[raptor84]

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When did you purchase yours then?
 


 

I paid up in early July but it only got shipped out mid-july due to a logistical complication.
 

 

[captouch]

 
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Overall I think these work well with brighter (er-4) - neutral (k701) phones with the best paring so far with the 701. Am still contemplating  getting a dt-800 600ohm to try out
 
 

 
I have DT880 600ohms.  I'll compare the headphone out of this vs my other amp (HiFiMan EF5) and post comparisons.
 
 

 

[sysfail]

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I have DT880 600ohms.  I'll compare the headphone out of this vs my other amp (HiFiMan EF5) and post comparisons.
 
 

Would love to see a comparison between the NFB-12 and a tube amp like the HiFiMan EF5.

 

 

[ac500]

I'm curious if anyone knows the difference technical or signal-wise between Lo/High Gain, compared to simply turning the volume knob.

 

[jimbob747]

I'm having a little trouble 'warming' to the NFB-12, haven't had it very long and it's been awhile since i've really focused on HP out instead of balanced... It was just a cheap option for something to listen to in bed, as i've still got a few standard cans.

The reason I bought this over the NFB-11 or Martix etc... Is the supposed 'warm' sound, rounding off the high end which I thought'd be ideal for bed. Anyway, comparing it using both optical and as a USB sound card for my laptop (using DAC out of the NFB to Yamaha A-S1000 to EB Acoustics EB2s) compared to the Marantz CD7003 (which i wouldn't consider warm) I found the midrange a little recessed... Noone else? Anyone even have that as a first impression? I'm sure i'll 'burn in' and get used to it but i've got a feeling, coming upstairs I'm always going to be a little disappointed (which in all honesty i did expect, but not from the midrange).

Maybe my CD7003 is warmer than I thought?
I'd love to hear some feedback maybe it's some source problem i'll have to fiddle with everything and have a look.

Sounds fine out of the headphone out though, the only thing that could be different is... Oh no, Snake oil... CABLES. I'll have to do some serious checking before i start tricking myself into the 'magical world of cables'. Might be able to fix it with my glass hammer...  

 

[oculus]

Once the brain has acclimatized to the sound difference, you should really enjoy the nfb-12. Brain burn in takes 2-4 days

 

[tme110]

There is no other difference.
 
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I'm curious if anyone knows the difference technical or signal-wise between Lo/High Gain, compared to simply turning the volume knob.

 

 

[tme110]

I've seen quite  a few posts from people using the -12 as a DAC only or asking about using it as a DAC - if that's what you're after, why not just get the -3?  I realize it's a little more but it would be a noticably better DAC.

 

[captouch]

Quote:

I've seen quite  a few posts from people using the -12 as a DAC only or asking about using it as a DAC - if that's what you're after, why not just get the -3?  I realize it's a little more but it would be a noticably better DAC.

Main difference is the caps and PSU?  Noticeably better with casual listening or only with critical/focused?  

 

[captouch]

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Would love to see a comparison between the NFB-12 and a tube amp like the HiFiMan EF5.

 

 
Did some listening tonight.  Here are my impressions:
 
SACD player: Sony DVP-NC685V DVD/SACD player using optical out.  Used for CD's only since SACD layer doesn't output from optical or coax.
NFB-12 as DAC using primarily default [size=small]2X oversampling , Linear phase 'brickwall' filter[/size][size=small] [/size]setting, but also switched into 8x minimum phase apodising digital filter
HiFiMan EF5 with Fullmusic 12AU7 tube and AD797AR opamp mod (replace stock OP275)
Beyerdynamic DT880-600ohm
 
The NFB-12 has about 75hrs on it so far.
 
Music used:
1) Kind of Blue (Miles Davis): Track 6: Flamenco Sketches (Alternate Take) - picked because the bass in the beginning seems deeper than the normal take and Miles horn is quite piercing when it comes in around 20s
2) Yellow Submarine Songtrack - 1999 Remastered (Beatles): Track 3: Eleanor Rigby - picked because of vocals and strings
3) Yellow Submarine Songtrack - 1999 Remastered (Beatles): Track 10: Baby You're a Rich Man - picked because of bass in the beginning
4) Concord Jazz Sampler Vol 2 (various): Track 6: The Waters of March (Susannah McCorckle) - picked for smooth vocals, piano
 
Unless otherwise noted, the comments below are with the default 2x brickwall filter.  In comparing HP amps, I used NFB-12 HP out (High Gain) or Fixed setting RCA outputs into the EF5.
 
Listening Impressions:
Bass: NFB-12 HP had stronger bass, possibly deeper as well.  I just felt it more, especially on Flamenco and Baby.  EF5 bass wasn't weak - I heard it fine (though perhaps not as deep), but didn't "feel" the strength of it like I did on the NFB-12
 
Detail: EF5 definitely had more detail, clarity, definition on both midrange and highs.  Very evident on vocals and strings (Eleanor and The Waters), but pretty obvious on all tracks.  I would go so far as to say the NFB-12 HP out was veiled.
 
Highs: NFB-12 seemed to have rolled off highs.  While I know the DAC itself is supposed to have this characteristic, the HP out of the NFB-12 seemed to add to this effect, as the EF5 was fed by the same DAC and the highs were much more evident on it.
 
Soundstage: Didn't try to compare this in detail on this listening session.  Will listen for this on my next session.
 
Even though the Beyers are supposed to on the brighter side, the combination of warm DAC and additional rolled off/veiled HP out (compared to EF5) was too much for me.  It's a nice, pleasant, relaxed listen, but I feel like I'm missing out on what's actually there in the music.  In any scenario I can think of, I would opt for using the EF5 as my HP amp.
 
