[Jibbie]

I'll definitely write up a review thread comparing the two, as well as a review thread comparing the Pro 900s to the D2000.  I'm going to be quite the busy head-fier in the near future 

 

[abcray]

I have the old NFB-12 unit and I have noticed an improve in sound after some burn in. I wish I could try different DAC filters and sound signatures. What's the availability for the company to implement a small module that could attach inside the unit that would allow us to choose filters, by jumpers, pins, whatever? It would be worth an upgrade, don't you think?

 

[HeatFan12]

Quote:

I have the old NFB-12 unit and I have noticed an improve in sound after some burn in. I wish I could try different DAC filters and sound signatures. What's the availability for the company to implement a small module that could attach inside the unit that would allow us to choose filters, by jumpers, pins, whatever? It would be worth an upgrade, don't you think?

Sorry, but this is too funny (not your post abcray, just in bold).....The NFB-12 came out like yesterday....lol
 
Go Quin-hua (King-Wa).......I love your gear sir...
 

 

[inter4ever]

After some research, I finally ordered the NFB-12 last Saturday. It has been a week and they have yet to ship it. Hopefully, the upgrade in quality from my onboard audio with my D2000 will be worth the wait.

 

[redc]

Quote:

After some research, I finally ordered the NFB-12 last Saturday. It has been a week and they have yet to ship it. Hopefully, the upgrade in quality from my onboard audio with my D2000 will be worth the wait.

Make sure to put gain on high.

 

 

[Jibbie]

With the impedance of the Denons, this has to be a joke, yes?
 
Quote:

Make sure to put gain on high.

 

 

 

[mrspeakers]

Efficiency is the variable to correlate to Gain...  

 

[dadong]

I'm just wondering guys. from what i read when i sifted through this topic is that the nfb-12 isn't that great of a match-up with the hd650s. Is that just because of the amp side of things? or is the dac just not well paired for it. 
 
I'm planning on bypassing the amp section of the nfb-12 all together and hooking it to my LD mkiv. So i'm just wondering if thats a good match up. I want this unit and the price seems like a steal.

 

[Tilpo]

I'm just wondering guys. from what i read when i sifted through this topic is that the nfb-12 isn't that great of a match-up with the hd650s. Is that just because of the amp side of things? or is the dac just not well paired for it. 
 
I'm planning on bypassing the amp section of the nfb-12 all together and hooking it to my LD mkiv. So i'm just wondering if thats a good match up. I want this unit and the price seems like a steal.

That's why I do, and it's great. The HD650 sounds good with the LD MKIV in my opinion.

But if you're only using it as a DAC you might want to do some more research, as there are better alternatives available on the market.
From my new knowledge of electronics I learned that using a fully discrete design is not very smart for headphone amps. Unless your doing high voltage applications op-amps are the way to go.
Another thing about Audio-GD is that they're pushing out new models at a far too quick rate, sacrificing on a proper development process. Also the designing by ear philosophy might not be the smartest thing ever either: When it comes to amps or DAC's you want them to mess up the signal as little as possible. This can only be ensured by measurements, the human ear simply isn't accurate enough. Additionally designing by ear might also cause extra inaccuracy as some distortion might be perceived as sounding better, while in fact such distortion is a bad thing.

I'm actually thinking of selling my NFB-12 after realizing this. I'll probably buy a cheaper DAC with better measurements first and compare the two.

 

[Brooko]

Well all I can compare is the NFB-12 with my E7/E9 combo (just sold the E7/E9 - so it leaves next week).
 
The NFB-12 is streets ahead IMO.  First thing I found was that resolution and imaging were far better with the Audio-GD.  Add the extra inputs, ability to apply filters, and the USB24/96 - for $200 USD it really is outstanding value for money.  I don't particularly care about the measurements either.  It sounds amazingly good - and is a real step-up from what I had.  It also pairs really well with both my DT880s and also the MS1i.  I have a feeling I'm also going to like it with the HD600 when it arrives.

 

[diegoeffio]

Anyone here listened to both audio-gd NFB-12 and Audinst mx-1? how would they compare?

 

[Elanzer]

Anyone here listened to both audio-gd NFB-12 and Audinst mx-1? how would they compare?

On paper NFB-12 is over twice as powerful amp wise, and the DAC section should be better (dual wm8741 vs single wm8740) NFB-12 is also something like 2-3x the audinst MX-1's size however.

 

[mrspeakers]

Quote:

From my new knowledge of electronics I learned that using a fully discrete design is not very smart for headphone amps. Unless your doing high voltage applications op-amps are the way to go.
Another thing about Audio-GD is that they're pushing out new models at a far too quick rate, sacrificing on a proper development process. Also the designing by ear philosophy might not be the smartest thing ever either: When it comes to amps or DAC's you want them to mess up the signal as little as possible. This can only be ensured by measurements, the human ear simply isn't accurate enough. Additionally designing by ear might also cause extra inaccuracy as some distortion might be perceived as sounding better, while in fact such distortion is a bad thing.

I'm actually thinking of selling my NFB-12 after realizing this. I'll probably buy a cheaper DAC with better measurements first and compare the two.

 
Measurements vs. sound is a subject of endless debate, and I don't want to derail the thread, as sound science is better for this topic.  
 
Regardless, the bottom line is there are crappy op-amp implementations and there are good ones, and the same holds for discrete, so making a statement that op-amps are always better is plain wrong.  
 
The NFB-12 is a very competent amp for the price, so frankly who ultimately cares if it's discrete or op-amps, anyhow?  I have more expensive op-amp gear, and it does not sound as good. But I don't have a particular bias.  When I design analog I prefer to go discrete, but I have heard good op-amp gear, too.   
 
Lastly, if you compare something you believe is better to something you believe is worse, you'll bias your results for certain unless you actually do a blind test, so if you go into this with preconceptions it's not likely you'll change your own mind.  My $.02.

 

[Tilpo]

 
Measurements vs. sound is a subject of endless debate, and I don't want to derail the thread, as sound science is better for this topic.  
 
Regardless, the bottom line is there are crappy op-amp implementations and there are good ones, and the same holds for discrete, so making a statement that op-amps are always better is plain wrong.  
 
The NFB-12 is a very competent amp for the price, so frankly who ultimately cares if it's discrete or op-amps, anyhow?  I have more expensive op-amp gear, and it does not sound as good. But I don't have a particular bias.  When I design analog I prefer to go discrete, but I have heard good op-amp gear, too.   
 
Lastly, if you compare something you believe is better to something you believe is worse, you'll bias your results for certain unless you actually do a blind test, so if you go into this with preconceptions it's not likely you'll change your own mind.  My $.02.

You're right. I guess I was may be overestimating it a bit. (don't hit me!)

I looked up RMAA measurements for the NFB-12 and I was positively surprised by the good results.
One interesting thing though, it seems that the frequency response is actually quite bad when run at 44kHz. On the other hand at 96 and up it's seems fine. It seems that with the NFB-12 upsampling is almost essential as a result.

For anyone interested:
Test at 24/96
Test at 24/192
Comparison between different sampling rates #1
Comparison between different sampling rates #2

 

[Jibbie]

I noticed that the inside of the nfb-12 has different digital filters that can be enabled, and I was just wondering what the effect of these are.  Do they force upsampling in the dac? If my music is nearly all 16/44, we'll these different settings cause the dac to render them as 24/96?
 
Any clarity on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thank you.