[SidiousX]

   
......I recently bought the Yulong DA8 which does everything the 28 does except analogue inputs and it is absolutely light years away from the nfb-10 I owned. In fact even my Yulong D18 left the dac for dead.....

 
Quote:

   
Which version of the NFB-10 do you own?  and what headphone you're pairing the DA8 with?

 
Thea'ts the key question, which NFB-10. This construction evolved by years into completely different implemetation of DAC, than it was at the start. Even tho i have no doubt Youlong DA8 must be excellent DAC, its excellent for USD 1200, either NFB-10ES2/3 or NFB28, are respectively 580, 630,680+sh. Eitherway for my ears NFB-28 sound even different (better), than more recent project like NFB-1.32, not mentioned old clasiccal NFB-10 DAC.

 

[tim3320070]

   
Thea'ts the key question, which NFB-10. This construction evolved by years into completely different implemetation of DAC, than it was at the start. Even tho i have no doubt Youlong DA8 must be excellent DAC, its excellent for USD 1200, either NFB-10ES2/3 or NFB28, are respectively 580, 630,680+sh. Eitherway for my ears NFB-28 sound even different (better), than more recent project like NFB-1.32, not mentioned old clasiccal NFB-10 DAC.

 
You mean NFB-11.32 not the 1.32?

 

[SidiousX]

No i meant 1.32, 11.32 is completely different class and can not be compare with much more expensive DAC's. To avoid any misunderstanding, concerning sound differencies/quality I am not talking about headphone implementation,  I am talking about DAC per-se implementation with signal fed by USB-32.

 

[customNuts]

   
Thea'ts the key question, which NFB-10. This construction evolved by years into completely different implemetation of DAC, than it was at the start. Even tho i have no doubt Youlong DA8 must be excellent DAC, its excellent for USD 1200, either NFB-10ES2/3 or NFB28, are respectively 580, 630,680+sh. Eitherway for my ears NFB-28 sound even different (better), than more recent project like NFB-1.32, not mentioned old clasiccal NFB-10 DAC.

Not entirely true. The reason I didn't jump on the nfb-28 was due to the advice from Kingwa himself. I owned the second nfb-10 so definitely one of the earlier ones. Kingwa's advice was that they were essentially the same unit with different Dac chip (which in his words made very little difference) a much better usb, larger transformer & analogue inputs. He said that unless the improved usb was very important to me then don't buy it to expect a noticeably different unit.  Essentially the exact same unit with a couple of tweaks. 
Now since I have sold my nfb-10 and knowing those few tweaks would elevate it a couple steps from an already impressive sound quality (for the price) - thats pretty good in my book.  

 

[customNuts]

   
The "comparison" was on 2 different HD800 and not in the same setting so take it with pinches of salt.  My impression is that with DA8 the HD800 sounded overall too bright and lacks body/note weight in sub-bass/midbass.  Mids are more distanced and also a bit glaring.  Treble is actually the best part that is very refined and didn't have any sibilance.  However I need a bit more substance and smoothness on my HD800 in the mids and bass and hence I'd prefer the NFB28 in this case.  As mentioned I would really want to bring my LCD3 to try it again, I suspect it would be a very good pair, maybe even better with an LCD2.
 
Which version of the NFB-10 do you own?  and what headphone you're pairing the DA8 with?

 
Unfortunately the HD800 is a super picky headphone but I appreciate the comparison regardless. I actually just sold my DA8. The only reason is because I have the special order yulong D8/A8 coming, other wise I would have never sold that beast. Its the best DAC I've ever heard. I just bought some HD800's but after the DA8 went so couldn't try them on it. Was amazing with He-400's and my T1's. Spectacular. 
Now that I have the 800, it's very positive that it sounds great with the 28.
I owned the second nfb-10. See above post. 

 

[SidiousX]

  Not entirely true. The reason I didn't jump on the nfb-28 was due to the advice from Kingwa himself. I owned the second nfb-10 so definitely one of the earlier ones. Kingwa's advice was that they were essentially the same unit with different Dac chip (which in his words made very little difference) a much better usb, larger transformer & analogue inputs. He said that unless the improved usb was very important to me then don't buy it to expect a noticeably different unit.  Essentially the exact same unit with a couple of tweaks.
Now since I have sold my nfb-10 and knowing those few tweaks would elevate it a couple steps from an already impressive sound quality (for the price) - thats pretty good in my book.

 
What is not entirely truth? What Kingwa should have said to you, buy my new 10E2/28 you will hear the difference that shift you to new heaven? He said what honest seller/constructor should said. Project evolve, see the old one and compare to the new one, signal path, pcb scheme yada, yada, yada. What i am talking about is what i could hear, the real compare. All creactions of Kingwa evolved by recent years , imho in good direction. Both in construct and soundwise. On top of that one could not hear difference in Audio-GD inplementation of WM8741 and ES9018, and one can.For me difference is clear. Same as difference which come with the new Audio-GD DAC generations.

