[Hawaiiancerveza]

How so?
 
Quote:

a $1000 headphone won't be THAT much better than a $300 headphone, despite being three times as expensive.

 
 

 

[Tilpo]

How so?

Because returns diminish significantly faster above the $400 price point. That's what I learned from lurking this forum at least.
I must admit that I have never heard something better than the HD650 yet, and apart from that it's also extremely subjective as to what a large difference is.

 

[Hawaiiancerveza]

I see.  Idk some of the high end stuff only go down a few hundred.  Thats not too bad.  But I guess it's a gamble for people like me in places where they don't get to hear them and only have reviews to go off of.
 
Quote:

Because returns diminish significantly faster above the $400 price point. That's what I learned from lurking this forum at least.
I must admit that I have never heard something better than the HD650 yet, and apart from that it's also extremely subjective as to what a large difference is.

 

 

[Tilpo]

I think it's mainly a matter of personal opinion, given that some people spend >$100,000 on their system and still don't think they went too far.
There are also people on the other end of the scale who simply can't imagine spending more than $10 on audio.

And I must admit that I am currently slowly saving up some money to buy me a pair of LCD-2's. So I'm not one to judge the big spenders either.

 

[tim3320070]

Owning and living with the equipment your are reading about, and commenting on, is much more helpful when rendering an opinion. Of the many several full sized headphones I have owned/own, the DT770-600 is the best bang for the buck in closed headphones. This is my experience and opinion. Is also happens to sound great on the NFB12, as does everything else I own.

 

[tme110]

Going up the range in headphones after a few $hundred makes a much more noticable difference than with amps or DACs though.

 

[tim3320070]

Agreed, start with the best sounding headphones (to you) and go from there. You may enjoy a $200 headphone over a $1000 one.

 

[ac500]

I had the opportunity to listen to some LCD-2's a few times another day. The first time I compared against the Senn HD 650, it sounded like there was a huge difference - the LCD-2's being clearly higher resolution. I later listened some more more carefully though, and while the LCD-2s certainly sounded higher resolution, it really wasn't all that huge of a difference once my psychological-burn-in was through. The sound signature was probably a little nicer in the sense that it sounds more flat throughout, but that's not alone enough to make it worth $1000 to me. One funny/perplexing thing was that on one particularly bass heavy piece, I thought "Wow these LCD-2's sound amazingly smooth and precise for such low tones", then I realized I had my HD-650's on. Also, the LCD-2's are too uncomfortable for me, mainly because the headband is not long enough for my head.
 
Anyway I agree that there's very little difference among good headphones above the $300 range from my experience. Maybe some day I'll buy some $1500 headphones or something for the better detail, but right now I'm quite happy with my NFB-12 and ~$400 headphones

 

[Theodore]

It is for sure.Headphones and loudspeakers, should  improve more,to go near the quality of the other pieces of the chain.

 

[CantScareMe]

wait, wait.
 
dt770/600 is one of the worst headphones money could buy.
 
It now comes with bass holes- just to make sure it has more bass than the ghastly dt770 pro80. And covering the holes up doesn't make this headphone much better.
 
I rank them with or below the beats and bose ranges. 

 

[tim3320070]

In your opinion, or are you handing down word from above as your post seems to suggest?
Edit: reeks of troll

 

[quasio]

Hi All,
Very very close to getting an NFB-12. Currently got a HD555, was thinking of upgrading to the HD650.
So the plan was to buy an NFB-12, live with that for awhile then grab the HD650 in the future. 
 
Some previous posts seem to suggest it doesn't pair well with the HD650.
 
Has anyone tried the capacitor mod to bring it back to NFB-11 type signature?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/524263/audio-gd-nfb-12/525#post_7252522
 
Or isit safer to just to spend the extra money and go for the NFB-5 and buy a few different op amps to try it all out? 
 
(but then if i'm spending 400USD  i might as well get the HD650 first?)
Ah.. a dilemma.
 

 

[Tilpo]

The NFB-12 does quite well with the HD 650 in my opinion. Not as well as my tube amp, but there is also a price difference to consider.

