[bryanbhu]

In relation to my previous comment about catching details clearly with highly articulated genre and hardly any with the others, I've been doing some experiments. I just wanted to know if I can really appreciate modern genre as much. So I sat and actually made a concious decision to "listen" rather than "ride" them. A quick test became more serious as the pattern emerged and I ended up spending many hours, spread over half a day.

All I had to know was to make sure of whether or not I was hearing any difference in modern genre, beyond "Yes, it kind of sounds better" level which can just be a random effect or placebo. So there were few ways of doing this, but I just randomized a mixture of FLAC and 320kbps MP3 of the same tracks, at first 9 tracks of each (18 together) from various pop and rock genre, completely out of blue. I later doubled that number. I repeated it over a few dozen times, spread over afternoon to tonight. You might think that's stupid as it's somewhat irrelevant to the whole question surrounding genres, but I've always been more or less a non-believer beyond the "reasonable level" of scientific explanation (I fall into the "I remain open minded, but don't believe in the crazy end of audiophile spectrum" category if I say so myself), so it was a bit of a joke. I usually can't tell, or at least I believed I can't, between FLAC and 320kbps in modern (not-highly nuanced) genre. My thinking was, if I get consistent results to the affirmitive, I could perhaps test further to see if it's because of this system (the possibility of such I didn't even contemplate at first).

The result has been conclusive enough to raise questions for me. With a 30-second listening each before moving on to the next random track, I got about half right, so that's totally random as far as I'm concerned. But with 3-minute listening, I only got 2 wrong out of the whole time...!? That's out of perhaps 100 tracks total, maybe a bit less, but still a lot, relative to 2 incorrect guesses. This (prematurely, for my liking) indicates that I'm telling apart FLAC and 320kbps without a fluke. I'll repeat it again in a few days, I still don't believe this. Is lossless vs 320kbps meant to be this obvious with a modern genre? With classical it's usually easier as the aforementioned "rasp" quality is drastic enough with some instruments to be a give away; I just imagine the real instruments and contrast it to what I'm hearing through the headphone. With a modern instrumentation and arrangement I was never able to find any cue to pull off this outcome with any equipment I've owned in the past decade. I'm still not sure what I'm looking for with the likes of Pop, but I think I'm catching this with a smudge during a glissando and/or momental trills, and other times a vocal's legato over a busy accompaniment. That's my current reaction anyway. Again, a lot of uncertainties there so I'd dare not be sure at this stage.

I'm remaining calm, anyhow, if a little strained. It's disturbing, to be honest. I'll just give myself a good rest tonight and tomorrow I'll be fairly busy. I'll get to try it again in earnest next week, next time in a much more controlled manner.

What started as a jokey experiment yielded a result which I find hard to believe right now. It might just be a freak moment, but ... well I won't speculate at this point. I'm either having a freak day or, dare I say, a profound realization of a sort. This post has no real point, but I just wanted to throw this in here, in case any of you want to comment. Have any of you experienced this transition? What experiment did you do, or what cue did you use to differentiate? Or is it meant to be this clear, and I just didn't bother realizing this? Is this just normal and that I've just been too much of an "unbeliever" to notice? It might just be that I've never sat down with an amp that delivers enough detail to make this differentiation, but even then, this goes against my firm held belief that audiophilia has a strong cult-placebo element beyond a certain point. Sorry for all the questions and I intend no offense (if any taken), but I want some third person perspective here from various background, if possible. Maybe I'm just tired, I've had a lot of information overload this week perhaps (through my ears, that is).

 

[userlander]

I'm not surprised by your findings at all. The tell-tale sign of lower bitrate for me is a kind of compression (no pun intended) of especially the upper midrange and highs, most evident I find usually on the attack. Since the C2C excels at an open, detailed sound, it stands to reason that it would be easier to detect even subtle differences, like between lossless and 320.

 

[Adamora]

I've been using this amp for 4 month's, its been great since ive gotten it, but today, while listening, an insanely loud pop erupted from my headphones, scaring the living daylights out of me T_T, after testing everything out to see if anything got fried, i put my headphones back on and played some music, the difference in sound quality was so drastic its unbelievable, i didn't know there was so much detail in the song's i played, what the heck happened ._.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamora /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been using this amp for 4 month's, its been great since ive gotten it, but today, while listening, an insanely loud pop erupted from my headphones, scaring the living daylights out of me T_T, after testing everything out to see if anything got fried, i put my headphones back on and played some music, the difference in sound quality was so drastic its unbelievable, i didn't know there was so much detail in the song's i played, what the heck happened ._.

