out about r2r nos and stuff 2 days ago. This r28 seems to be like the best value for money. Not cheap but not too expensive. I can sell my current source and amp to justify the purchase after if this is good. I want to make my lcd 3 stax 407 and grado gh2 sound better than what I use now. Is this r28 will be huge improvement? Looking at inside of this device compare to some other device over 2000 bucks audio gd seem to put a lot of high quality parts inside a case than other designs. Not sure good or bad but seem to get moneys worth hardware wise.

Currently my set up don't get much bass on the lcd 3. The nx4 dsd bass boost have some extra bass on the lcd3 but sounds conjested. Going through the little dot iii make it sound a bit bigger stage. Everything sounds pretty good but I wonder if things can get better with a big dac and amp like this. Also I want to try run the lcd3 balanced.

So this one is 1038 bucks usd plus shipping is that the cheapest price?

Locally there is Audio gd 10.32 for sale for 900 usd equivalent. Is that one sound close or better than this r28? I do find all my music sound digital vs real life. I saw a metrum onyx I think it's a dac about 2000 Canadian. Inside looks kind empty. So many choices for audio device.

The r-28 is more configurable and slightly more resolved if i rely on what you get with the r-7 and r-11. I suppose you are talking about the reference 10.32 and not the nfb10.32.The reference 10.32 would be similar to the old master-7, but not quite as good. The master-7 is mellower but not so much so with the latest firmware. With a great i2s transport, it can sound very very well, especially with the latest firmware. Just through usb, the r-28 should sound better. Imaging should be better with the r-28 whatever you do. The amp section of the ref10.32 is similar to the former master-9, so it is more neutral and powerful than that of the r-28. So 900usd is not a bad deal.

 

[Tostitostelli]

I was saving up for the NFB 28. Now im confused, which should i get?

 

[gLer]

I was saving up for the NFB 28. Now im confused, which should i get?

Have you heard an R2R ladder dac before? Heard a NOS dac before? And what are you looking for from your system?

 

[Tostitostelli]

i havent heard a ladder Dac or NOS Dac before. Im coming from a JDS Element, and looking to go balanced. Will be using either the R28 or NFB28 , with the Lcd2 classic and Ether C Flow. What im looking for in my system is low distortion, a great balanced headphone amp(looks like the R28 might be behind the NFB28 in that department?) , rca output in the back. im sorry if i cant describe it well enough, im still relatively new. I guess you could say im looking to go from the single-ended Element to "endgame" dac+amp balanced combo. even tho there isnt such a thing as endgame in the audio world i've learned.

 

[maellen]

Currawong review is up

 

[gLer]

i havent heard a ladder Dac or NOS Dac before. Im coming from a JDS Element, and looking to go balanced. Will be using either the R28 or NFB28 , with the Lcd2 classic and Ether C Flow. What im looking for in my system is low distortion, a great balanced headphone amp(looks like the R28 might be behind the NFB28 in that department?) , rca output in the back. im sorry if i cant describe it well enough, im still relatively new. I guess you could say im looking to go from the single-ended Element to "endgame" dac+amp balanced combo. even tho there isnt such a thing as endgame in the audio world i've learned.

The amp section in the NFB-28 and R-28 is identical, both essentially an NFB-1. My own listening tests between the R-28 and NFB-1 confirm there is zero difference between amps.

The dacs of the R-28 and NFB-28 is where you'll find the biggest differences. the NFB-28 uses delta sigma ESS Sabre dac chips, while the R-28 has a discrete R2R ladder dac with both OS and NOS capabilities. In my opinion, the R-28 provides a smoother, more analog and more musical sound than the ESS dacs I've heard in the past, but it's a fine line and all a matter of taste. The ESS has its own advantages, like multiple filters. Also the NFB-28 comes in two flavours (NFB-28.28 and NFB-28.38). If you decide on the NFB-28 and budget allows, definitely opt for the NFB-28.38.

I suggest you read up on the differences between dacs and NOS/OS, and maybe try listen to a few, before you make your 'endgame' decision. Either way, both NFB-28 and R-28 are a significant upgrade over the JDS Element.

Edit: the R-28 amp in fact has one advantage over the NFB-28: true gain. The NFB-28 hasow and high gain, but high gain simply steepens the volume curve over low gain (from 99 steps to 63 steps). The R-28 has true gain, so high gain is in order of 10dB difference to low gain (with the same 99 steps), and F mode is high gain with 63 steps.

