[i019791]

   
is the V200 actually balanced? I did not see an actual Balanced Headphone out... only a Single End out

 
It is not balanced. But the amp of NFB-28 is, and plugging cans single end to it is suboptimal.

 

[Makiah S]

   
The only reason I opted for the stock SE cable is because I don't have the same SE version of my balanced cables.... in any case, these two combos are really cut from the same cloth and any "difference" I can discern is actually not huge.  
 
And no, don't see any easy way to use IC between the internal dac/amp sections.  FWIW the pair of XLR IC used actually cost more than the NFB-28....

 
 

   
It is not balanced. But the amp of NFB-28 is, and plugging cans single end to it is suboptimal.

 
Then how did you compare them? It's like comparing an open can to a semi open, there is a differance. Not much but's it is worth while
 
Either way, I'm happy with my NFB10ES2... just waiting for delivery truck. It's 4:09pm and the last I heard from DHL at 2pm was that is was well on the delivery truck to mah house... from Charleston [which is about 2 hours away] so we'll see 

 

[kkcc]

Then how did you compare them? It's like comparing an open can to a semi open, there is a differance. Not much but's it is worth while
 
Either way, I'm happy with my NFB10ES2... just waiting for delivery truck. It's 4:09pm and the last I heard from DHL at 2pm was that is was well on the delivery truck to mah house... from Charleston [which is about 2 hours away] so we'll see 

I don't necessarily agree running the nfb28 with SE cable is "unfair" as it got enough power output for the LCD3 even in SE mode. It pumps 6W into 50ohms in balanced mode and if we take 1/4 for SE it still have 1.5W which is aplenty according to audeze. Hence I used the same stock SE cable to compare. My upgraded Norse Reign cable improved the sound over stock quite noticeably and I don't have an SE Norse Reign.

IMO would only be fair to compare balanced to balanced if I get a v181 instead of the v200.

It is kinna moot anyway as even in SE i feel the nfb28 performed very well and not far from the v800/v200 combo. I compared these just to benchmark what kind of $$$ I am looking at if I want a meaningful upgrade over the nfb28.

 

[i019791]

I don't necessarily agree running the nfb28 with SE cable is "unfair" as it got enough power output for the LCD3 even in SE mode. It pumps 6W into 50ohms in balanced mode and if we take 1/4 for SE it still have 1.5W which is aplenty according to audeze. Hence I used the same stock SE cable to compare. My upgraded Norse Reign cable improved the sound over stock quite noticeably and I don't have an SE Norse Reign.

IMO would only be fair to compare balanced to balanced if I get a v181 instead of the v200.

It is kinna moot anyway as even in SE i feel the nfb28 performed very well and not far from the v800/v200 combo. I compared these just to benchmark what kind of $$$ I am looking at if I want a meaningful upgrade over the nfb28.

 
I think you are implicitly making the assumption that power is the only significant difference between balanced and single end. But we might get less distortion when balanced (or we might not, but we have to hear both to be sure).

 

[Makiah S]

I don't necessarily agree running the nfb28 with SE cable is "unfair" as it got enough power output for the LCD3 even in SE mode. It pumps 6W into 50ohms in balanced mode and if we take 1/4 for SE it still have 1.5W which is aplenty according to audeze. Hence I used the same stock SE cable to compare. My upgraded Norse Reign cable improved the sound over stock quite noticeably and I don't have an SE Norse Reign.

IMO would only be fair to compare balanced to balanced if I get a v181 instead of the v200.

It is kinna moot anyway as even in SE i feel the nfb28 performed very well and not far from the v800/v200 combo. I compared these just to benchmark what kind of $$$ I am looking at if I want a meaningful upgrade over the nfb28.

 
Why own the expensive balanced unit if your only driving it Se? honestly My GD NFB 10SE2 came in a few hours ago
 
And the SE out of it sounds simmilary to my Matrix M Stage, despite the extra power, only when I run it in Balanced do I actually hear a noticeable improvement. Still why even owned and spend the extra money on a balanced set up and then use SE? Might as well have gotten a better quality SE amp an ran it out of your exisiting Dac, as I'm sure $655 can get you a nicer amp than the 10ES2, 
 
still the balanced amp dac combo really shines when you run it balanced 

 

[kkcc]

Why own the expensive balanced unit if your only driving it Se? honestly My GD NFB 10SE2 came in a few hours ago
 
And the SE out of it sounds simmilary to my Matrix M Stage, despite the extra power, only when I run it in Balanced do I actually hear a noticeable improvement. Still why even owned and spend the extra money on a balanced set up and then use SE? Might as well have gotten a better quality SE amp an ran it out of your exisiting Dac, as I'm sure $655 can get you a nicer amp than the 10ES2, 
 
still the balanced amp dac combo really shines when you run it balanced 

LOL Em why would you think I am not running it balanced? Heck all my LCD uograde cables are 4pin xlr...

