[i019791]

   
After emailing back-n-forth with Kingwa, I went with the NFB-10.33 over the NFB-28. While I have heard the WM in the past and enjoyed it, I never heard the ES.
There was also the price difference (which I am on a budget). Add in the fact that I didn't need the analog input stage, but I am running it as a balanced pre-amp out to dual active cross over-amps, the 10.33 had the dual XLR output stage.
 
I know many of you are fans of the ES dac over the WM, but I think I made the right choice. Perhaps when I get some more money I will get an ES dac as well. Would be nice if the NFB-28/10.33 configuration had a swap-able dac like the Compass.
 
Thanks again for everyone's help and input.
 
Regards...

 
Theonly  issue with the 10.33 is that if you decide to change your dac you will have to change the amp too

 

[Prohobo]

   
Theonly  issue with the 10.33 is that if you decide to change your dac you will have to change the amp too

 
Why would I have to change my AMPs?
 
I am using the 10.33 as a pre-amp into my two existing amps. I wouldn't have to change my amps.
 
My intention was to get a DAC that could serve as a headphone and and also a preamp for my speakers. I thought, as Kingwa confirmed that both the NFB-28 or 10.33 could serve that purpose. The NFB-28 I would have to run one amp unbalanced, while the other balanced, since it only has one set of XLR outs, but it would still work.
 
Perhaps I am not following you.

 

[i019791]

   
Why would I have to change my AMPs?
 
I am using the 10.33 as a pre-amp into my two existing amps. I wouldn't have to change my amps.
 
My intention was to get a DAC that could serve as a headphone and and also a preamp for my speakers. I thought, as Kingwa confirmed that both the NFB-28 or 10.33 could serve that purpose. The NFB-28 I would have to run one amp unbalanced, while the other balanced, since it only has one set of XLR outs, but it would still work.
 
Perhaps I am not following you.

 
The only source that can feed the 10.33 internal amp is the internal dac of 10.33. You cannot use the amp part of 10.33 with other dacs. NFB-28 does not have this (future) issue.

 

[Prohobo]

   
The only source that can feed the 10.33 internal amp is the internal dac of 10.33. You cannot use the amp part of 10.33 with other dacs. NFB-28 does not have this (future) issue.

 
I think I maybe stupid, because I am not getting your point. Please bare with me.
 
I didn't need analog input since all my music is digital (FLAC, MP3, SPOTIFY, etc.) - so I only needed a digital input. I certainly understand if I had analog music (albums or something like that) and wanted to use the NFB-28/10.33 as a pre/amp and headphone amp for my analog music. However, that is not my situation. 
 
I also can't see why I would want to use an external DAC and then purchase the NFB-28 to use solely as a head-phone amp. Why would I not purchase just a headphone amp and just skip the internal DAC if that were the case.
 
Try as I might, I still can't find the logic or reasoning in you point as per my needs. Perhaps I am just not getting it and for that I apologize. I admit I am a noob at this stuff.

 

[BournePerfect]

The 10.33 doesn't have analog inputs, at least the photos don't show any. Therefore you can't use it as a standalone amp with other dacs-only as an all in one.
 
-Daniel

 

[Prohobo]

  The 10.33 doesn't have analog inputs, at least the photos don't show any. Therefore you can't use it as a standalone amp with other dacs-only as an all in one.
 
-Daniel

 
Thanks - as I do realize and have acknowledged that truth, I still don't see the point...hence my previous post.
 
"I didn't need analog input since all my music is digital (FLAC, MP3, SPOTIFY, etc.) - so I only needed a digital input. I certainly understand if I had analog music (albums or something like that) and wanted to use the NFB-28/10.33 as a pre/amp and headphone amp for my analog music. However, that is not my situation. 
 
I also can't see why I would want to use an external DAC and then purchase the NFB-28 to use solely as a head-phone amp. Why would I not purchase just a headphone amp and just skip the internal DAC if that were the case."
 
I think the problem is I don't see the logic in purchasing the NFB-28 for the analog inputs for use with an external DAC. The logic would indicate that you believe the external DAC source is superior, if you wish to by-pass the internal DAC and use the analog input rather than digital input. If that is the case, then I would think one would wish to purchase only a head-phone amp and purchase an external DAC of their liking.
 
Since I don't have any analog music and I don't intend on buying an external DAC, analog input is superfluous and I don't see the need or logic. Again, I may not be getting your point and admit to my novice ways. So please correct my reasoning if I am wrong and perhaps I should call Kingwa and change my order.
 
Sorry and don't mean to cause any confusion, as it might be just me that is confused

 

[i019791]

You wrote above that if you get some more money you may get an ES dac. Will you have a headphone amp to connect this new dac then ?

 

[Prohobo]

  You wrote above that if you get some more money you may get an ES dac. Will you have an amp to connect this new dac then ?

 
I see the problem that I caused. What I meant to say is perhaps I would purchase the NFB-28 or even REF 10 in the future and replace this one. Sorry for all the confusion, which is my fault.  I think I now understand why I drummed up so much confusion.
 
sorry

 

[daerron]

Those analog inputs are handy for example if you want to connect something like a turntable with an external phono stage so you can listen to your turntable via your headphones. Your DAC/amp automatically becomes a handy pre-amplifier in that case. The NFB-28 is an exceptionally versatile unit for its price.

