[FredA]

Ah so you mean DSD to PCM conversion on the fly? That way the R2R is getting a PCM stream which it plays back natively.

Since the R-28 has a discrete DSD playback chip on the Amanero board, is software conversion even necessary?

No, the opposite. The audio-gd dac do no conversion as opposed to a Sabre dac that converts pcm to dsd. If Kingwa offered optional on-dac conversion to dsd, it would be like having both a delta-sigma dac and a r2r dac.

 

[gLer]

No, the opposite. The audio-gd dac do no conversion as opposed to a Sabre dac that converts pcm to dsd. If Kingwa offered optional on-dac conversion to dsd, like Sabre dacs do. it would be like having both a delta-sigma dac and a r2r dac.

Don’t mean to be difficult but I think you may have this confused. An R2R ladder dac (multibit) can’t natively play DSD (1-bit) files. So the AGD R2R dacs have a native DSD decoder on the Amanero board.

Ladder/multibit dacs natively support PCM, so if you convert DSD to PCM the ladder dac is getting a native PCM signal. That’s why PCM typically sounds better on a ladder dac than a (previously converted) DSD.

This is the same reason the Holo Cyan DSD version does not actually have discrete ladder resistors, but rather a native DSD decoder, while the Holo Cyan PCM version is a discrete ladder dac like the R-28.

 

[FredA]

Don’t mean to be difficult but I think you may have this confused. An R2R ladder dac (multibit) can’t natively play DSD (1-bit) files. So the AGD R2R dacs have a native DSD decoder on the Amanero board.

Ladder/multibit dacs natively support PCM, so if you convert DSD to PCM the ladder dac is getting a native PCM signal. That’s why PCM typically sounds better on a ladder dac than a (previously converted) DSD.

This is the same reason the Holo Cyan DSD version does not actually have discrete ladder resistors, but rather a native DSD decoder, while the Holo Cyan PCM version is a discrete ladder dac like the R-28.

No. Not true. The r2r boards (da-8 and da-7) can play dsd natively.

 

[dfarina]

Could be a terrific all in one unit,looking forward to some feedback and reviews.If it sounds as good as its specs I will strongly consider the purchase.

 

[thebkt]

What do you consider a good transport that minimizes noise and jitter? Is it advisable to get a USB to I2S convertor and use the I2S input instead of USB? I read somewhere that the Amanero 384 Combo module is in fact a USB to I2S/DSD converter in itself - not sure how true that is though or how Kingwa has implemented it in his recent dacs.

I have an R2R-1 with the USB Isolator as well as an Eitr. I heard a noticeable jump in quality when using the Eitr in tandem with my Mimby. On the other hand, I hear no difference in quality at all between the Eitr and USB input with the R2R-1.

I can't speak for the stock Amanero interface (without USB Isolator), but with the upgrade I absolutely wouldn't spend the money on an Eitr or other signal cleaner.

 

[FredA]

Don’t mean to be difficult but I think you may have this confused. An R2R ladder dac (multibit) can’t natively play DSD (1-bit) files. So the AGD R2R dacs have a native DSD decoder on the Amanero board.

Ladder/multibit dacs natively support PCM, so if you convert DSD to PCM the ladder dac is getting a native PCM signal. That’s why PCM typically sounds better on a ladder dac than a (previously converted) DSD.

This is the same reason the Holo Cyan DSD version does not actually have discrete ladder resistors, but rather a native DSD decoder, while the Holo Cyan PCM version is a discrete ladder dac like the R-28.

In fact, a dsd dac is basicallly just playing pulses at a very high frequency. Then these get low-passed filtered. It's possible to switch the ladder fast enough to play pulses and replicate what the delta-sigma chips do. The latest delta-sigma play pulses with different heights; that can be done with the ladder as well. A delta-sigma chip is more complex as it has to convert pcm to dsd.

 

[gLer]

In fact, a dsd dac is basicallly just playing pulses at a very high frequency. Then these get low-passed filtered. It's possible to switch the ladder fast enough to play pulses and replicate what the delta-sigma chips do. The latest delta-sigma play pulses with different heights; that can be done with the ladder as well. A delta-sigma chip is more complex as it has to convert pcm to dsd.

And here I thought a ladder dac was the more complex and expensive option, which is why you see so few good ones on the market (and why people go crazy when they’re made affordable and accessible like the R2R-11). But admittedly my knowledge of all this dac technology is not very advanced, so I think I’m just going to go with the old adage: if it sounds great, it is great

 

[J Mirra]

I do not own or heard the HD600 but to add about the mids on the R2R 11, my T1.1 used to have a harsh tone every now and again based on recordings on other gear but now with the R2R 11 they are impeccable.

I wait for the recording to hand me that harshness I have heard many times before but no the vocals and instruments in that frequency band are really nice and the highs are just right so clear but never fatiguing on high gain.

I might suggest changing the high / low gain switch to see if that helps any.

 

[FredA]

And here I thought a ladder dac was the more complex and expensive option, which is why you see so few good ones on the market (and why people go crazy when they’re made affordable and accessible like the R2R-11). But admittedly my knowledge of all this dac technology is not very advanced, so I think I’m just going to go with the old adage: if it sounds great, it is great

Yes it is indeed.

 

[Currawong]

No, the opposite. The audio-gd dac do no conversion as opposed to a Sabre dac that converts pcm to dsd. If Kingwa offered optional on-dac conversion to dsd, it would be like having both a delta-sigma dac and a r2r dac.

I wouldn't describe an SD DAC as one that converts PCM to DSD. DSD is an entire digital music encapsulation format.

 

[FredA]

I wouldn't describe an SD DAC as one that converts PCM to DSD. DSD is an entire digital music encapsulation format.

i just meant the audio-gd dacs with discrete ladder can do both dsd and pcm natively as opposed to pretty much everything else on the market, as far as i know. These are probably some other dacs like this out there though. The delta-sigma chips can't do pcm natively so they convert it to dsd.

 

[FredA]

Well the Denafrips terminator does it as well. On a separate ladder. Audio-gd does it on the same one i would assume. Could be wrong.

 

[gLer]

Well the Denafrips terminator does it as well. On a separate ladder. Audio-gd does it on the same one i would assume. Could be wrong.

@Currawong it would be great if you can discuss this issue of how and where the R-28 does its ‘native’ DSD and PCM decoding and playback when you do your R-28 review (or preview). Really looking forward to that one! Any idea when you’re getting one?

 

[capetownwatches]

@Currawong it would be great if you can discuss this issue of how and where the R-28 does its ‘native’ DSD and PCM decoding and playback when you do your R-28 review (or preview). Really looking forward to that one! Any idea when you’re getting one?

+1

It seems to me that AGD is really at the forefront of this type of DAC design and implementation.
Don't for a moment underestimate what Kingwa has done with the R2R11.

Their top of the range DACs are legitimately state of the art as well.

 

[Currawong]

@Currawong it would be great if you can discuss this issue of how and where the R-28 does its ‘native’ DSD and PCM decoding and playback when you do your R-28 review (or preview). Really looking forward to that one! Any idea when you’re getting one?

As soon as the current batch gets off the testing rack. I'll ask Kingwa about DSD decoding.