I am just running SE for the sake of the v200/v800 comparison.

Cheers.

 

[Makiah S]

LOL Em why would you think I am not running it balanced? Heck all my LCD uograde cables are 4pin xlr...

I am just running SE for the sake of the v200/v800 comparison.

Cheers.

 
Actually the SE out is slighty cleaner and linear than the M Stage is :O, although honestly with my w1000x I miss the color the M Stage added a smidge
 
Will have to hope a tube can bring them back to euphoria for me! Other wise I might sell em :/ 
 
Basically thought at the same volume lvls... the Audio GD has more bass then the M Stage... that's really the biggest differance, and it's a tighter bass, a tighter sound over all.  The bass is just a little more visceral and well textured with the AGD 10ES2, which is excellent for the Dt 880 and ShurEY 840, but the w1000x apprent mid dip becomes kinda glaring :O
 
That said... I do like extremes! So a second Harmonics + Woody resonnace might be what saves them from the Chopping block :3 that and a copper recable 

 

[Prohobo]

So I pulled the trigger...It was either the NFB-28 or NFB-10.33
 
I ended up going with the NFB-10.33 for the following reasons.
 
1. I didn't need analog input that the NFB-28 had.
2. I like the format (design) of the NFB-28 and NFB-10.33 style, so that eliminated the NFB-10ES for me.
3. I have not heard the ES DAC, but have heard the WM DAC (NFB-2) and I knew I liked the sound. I didn't know if I wanted to risk not hearing the ES before purchasing.
4. My budget was limited so the $100 savings over the NFB-28 was a huge help for me.
5. I am running the unit also as a pre-amp into an active cross-over bi-amp system, so the twin XLR outputs on the NFB-10.33 makes it easy to hook up to my two AMPs with XLR inputs.
 
I know that many of you are big ES fans over the WM and someday perhaps I will get a chance to listen to a NFB ES DAC. However, I think I will be very pleased with the DUAL WM. Note, I also picked up the extra-D9001 module.
 
I will take pictures and give you my novice review when I get it.
 
Regards and thanks for answering all my questions and helping with the decision.
 
Note: I will be listening with HE-300 headphones and using it as a Pre-Amp into my custom made open-baffle speakers.

 

[kkcc]

So I pulled the trigger...It was either the NFB-28 or NFB-10.33

I ended up going with the NFB-10.33 for the following reasons.

1. I didn't need analog input that the NFB-28 had.
2. I like the format (design) of the NFB-28 and NFB-10.33 style, so that eliminated the NFB-10ES for me.
3. I have not heard the ES DAC, but have heard the WM DAC (NFB-2) and I knew I liked the sound. I didn't know if I wanted to risk not hearing the ES before purchasing.
4. My budget was limited so the $100 savings over the NFB-28 was a huge help for me.
5. I am running the unit also as a pre-amp into an active cross-over bi-amp system, so the twin XLR outputs on the NFB-10.33 makes it easy to hook up to my two AMPs with XLR inputs.

I know that many of you are big ES fans over the WM and someday perhaps I will get a chance to listen to a NFB ES DAC. However, I think I will be very pleased with the DUAL WM. Note, I also picked up the extra-D9001 module.

I will take pictures and give you my novice review when I get it.

Regards and thanks for answering all my questions and helping with the decision.

Note: I will be listening with HE-300 headphones and using it as a Pre-Amp into my custom made open-baffle speakers.

Congrats and I don't think you could have gone wrong with either! I wonder if kingwa would be able to give use user changeable dac daughter boards so we can try how different dac sound...

 

[daerron]

Yep, it would be interesting (I would buy all of them!

), as far as I know, switcheable DAC units are only available for the compass?

