[Wilddude]

My transport is a mac-mini either via USB or optical. I think the optical is a bit better with noise. I have been communicating with Audio-GD and they keep emphasising the value of balanced output. However I am sure I will want to experiment with trying with home speaker set up (NAD T785 AV amplifier going to Kef LS50s + Rel T3 subwoofer) which would require RCA outputs so not balanced (at least that is the gist of what I understand from the emails). I wonder if without balanced advantages if there difference between would be less as well?

 

[gLer]

The r-28 is more versatile. Also it really depends on whether you prefer prefer the r2r or the delta-sigma sound. But as i often mention, if you can do a software conversion to dsd on the fly, the audio-gd r2r dacs will sound like delta-sigmas. And you have 3 nos modes to choose from on top of that.

That’s interesting - can you tell us more about DSD conversion on the fly and why this would make a difference to the sound?

 

[PopZeus]

If balanced outs are a non-starter, what about the R2R 2? You can get any number of amps to pair along with it.

 

[gLer]

You will get better dynamics, sharper attacks. A better soundstage as well. But you most likely will need a very good transport to extract the best out of it. The beauty of the r2r 11 is it sound amazing through the on-board usb input. The signal path is not as direct with the dacs with a dsp board. So you need a source with very low noise level and jitter level to maximize sound quality. At least, that is the case with the r2r 7. The r2r-1 and r-28 should be somewhere in between.

What do you consider a good transport that minimizes noise and jitter? Is it advisable to get a USB to I2S convertor and use the I2S input instead of USB? I read somewhere that the Amanero 384 Combo module is in fact a USB to I2S/DSD converter in itself - not sure how true that is though or how Kingwa has implemented it in his recent dacs.

 

[capetownwatches]

What do you consider a good transport that minimizes noise and jitter? Is it advisable to get a USB to I2S convertor and use the I2S input instead of USB? I read somewhere that the Amanero 384 Combo module is in fact a USB to I2S/DSD converter in itself - not sure how true that is though or how Kingwa has implemented it in his recent dacs.

Amanero 384 is a TOTL USB interface. Properly implemented (as it is in the R2R11 and most other AGD gear) there would be nothing to be gained by adding a further interface/converter IMHO.

Keep It Simple S......

 

[gLer]

Amanero 384 is a TOTL USB interface. Properly implemented (as it is in the R2R11 and most other AGD gear) there would be nothing to be gained by adding a further interface/converter IMHO.

Keep It Simple S......

So I take it he’s not using this part then:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...l-interface-usb-384khz-to-i2s-dsd-p-7403.html

That would also explain how the ladder dacs process native DSD - via the Amanero card. Although, since the R-28 has a separate I2S input, I guess it wouldn’t make sense to have two I2S inputs, even if one is converted, unless that’s a design decision to maximize signal purity.

Just asking - I couldn’t get a straight answer from Kingwa on this. Maybe @Currawong could shed some light on it.

Edit: this is also the only card listed on http://amanero.com

 

[Wilddude]

If balanced outs are a non-starter, what about the R2R 2? You can get any number of amps to pair along with it.

For use with NAD T785 which only has RCA input
Kingwa wrote;
"R2R1 and R2R 2 with RCA output had same level" which I think means that the same level of sound quality so my thoughts are that for the extra $65 dollars better to get balanced option in case I upgrade later.. but then for $238 - I get preamp. Which is how I ended up wondering if 3X the cost of the R2R11 would really be that much better. I generally am an optimiser (rather than a satisfier) so perhaps am better off buying more expensive option rather than later wishing I had gone for the better sounding DAC/preamplifier/headphone amplifier.

 

[capetownwatches]

So I take it he’s not using this part then:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...l-interface-usb-384khz-to-i2s-dsd-p-7403.html

That would also explain how the ladder dacs process native DSD - via the Amanero card. Although, since the R-28 has a separate I2S input, I guess it wouldn’t make sense to have two I2S inputs, even if one is converted, unless that’s a design decision to maximize signal purity.

Just asking - I couldn’t get a straight answer from Kingwa on this. Maybe @Currawong could shed some light on it.