 

[Tostitostelli]

The amp section in the NFB-28 and R-28 is identical, both essentially an NFB-1. My own listening tests between the R-28 and NFB-1 confirm there is zero difference between amps.

The dacs of the R-28 and NFB-28 is where you'll find the biggest differences. the NFB-28 uses delta sigma ESS Sabre dac chips, while the R-28 has a discrete R2R ladder dac with both OS and NOS capabilities. In my opinion, the R-28 provides a smoother, more analog and more musical sound than the ESS dacs I've heard in the past, but it's a fine line and all a matter of taste. The ESS has its own advantages, like multiple filters. Also the NFB-28 comes in two flavours (NFB-28.28 and NFB-28.38). If you decide on the NFB-28 and budget allows, definitely opt for the NFB-28.38.

I suggest you read up on the differences between dacs and NOS/OS, and maybe try listen to a few, before you make your 'endgame' decision. Either way, both NFB-28 and R-28 are a significant upgrade over the JDS Element.

Edit: the R-28 amp in fact has one advantage over the NFB-28: true gain. The NFB-28 hasow and high gain, but high gain simply steepens the volume curve over low gain (from 99 steps to 63 steps). The R-28 has true gain, so high gain is in order of 10dB difference to low gain (with the same 99 steps), and F mode is high gain with 63 steps.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply gLer! it has certainly cleared some things up for me . Im still pretty much 50/50 on them tho, so ill take your advice , and see if i can demo them somewhere.

 

[gLer]

Currawong review is up

@Currawong absolutely nailed that review! Well worth a watch, and matches my findings almost to a tee.

 

[gLer]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply gLer! it has certainly cleared some things up for me . Im still pretty much 50/50 on them tho, so ill take your advice , and see if i can demo them somewhere.

Only a pleasure. I suggest you watch @Currawong's review linked above, as he goes into some detail about the difference between Delta Sigma and R2R ladder dac sound.

 

[alphanumerix1]

I own a nfb1 amp would it make more sense to sell that and get a r28 or just get a r1 and have a huge stack. Would that outperform the r28 with individual power supplies etc etc

 

[Heavyboxer]

I own a nfb1 amp would it make more sense to get sell that and get a r28 or just get a r1 and have a huge stack. Would that outperform the r28 with individual power supplies etc etc

Note that the R28 is huge by itself. It's more a question of it you want to stack higher or wider.

 

[alphanumerix1]

Note that the R28 is huge by itself. It's more a question of it you want to stack higher or wider.

Stacking aside can i expect the same or slighty better performance?

 

[Currawong]

I just had a thought that the answer to deciding between getting the separate components and the R28 is whether or not you'd use ACSS (I assume yes if getting the stack) and whether you'd want to use other outputs of the DAC at the same time. I forgot to check if the R28 can output via ACSS and XLR at the same time. The R2R 7 could not (so I assume the R1 can't either) but the R28 is a DAC/amp.

 

[alphanumerix1]

I just had a thought that the answer to deciding between getting the separate components and the R28 is whether or not you'd use ACSS (I assume yes if getting the stack) and whether you'd want to use other outputs of the DAC at the same time. I forgot to check if the R28 can output via ACSS and XLR at the same time. The R2R 7 could not (so I assume the R1 can't either) but the R28 is a DAC/amp.

Good point, but from a financial train of thought it would make sense just to purchase the r1 I guess.

I'd be interested if you can use multiple outputs though.

 

[gLer]

Good point, but from a financial train of thought it would make sense just to purchase the r1 I guess.

I'd be interested if you can use multiple outputs though.

In terms of sound quality I'd say you'd be very hard pressed to notice a difference between the stack and the R-28. From a logistical point of view, you'll need ACSS cables, probably two decent power cords instead of one, but then have a slightly larger selection of inputs/outputs. Also the R-28 has true low/high gain while the NFB-1 does not, if that makes a difference to you. Of course the R-1 has selectable NOS/OS modes from the front panel, which is an advantage over the R-28's jumper method.

Financially, yes, it probably makes sense to just get the R-1, especially if you're happy with the NFB-1, and you're safe in the knowledge you're not sacrificing any SQ either way.