 

[kvtaco17]

So guys I'm stuck. Been trying to decide if I'm want to go balanced or not. I'm looking at getting the NFB-10ES2 BUT everything I have is single ended... I do plan on getting a HD800 soon, and I could balance my AD2000x and PS500. (kinda a lot of current for these guys though lol) So is it worth going balanced? How is the single ended performance of this amp? How does it compare to the  NFB-11.32 in single ended operation? My ultimate goal is to replace my o2/ODAC with something with balls that sounds neutral.

 

[i019791]

  So guys I'm stuck. Been trying to decide if I'm want to go balanced or not. I'm looking at getting the NFB-10ES2 BUT everything I have is single ended... I do plan on getting a HD800 soon, and I could balance my AD2000x and PS500. (kinda a lot of current for these guys though lol) So is it worth going balanced? How is the single ended performance of this amp? How does it compare to the  NFB-11.32 in single ended operation? My ultimate goal is to replace my o2/ODAC with something with balls that sounds neutral.

From past experience with similar Audio gd products I expect NFB-10ES2 single end being not better (could even be inferior) comparing to Compass 2, but I would ask Audio gd about this to make sure. Compass 2 is very likely to be a step up from NFB-11.32. I don't know where O2/ODAC stands comparing to the Audio gds
If you can cheaply reterminate the cables of all your cans and you are really ok with very neutral gear, I think NFB-10ES2 balanced or NFB-28 (for the line in) would be good. But if you go the road of buying aftermarket cables the total cost goes up a lot and I don't personally think that the sound quality difference comparing to Compass 2 is adequately justified.

 

[zenki14]

  So guys I'm stuck. Been trying to decide if I'm want to go balanced or not. I'm looking at getting the NFB-10ES2 BUT everything I have is single ended... I do plan on getting a HD800 soon, and I could balance my AD2000x and PS500. (kinda a lot of current for these guys though lol) So is it worth going balanced? How is the single ended performance of this amp? How does it compare to the  NFB-11.32 in single ended operation? My ultimate goal is to replace my o2/ODAC with something with balls that sounds neutral.

 
So I got out my 4pin XLR to single end adapter from the closet and did a quick A/B test, between balanced and single end out of the headphone amp of 10ES2. Using Beyer T1.
 
I admit I'm quite biased when it comes to balanced vs single end, especially on AGD products.  However, differences were actually smaller than I expected... Balanced opens up treble and bass extremes, I also felt the soundstage being a bit wider, but not like a night and day difference.  When I had the NFB-10.2, that had a little bit more difference, balanced having the same improvements mentioned but to a more noticeable level.
 
Maybe the amp section has been revised since the 10.2 gen, I don't know.  Anyway, I would still recommend the 10ES2 over the little 11.32.  I used to have the NFB-12 and then went to NFB-10.2, and improvements were significant, immediately noticed.  Larger soundstage, clarity from top to bottom, and POWER.  Definately worth the price difference.  For AGD amps or DACs, models with the R-core transformer is what I personally recommend.

 

[Makiah S]

   
So I got out my 4pin XLR to single end adapter from the closet and did a quick A/B test, between balanced and single end out of the headphone amp of 10ES2. Using Beyer T1.
 
I admit I'm quite biased when it comes to balanced vs single end, especially on AGD products.  However, differences were actually smaller than I expected... Balanced opens up treble and bass extremes, I also felt the soundstage being a bit wider, but not like a night and day difference.  When I had the NFB-10.2, that had a little bit more difference, balanced having the same improvements mentioned but to a more noticeable level.
 
Maybe the amp section has been revised since the 10.2 gen, I don't know.  Anyway, I would still recommend the 10ES2 over the little 11.32.  I used to have the NFB-12 and then went to NFB-10.2, and improvements were significant, immediately noticed.  Larger soundstage, clarity from top to bottom, and POWER.  Definately worth the price difference.  For AGD amps or DACs, models with the R-core transformer is what I personally recommend.

 
agree'd I find the balanced out to be better than the SE. again not HUGE differances but more than enough to warrent getting all my headphones balanced. I've also found that balanced out's usually do sound better than SE ones, this is true with my AGD and my iBasso PB1, but that may be because those amps' are desigined to be run mainly balanced 
 
Still the AGD SE out is better than my M Stage SE Out 

 

[kvtaco17]

Thanks guys, I just needed to hear it from someone else so I can show the wife I'm not crazy lol I'll be ordering one very soon.