This:

 

[gLer]

This:

That looks more familiar indeed. Where did you find this?

 

[capetownwatches]

That looks more familiar indeed. Where did you find this?

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/Amanero/AmaneroEN.htm

 

[gLer]

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/Amanero/AmaneroEN.htm

Seems I was right - it does convert USB to I2S. See here:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...l-interface-usb-384khz-to-i2sdsd-p-10134.html

Also direct from your link:

Output Format :
I2S 32bit or DSD64,DSD128 (Native mode and DOP mode) - On Windows DSD256,DSD512 too

 

[FredA]

What do you consider a good transport that minimizes noise and jitter? Is it advisable to get a USB to I2S convertor and use the I2S input instead of USB? I read somewhere that the Amanero 384 Combo module is in fact a USB to I2S/DSD converter in itself - not sure how true that is though or how Kingwa has implemented it in his recent dacs.

Perhaps the Eitr can do it using a decent digital cable. Or the Singxer su-1 using i2s but then galvanic isolation may have to be added for best perfo.

The general ideas are:

1. You need to isolate from the pc, so galvanic isolation is a key feature. Ideally, you should plug your pc away from the audio gears to avoid contamination of the ac line but if you do so, you need galvanic isolation to avoid a ground loop, assuming usb or i2s is used. With spdif, the groud loop is not possible because of the output or input transfos that are normally used on this type of connection. Another possibility is to take the pc out of the equation.

2. Jitter can only be reduced to some extent by the reclocking circuit. The more accurate your dac is, the more impact jitter will have. With a very accurate dac like the r2r 7, jitter has a significant impact on sound. Sound vary with power quality quite siginificantly when conditioning is not done.

All this is more relevant to the r2r 7 than to the r2r 1/2.

Still, you may be satisfied with the amanero. It's very good.

 

[gLer]

Perhaps the Eitr can do it using a decent digital cable. Or the Singxer su-1 using i2s but then galvanic isolation may have to be added for best perfo.

The general ideas are:

1. You need to isolate from the pc, so galvanic isolation is a key feature. Ideally, you should plug your pc away from the audio gears to avoid contamination of the ac line but if you do so, you need galvanic isolation to avoid a ground loop, assuming usb or i2s is used. With spdif, the groud loop is not possible because of the output or input transfos that are normally used on this type of connection. Another possibility is to take the pc out of the equation.

2. Jitter can only be reduced to some extent by the reclocking circuit. The more accurate your dac is, the more impact jitter will have. With a very accurate dac like the r2r 7, jitter has a significant impact on sound. Sound vary with power quality quite siginificantly when conditioning is not done.

All this is more relevant to the r2r 7 than to the r2r 1/2.

Still, you may be satisfied with the amanero. It's very good.

The only issue with the Eitr is that you lose native DSD support. I use an ifi iSilencer 3 that reduces USB power supply noise by up to 40dB, reduces jitter and rebalances the USB signal - all before it gets to the Amanero input, which is then converted internally to I2S (32-bit PCM) and DSD.

I reckon if my signal is still noisy after that there’s a bigger problem somewhere

 

[FredA]

That’s interesting - can you tell us more about DSD conversion on the fly and why this would make a difference to the sound?

Because in my understanding, dsd is played back the way a delta-sigma dac would do it. The switching frequency is increased to that of the dsd stream on the dac boards. In fact, the audio-gd r2r dacs are like 2-in-one dacs. If they supported on the fly conversion on the internal dsp, you would not even consider buying a delta-sigma dac because you would litterally have one. Many sw like audirvana on Mac allows doing this conversion.

 

[gLer]

Because in my understanding, dsd is played back the way a delta-sigma dac would do it. The switching frequency is increased to that of the dsd stream on the dac boards. In fact, the audio-gd r2r dacs are like 2-in-one dacs. If they supported on the fly conversion on the internal dsp, you would not even consider buying a delta-sigma dac because you would litterally have one. Many sw like audirvana on Mac allows doing this conversion.

Ah so you mean DSD to PCM conversion on the fly? That way the R2R is getting a PCM stream which it plays back natively.

Since the R-28 has a discrete DSD playback chip on the Amanero board, is software conversion even necessary?