 

[CantScareMe]

No, i've had enough experience with headphones in general to not be a troll. 
You've clearly got pre 2011 dt770/600, which by trust of trustworthy headfiers are pretty good. But I dare you to go out and buy the new dt770/600 (This applies to the uk and in other places- as now all of these beyers come with the bass ports), then you'll see what i'm on about. 
 
 
I was just checking this nfb-12 forum as I've shockingly come across something that makes a positive difference to it. Now I should say, i'm not here to argue as I haven't the time so i'll only say it once. And if you don't agree or do i'm happy for you either way.
 
 
Okay, i'm someone who likes to test things using two principles: Rigour and a $budget. I let my ears do the deciding but I pay very very special attention to making sure which test I do is as accurate, rigourous, bias free as possible. And enough $ so that I get a decent sample size.
 
I wanted to see what can improve the sound of a midfi dac/amp- the nfb- without actually replacing or tweaking internal components.
For the nfb, the setup was via usb out of a laptop plugged into a typical uk household mains.  
 
-Difference (that i can detect) between usb cables? hmm..... .........
NO: used belkins/wireworlds/audioquest/others
BUT A BIG BUT: definately upgrade the stock cables to something like a £5 belkin as from experience often they have a loose connection to the usb ports and (a long long story cut short) cause BSOD's. 
 
-Difference between 3pin mains power chord feeding the nfb? .....
NO: used QED/merlin tarantula/stock/others
 
-Does Galvanic isolation of the computers usb port via an isolator help? .....
NOT really (only tested olimex and one other one)
 
-Difference between internal pc configurations/tweaks like the ones found on ? well yes and no:
YES: configuring usb port connections/changing foobar or asio settings helped in reducing stutter, glitches and low level noise.  
NO: ssd/partitioning/cpu or ram usage limiting/other more dangerous tweaks. Clean OS installs and getting rid of windows sound drivers may help for BSOD's.
 
-Using a mains conditioner make a difference?...
my god YES. Tested 3 random quality surge protectors and one mains conditioner- tacima 6 way mains conditioner. The tacima mains conditioner makes a notable difference to the sound, put it that way. It's not like skipping from an akg k271 to a denon d500 to the ed8 or something, as still the difference between headphones and for that matter the difference between a crap and well recorded track, are still the biggest ways to experience a difference at headfi in my view. 
It just seems like this conditioner gives the nfb12 more power. More power to give a better bass response, soundstage and dynamics. Just feels like anything you listen to has more energy and is less laid back. And in case you're wondering I was very careful of volume matching. 
 
 
 
So to summarise the only improvements i've manged to come across are:
-upgrading to a slightly better branded usb cable
-making sure that the laptop usb port that your dac/amp is connected to has no other driver installed on it and so is thus used by only your audio equipment.
-mains conditioner
 
And other notes:
- 3 laptops tested xp/w7, 2 different cities, a few different mains outlets.
- Enough different headphones used. shure se315, mx980, grado gr8, ed8, d500, k271.
- Only posted this as I thought maybe it might be interesting for a few people
- Quite a few of the products that I selected were discovered from whathifi's website.
 
 

 

[captouch]

The NFB-12 does quite well with the HD 650 in my opinion. Not as well as my tube amp, but there is also a price difference to consider.

I'm a little surprised, as the NFB-12 really seems to mellow out the detail and to some degree highs (while adding more lows) on my DT880's, compared to my Hifiman EF5 with AD797 opamp mod. Which I prefer depends upon the material. So far, the EF5 hasn't been fatiguing, and the NFB-12 isn't bad to listen to, just a lot more laid back.

Since I've read that the HD650 and DT880's are on opposite ends of the laid back vs bright/clinical spectrum, I would have guessed the HD650's might be too tamed on the NFB-12. I've been thinking of later picking up a pair of HD650's as a contrast to the Beyers.

I think my next purchase will be a Bottlehead Crack, which I've read does well with both cans. I'm really curious how it compares to the NFB-12 and EF5 sound signatures.