 

[BournePerfect]

I've always said Kingwas gears are much more discernible from each other than he gives them credit for. This is even more true between the NFB, Reference, and Master series too. If Kingwa says there are ANY differences to his ears-take notice. My .02.
 
-Daniel

 

[customNuts]

   
What is not entirely truth? What Kingwa should have said to you, buy my new 10E2/28 you will hear the difference that shift you to new heaven? He said what honest seller/constructor should said. Project evolve, see the old one and compare to the new one, signal path, pcb scheme yada, yada, yada. What i am talking about is what i could hear, the real compare. All creactions of Kingwa evolved by recent years , imho in good direction. Both in construct and soundwise. On top of that one could not hear difference in Audio-GD inplementation of WM8741 and ES9018, and one can.For me difference is clear. Same as difference which come with the new Audio-GD DAC generations.

 
Hahaha, jesus mate, settle down. You crack me up. Kind of missed my point though but regardless, we're on the same team, relax. I've known King wa for a long time now so no, I don't want him to lie to me at all. & for the record, I never said they would sound the same - at all. Maybe you should read my post again. lol.

 

[customNuts]

  I've always said Kingwas gears are much more discernible from each other than he gives them credit for. This is even more true between the NFB, Reference, and Master series too. If Kingwa says there are ANY differences to his ears-take notice. My .02.
 
-Daniel

 
& this is entirely true, hence why I'm still interested in buying the 28. He is very humble like that which I like.

 

[BournePerfect]

I'd like more opinions how it performs from the amp side-particularly with balanced HD800s...
 
-Daniel

 

[SidiousX]

   
Hahaha, jesus mate, settle down. You crack me up. Kind of missed my point though but regardless, we're on the same team, relax. I've known King wa for a long time now so no, I don't want him to lie to me at all. & for the record, I never said they would sound the same - at all. Maybe you should read my post again. lol.

 
With all due respect, i have previously readed your post carefully before i have replied. You have used phrase "Not entirely true" concerning my post, so in my reply i have simply provide my view of the point to extend, that's all.

 

[customNuts]

   
With all due respect, i have previously readed your post carefully before i have replied. You have used phrase "Not entirely true" concerning my post, so in my reply i have simply provide my view of the point to extend, that's all.

 
No worries mate, just to clarify - you were portraying the older nfb-10 & the new nfb-28 as "completely different implementation of DAC" which from the creators point of view is - not entirely true. 
Thats all.
& btw, welcome to head -fi, sorry about your wallet!
 
 
Now that I've bought these crazy picky hd800's, I'd love to hear some more impressions with the 28 too - balanced. Seems very positive so far.

 

[tim3320070]

  No i meant 1.32, 11.32 is completely different class and can not be compare with much more expensive DAC's. To avoid any misunderstanding, concerning sound differencies/quality I am not talking about headphone implementation,  I am talking about DAC per-se implementation with signal fed by USB-32.

 
You're saying you think the DAC section in the NFB-28 sounds better than the DAC section of the stand-alone NFB-1.32?

 

[SidiousX]

   
No worries mate, just to clarify - you were portraying the older nfb-10 & the new nfb-28 as "completely different implementation of DAC" which from the creators point of view is - not entirely true.
Thats all.
& btw, welcome to head -fi, sorry about your wallet!
 
 
Now that I've bought these crazy picky hd800's, I'd love to hear some more impressions with the 28 too - balanced. Seems very positive so far.

Its clear when you compare build of old 10 and new 10ES/28 that construction evolved in electronic sense, that's my point of view. Basic idea of this built was not changed, that's the truth aswell.
Thanks for welcome, but it seems a bit overdue nevertheless i appreciate that. My wallet is hurted specifically by Audio-GD for recent years constantly
 

   
You're saying you think the DAC section in the NFB-28 sounds better than the DAC section of the stand-alone NFB-1.32?

Suprisingly yes, that's exactly what i am saying. To be exact however, i have made extensive tests on 1.32 at time when firmware USB-32 was at stage 3 and driver was at stage 1.1 it was some months ago.I am sure new construction as 10ES2/10ES3/28 has some tweaks to improve sound, aswell there was siginificant step from firmware 3 to actual firmware 7/9/9.3. Additionaly 1.32 was without 2xTCXO, my actual 28 has 2xTCXO. Maybe if i would listen today 1.32 and 28 together, both with 2xTCXO, both at same firmware/driver stage, my impression would be different. Yet my impression of sound from that tests remains untouched and clear. To be precise this is only my impression/observation not the one and only truth. Both 1.32 and 28 (or 10ES2/3) are sonically excellent products, but for my ears 28 sound better from the start than did 1.32.

 

[customNuts]

That's it, I think I'll have to buy it. My excuse is to tied me over till my d8/a8 gets here which could take some time yet.
Also I love the analogue inputs. I can test out different dacs with the internal balanced amp, with a switch. Also the pre outs can go to my actives. I'll probably never sell the little beast. I feel that design has really matured into something special hence I think I'll jump on it.
Thanks for the impressions guys.