Digital Filter Setting (8x Minimum Phase Apodising Filter):
Having read the earlier posts (~page 32 and beyond) about 44KHz sources being excessively rolled off and 8x apodising filters recovering some of that roll-off, I reset my jumpers to go from the 2x brickwall default to the 8x minimum phase apodising option.
 
It definitely did bring back some of the high frequencies.  It may have been my imagination, but I thought I lost just a bit of the strength on the low side.  With this setting, the NFB-12 HP out improved, but still wasn't on the same level as the EF5 even at the previous 2x brickwall setting.  The EF5 with the 8x apodising filter as expected had additional high frequencies.  
 
If I could only listen to NFB-12 HP out's, I would opt for the 8x apodising filter for sure.  Out of the EF5, I haven't decided whether I prefer the 2x brickwall or 8x apodising because I didn't spend enough time comparing the two, but this could be a mood dependent call where if I felt like I wanted a more relaxed listen, I'd choose the 2x and if I wanted all the detail/highs possible, choose the 8x.
 
There are nine settings, and I'm not really motivated to try them all.  Most all of my content/sources are 44KHz.
 
Final Thoughts:
The NFB-12 HP out doesn't sound bad.  Without a point of comparison, I'd have probably been content with it.  But even with the Beyers, it seems to veil too much of the detail and highs for me.  
 
The EF5 with NFB-12 DAC is a good combination.  I plan on doing some additional comparisons between the built-in SACD DAC and the NFB-12 to really see if I can tell the difference.  I just did a very brief listen on the EF5 between both DACs and it wasn't night and day.
 
I also plan on comparing my IEMs (UE TripleFi 10's and Ety ER-4P's) on the NFB-12 vs the EF5, maybe this weekend.
 
Last note: So far, I haven't found any good thing to say about the Low gain setting.  It really seems to make the sound dull and boring, and it seems more than just the volume level - meaning if I set on Low gain and crank up the volume, it still seems pretty dull to me at higher volumes.
 
 
 

 

[captouch]

So today I tried to compare the NFB-12 DAC against my SACD player DAC and my old preamp DAC.
 
Details on DACs:
1) NFB-12 DAC (dual Wolfson WM8741's using 8x oversampling minimum phase apodising digital filter fed by Sony DVP-NC685V optical out
2) Sony DVP-NC685V DVD/SACD internal DAC (no details on what it uses)
3) Sony TAE77-ESD pre-amp internal DACs (only described as "Dual d/a converters with 4fs digital filter") - this is a late 80's Sony ES product.  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E77ESD.html
 
Speakers: Alon II
Speaker cable: Kimber Kable 8TC bi-wire
PreAmp: Sony TAE77-ESD in Source Direct mode (bypasses tone controls)
Amp: B&K EX442 (200W/ch)
 
Same music selections as in my last post.
 
At first, in blind testing then checking my preferences based on DAC, the NFB-12 came out clearly ahead, with the Sony SACD DAC's being slightly preferable to the pre-amp internal DACs.  The NFB-12 was much better in bass, detail, clarity - no comparison.  
 
Then. . .I decided to take my SPL meter and measure the volume levels.  The NFB-12 output was 2dB higher than the other two, so I switched from Fixed to Variable mode and adjusted the NFB-12 volume control until it was at parity with the others.
 
THEN, honestly, I couldn't tell the difference to any significant degree.  They all sounded good - full, detailed, similar soundstage.  The Alon is supposed to be a detailed, revealing speaker, so I don't think it was just being masked by the speakers.
 
But it really surprised me that I could not tell any significant difference between a new DAC, a built-in DAC, and 20+ year old DAC.  Which was actually kind of disappointing, but not too disappointing since they all sounded good.  
 
I was at this for a couple of hours, so it is possible that I had aural fatigue by the time I actually volume leveled and tried to listen for differences, but in any case, it wasn't night and day by any means.
 
Interesting.
 
I should be able to perform similar comparison using my DT880's instead of the Alon II's, but I will have to use the HP output of my TAE77-ESD pre-amp - I'm not sure if it's very capable of driving the 600ohm DT880's, but it's worth a try, or I can use my IEM's which are much easier to try.  Maybe I'll try this tomorrow.
 
 

 

[Elanzer]

Earlier in the thread a user named supercurio had made the measurement that High gain should always be used, as setting low gain attenuates the signal. On his measurements, it was more like +0dB and -12dB gain rather than +12dB and +0dB gain, between High and Low settings.

High Gain should be a clearer, stronger signal.

I wish my NFB-12 had the options to adjust digital filters, damned early adopter punishment.

 

[neddamttocs]

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I wish my NFB-12 had the options to adjust digital filters, damned early adopter punishment.

Totally agree with this.

 

[Tilpo]

Totally agree with this.

Third.
Though I doubt the differences will be that huge.

 

[captouch]

Tried comparing DAC's again (see post #1211) with my Beyer DT880/600's.  Again, no difference of note.  All sounded good.  Maybe, just maybe, the NFB-12 sounded a bit fuller/sweeter, but I wouldn't wager anything on it.
 
Arguably the three DACs I compared are all relatively high quality.  I have an old '97 RCA DVD player that probably has a cheap DAC - as well as a Sony car CD walkman from the late 80's.  Maybe I'll try those out at some point to see whether I can tell some difference.
 
Regarding HP amp comparisons (post #1210): Because I can't think of a good consistent/reliable way to SPL meter level the output from the NFB-12 HP out and EF5 out, I can't say for sure that some of my impressions weren't due to different output levels.  I was really fooled by that when I did my initial DAC comparisons, so volume is really important in perceived sound quality.