Blew the wax out of your ears?

 

[Adamora]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Blew the wax out of your ears?

I take care of my ears

 

[MomijiTMO]

Lol

lol

lol

and lol.

Les I'm going with your wax theory.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lol lol lol and lol. Les I'm going with your wax theory.

Best I could come up with on such short notice...

 

[Adamora]

Evil people ;-;!

 

[haloxt]

How loud was the pop? Also can you try to see if it is your headphones that changed or something else in your setup? If headphones maybe the loud pop was good exercise for the driver

.

 

[Adamora]

Well, the loudness of the pop...imagine yourself listening at your usual volume, the pop was 50-75% louder than normal listening level's.

my headphone's had fallen to the ground a few days back, did that do the trick ._.

 

[haloxt]

You could try plugging the headphones into something else and seeing if you still notice that change in sound quality. Or try another headphones in the rest of your setup and see if you can single out what gear was altered. I don't think anyone else experienced such a pop though, so maybe you are just imagining it. But if your ears are telling the truth it'd be nice to know what did change

.

 

[shampoosuicide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shampoosuicide Hello, I'm experiencing very loud intermittent clipping ('pop' sound) when turning the volume knob on my upgraded C-2C, both with music playing and without. I received my C-2C in mid-July and used it then with my HD650 (300 Ohm impedance, 103dB/mW sensitivity). I can't recall if I had this problem then. However, since pairing the amp with my AD2000 (40 Ohm impedance, 102dB/mW), the problem has become more distinct. I emailed Kingwa, and this was his reply: Quote: Dear Low, C2C upgrade version apply the 23 steps switch for volume control, while turn the switch, it will bread the current switch then close the new switch, that time will has a "click" sound from headphone, but I test by Denon D5K and HD650, these "click" sound not loud , I can clear to hear the "click" but can not let me scare. If your C2C "click" is loud to scare you, I think maybe either this reason, 1, input signal has high DC offset. 2, or your headphone very high sensitive, 3, or the 23 switch fault, 4, turn the volume too slow at every steps. If you have any problems, let me know please. Kingwa 1) I currently have my C-2C paired with the Zero DAC. I tried running the C-2C straight out of my iMac, and while the clicking noise was audible enough (not soft; moderate volume), it was not nearly as loud as when paired with the Zero, which could produce a loud 'pop' noise. However, I'd add that the input signal from the Zero is much higher than that of the iMac (ie. I have to turn the volume knob higher when running out of the iMac to get the same volume). 2) I doubt this is the reason, as the AD2000 has a lower sensitivity than the HD650. 3) Not sure. 4) Doubt so. The clipping occurs regardless of the speed at which the volume knob is turned. I'm guessing (1) is the most plausible reason, but I thought I'd check if anyone else is experiencing the same issue? Have my headphones been damaged in anyway? They still sound okay to me, for now. If it is my Zero, does it mean it's faulty? What exactly is/causes high DC offset anyway? Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamora I've been using this amp for 4 month's, its been great since ive gotten it, but today, while listening, an insanely loud pop erupted from my headphones, scaring the living daylights out of me T_T, after testing everything out to see if anything got fried, i put my headphones back on and played some music, the difference in sound quality was so drastic its unbelievable, i didn't know there was so much detail in the song's i played, what the heck happened ._.

For the record, I had my C-2C sent to Kingwa, and [size=small]it turned out that the volume pot was in fact faulty[/size]. He's had it fixed, and shipped back to me. I'm still waiting for it to arrive. He's also agreed to cover the shipping cost, so you can trust him to take care of you.

I also requested that he increase the number of steps between 9.30-11 o'clock (my normal listening volume), because the range previously was a little small with my AD2000.

And at the risk of undermining any credibility I have, I made the same observation that Adamora did: that the sound quality of my phones improved with the pops and clipping.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shampoosuicide /img/forum/go_quote.gif And at the risk of undermining any credibility I have, I made the same observation that Adamora did: that the sound quality of my phones improved with the pops and clipping.

sheesh, burn-in is always debated, but this is getting ridiculous. You guys actually heard loud pops, and then the SQ improved dramatically? What could possibly account for such a thing? Doesn't Kingwa test these himself for at least 100 hrs. before sending them out?