 

[customNuts]

   
I still like the v800/v200 over NFB28 balanced.  Thing is even with SE the NFB28 has more than enough power to decently drive either the LCD3 or the HD800.  Moving to balanced cable has some slight improvement but I cannot be sure if the improvement is from the balancing or from the "better" wires in the Norse Reign24 Balanced cable.    I don't have the SE version nor a 4pin XLR to 6.35 in hand to use this for the Violectric.  But the improvement is not that significant to change my personal ranking.  As a matter of fact the Violectric stack is also NOT materially better, and their sound sig is very similar.  It is just a tad more refined and musical.
 
Of course, when taking into account the relative price of these combo, I would take the NFB28.

 
That's pretty impressive but as you said, the violetric stack is worth a lot more. I always thought the nfb-10 (hence nfb 28 etc) where amazing units for the money.So many features and stellar SQ with fully balanced architecture for well under $1000. Awesome.

 

[kkcc]

Those analog inputs are handy for example if you want to connect something like a turntable with an external phono stage so you can listen to your turntable via your headphones. Your DAC/amp automatically becomes a handy pre-amplifier in that case. The NFB-28 is an exceptionally versatile unit for its price.

Yes the NFB28 is extremely versatile and with my experience comparing the very well regarded violectric v200/v800, you are getting a top mid-fi balanced dac, a top mid-fi balanced amp, and a top mid-fi fully balanced dacamp for just $680. I think unless once plans to go up to at least 3.5 or 4k (plus desktop real estate) you really won't notice material improvement.

Similarly if you don't plan to use it as a standalone headphone amp or preamp, the 10ES2 (ess9018) or 10.33 (dual wm8741) offers even more value.

 

[customNuts]

Yes the NFB28 is extremely versatile and with my experience comparing the very well regarded violectric v200/v800, you are getting a top mid-fi balanced dac, a top mid-fi balanced amp, and a top mid-fi fully balanced dacamp for just $680. I think unless once plans to go up to at least 3.5 or 4k (plus desktop real estate) you really won't notice material improvement.

Similarly if you don't plan to use it as a standalone headphone amp or preamp, the 10ES2 (ess9018) or 10.33 (dual wm8741) offers even more value.

 
+1, however you certainly don't need to go to $3.5-4k to notice material improvement. I recently bought the Yulong DA8 which does everything the 28 does except analogue inputs and it is absolutely light years away from the nfb-10 I owned. In fact even my Yulong D18 left the dac for dead. Still great units but technology has improved so much recently and seriously modern, high end DAC's with performance in the true hi-end echelon can be bought now for realistic prices. Gone are the days of having to pay astronomical $$ for a true hi-end DAC - thank god! 
Regardless the nfb10/28 etc is still my highest recommendation for an all in one balanced Dac/amp for those on a budget. Fantastic value.

 

[kkcc]

+1, however you certainly don't need to go to $3.5-4k to notice material improvement. I recently bought the Yulong DA8 which does everything the 28 does except analogue inputs and it is absolutely light years away from the nfb-10 I owned. In fact even my Yulong D18 left the dac for dead. Still great units but technology has improved so much recently and seriously modern, high end DAC's with performance in the true hi-end echelon can be bought now for realistic prices. Gone are the days of having to pay astronomical $$ for a true hi-end DAC - thank god! 
Regardless the nfb10/28 etc is still my highest recommendation for an all in one balanced Dac/amp for those on a budget. Fantastic value.

Yup DA8 is also great esp with DSD playback capability. With the HD800 tho I definitely prefer the nfb28. Would love to get a bit more time with it and to try with my lcd3.

 

[customNuts]

Yup DA8 is also great esp with DSD playback capability. With the HD800 tho I definitely prefer the nfb28. Would love to get a bit more time with it and to try with my lcd3.

 
Thats really interesting cause I've owned the nfb-10 & DA8 but not the 28. So do you feel the 28 is actually approaching the DA8? This is dangerous - your going to make me buy one! I'm looking for an excuse. I just didn't want a down grade for no reason, but if it is a side grade of sorts, then I'm very interested. Could you give a brief comparison between the DA8 & 28? I would be very thankful!

 

[kkcc]

   
Thats really interesting cause I've owned the nfb-10 & DA8 but not the 28. So do you feel the 28 is actually approaching the DA8? This is dangerous - your going to make me buy one! I'm looking for an excuse. I just didn't want a down grade for no reason, but if it is a side grade of sorts, then I'm very interested. Could you give a brief comparison between the DA8 & 28? I would be very thankful!

 
The "comparison" was on 2 different HD800 and not in the same setting so take it with pinches of salt.  My impression is that with DA8 the HD800 sounded overall too bright and lacks body/note weight in sub-bass/midbass.  Mids are more distanced and also a bit glaring.  Treble is actually the best part that is very refined and didn't have any sibilance.  However I need a bit more substance and smoothness on my HD800 in the mids and bass and hence I'd prefer the NFB28 in this case.  As mentioned I would really want to bring my LCD3 to try it again, I suspect it would be a very good pair, maybe even better with an LCD2.
 
Which version of the NFB-10 do you own?  and what headphone you're pairing the DA8 with?