(Adamora: it's not really clear if you're saying the sound got better or worse, but I'm assuming better. Also, were you using those same headphones before you got the C-2C? Maybe there was a problem with them.)

It just seems unlikely that the amps would be designed with a component that once it blew, the amp sounded better! If there is such a component in the C2C, please tell me so I can remove it ASAP!

 

[shampoosuicide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif sheesh, burn-in is always debated, but this is getting ridiculous. You guys actually heard loud pops, and then the SQ improved dramatically? What could possibly account for such a thing? Doesn't Kingwa test these himself for at least 100 hrs. before sending them out? (Adamora: it's not really clear if you're saying the sound got better or worse, but I'm assuming better. Also, were you using those same headphones before you got the C-2C? Maybe there was a problem with them.) It just seems unlikely that the amps would be designed with a component that once it blew, the amp sounded better! If there is such a component in the C2C, please tell me so I can remove it ASAP!

You sound sceptical, so let me make it clear:

1) I heard loud clipping and popping on my amp. This is absolutely true, and I imagine Kingwa heard the same when I returned it to him.
2) I noticed a change in the sound, in terms of an improvement in detail. It was not dramatic, but certainly noticeable, and not as immediate as the change Adamora experienced.
3) I don't know how the clipping/popping affected the headphones or the amp - and I don't think any of us can account for this either - but I don't think it's beyond reason to suggest that such loud clipping/popping, especially over time (for me), could have had some impact on the headphones/amplifier.
4) I made this observation independently, as did Adamora. As far as I can tell, we're the only two people who have experienced this loud popping, and have both made the same observation. Unless someone else - such as yourself, perhaps? - has experienced the popping with a different observation, then I don't think anyone should be so quick to undermine our observation.
5) It might be placebo/perception effect, and I don't rule out this possibility. But both me and Adamora have the made the same observation, and if it was placebo, it would seem counter-intuitive to suggest that the loud popping improved the sound, when it would seem more likely that it would have been adversely affected.
6) It doesn't actually benefit me or make me look good to suggest that I heard such a change, but seeing as Adamora made the same observation, I felt I should chime in.

I've said my piece, and I don't see the point in debating this further, since I doubt we'll reach a conclusion.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shampoosuicide /img/forum/go_quote.gif You sound sceptical, so let me make it clear: 1) I heard loud clipping and popping on my amp. This is absolutely true, and I imagine Kingwa heard the same when I returned it to him. 2) I noticed a change in the sound, in terms of an improvement in detail. It was not dramatic, but certainly noticeable, and not as immediate as the change Adamora experienced. 3) I don't know how the clipping/popping affected the headphones or the amp - and I don't think any of us can account for this either - but I don't think it's beyond reason to suggest that such loud clipping/popping, especially over time (for me), could have had some impact on the headphones/amplifier. 4) I made this observation independently, as did Adamora. As far as I can tell, we're the only two people who have experienced this loud popping, and have both made the same observation. Unless someone else - such as yourself, perhaps? - has experienced the popping with a different observation, I don't see how you're in much of a place to dispute this. 5) It might be placebo/perception effect, and I don't rule out this possibility. All I know is I made this observation, as has Adamora, and that if it was placebo, it would seem counter-intuitive to suggest that the loud popping improved the sound, when it would seem more likely that it would have been adversely affected. 6) It doesn't actually benefit me or make me look good to suggest that I heard such a change, but seeing as Adamora made the same observation, I felt I should chime in. I've said my piece, and I don't see the point in debating this further, since I doubt we'll reach a conclusion.

I'm not a fan of those attenuators.

Most of these are supposed to "make before break" connections before switching. This helps keep them quiet. Perhaps these few weren't working in that fashion. Also, perhaps the switches were not switching in fully. The C-2C I had experience with would occasionally not switch in fully if the switch was turned slowly. This would make dull lifeless sound.

I can see a situation where you were partially switched and then at some point the switch fell into place properly and the sound snapped into focus and clarity. Possibly due to the component heating up and the switch shifting suddenly into correct position. A WAG I must admit.

2 Obsrvations:

1) I don't care for those attenuators
2) Maybe it wasn't ear wax after all!