[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally posted by xtreme4099 how bout silver mixed with copper ... some kind alloy anyone doing that ...

Yes. Off the top of my head I can think of the Harmonic Technology Pro Silway II and III as well as The Bolder Cable Company interconnects.

 

[D-EJ915]

do you guys know of a good place online to buy cables (like...with and without connectors)...thanks

 

[DejanM]

Believing that the freq.response measurement will tell something about brightness (or anything else) about the sound character of the cable is a very naive way of thinking. Simply because the freq. response is only one issue in a very complex equation, which is called interconnect or speaker cable.

There are too many whitnesses that cables of different materials do sound differently. Not necessarily better one from each other (because there are a lot of things that influence the end result, like for example: geometry of the cable, isolation, connectors, connections between connector and the cable, ...) but they do sound different. It has to be experimented in order to find out which one suits the best to your system. Once put in a concrete system, a cable becomes part of it, meaning that its impedance will interact with the impedances of connected components. This interaction cannot be generalized and it has to be examined in every concrete case. That is also why the same cable can sound differently when put in different systems.

 

[BIG POPPA]

This is where DIY comes in a bit? You can control every facet of the cable. Copper and Silver have different sound signatures. Make a few cables and try out a few things? To me Copper is very punchy with Solid State. Silver is very tall and detailed. With tubes Silver is Nirvana. Copper is a little too warm most of the time? Don't let me get started on Rhodium! I make most of my own cables on my rigs so I have a little experience? Just a little......

 

[boomy3555]

Hats off to you guys for digging up this "Dead Thread".... I can't say for sure but It's the oldest I've ever seen resurrected. But isn't it amazing how the same issues were as relevant 6 years ago as today and still so many people devided on the issue?

I find silver brighter than copper. period.. and I've made identical IC's with both. In addition, The dirtier the copper the better. but then I prefer a darker "Sultry" sound over bright and punchy

 

[fhuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomy3555 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hats off to you guys for digging up this "Dead Thread".... I can't say for sure but It's the oldest I've ever seen resurrected. But isn't it amazing how the same issues were as relevant 6 years ago as today and still so many people devided on the issue?

i'm sure it's a lot safer to talk cable six years ago than now.....

Quote:

I find silver brighter than copper. period.. and I've made identical IC's with both. In addition, The dirtier the copper the better. but then I prefer a darker "Sultry" sound over bright and punchy

what about silver power cord vs copper power cord?

 

[boomy3555]

No experience with power cords. ever Sorry

 

[pigmode]

You all can theorize and interpret numbers all day long, but until you actually have direct experience with a variety of these cables then you're just a bunch of...

 

[yblad]

Quote:

well, here's the deal:

i agree that it's possible than analyzers may not tell the whole story. after all, they only measure what we tell them to measure... so they only work if we measure something appropriate. if we use a machine to measure the temperature of a cable, well... what the hell is that gonna say--is the temeperature relevant at all? okay. so... if we use an analyzer to measure distortion in a signal...... that does measure an aspect of audio, but does not give them complete picture: distortion is not the end-all of audio. nor is frequency response. etc....

HOWEVER, when you say something sounds "brighter,"... well, that is very easily measured. something sounds brighter cause higher frequencies are being boosted, or lower frequencies are attenuated. i do not see how you could argue otherwise, but i'd like to know if you disagree.... "Brightness" is not one of those hard-to-quantify qualities.

therefore, if you can't measure frequency response differences between one cable or another, then it's clear one is not "brighter" than the other. it must all be in your head. and whether you like it or not, psychoacoustics is a proven phenomenom.

 

I'm afraid that's nonsense. "Brightness" does not equal a change in frequency response, it is one of the hardest to quantify qualities. "Brightness" can have a lot more to do with timbre than frequency. If you want an example, take helium. It is a fallacy that helium changes the frequency of the human voice. The frequency of a person's voice on helium is almost exactly the same as without helium. The apparent change in pitch is not due to a frequency change. And yet you hear a completely different pitch. The shape of the wave causes it, the number of harmonics which changes the wave form. Look up Fourier transforms if you want to know more.


 
In short, "brightness" is about the most difficult to quantify quality of a sound, and it is certainly not close to good enough to look only at frequency response.

 
If you want a bit more detail here it is. The human voice box when creating sound is an example of a forced damped harmonic oscillator, similar to a spring holding a weight  while a motor drives the system where there is air resistance. This type of system is governed by a type of equation called a second order differential equation. Remarkably, the same type of equation governs electrical systems known as LCR (standing for inductor-capacitor-resistor) circuits when driven by an AC current (just google comparison between LCR circuit and forced damped harmonic oscillators, it won't take long to find a proof of this). Electrical cables have long been known to act with capacitance, inductance and resistance. They are therefore LCR circuits. When you apply an audio signal, you have your AC current driver. So, mathematically electrical cables are startlingly similar to the human voice box. When a change in medium causes such a difference in the voice box, it would be foolish to think the same wasn't true of an LCR circuit. Particularly as changing the medium in the voice box only really effects the damping factor, while the material of the cable effects all three of the main parameters in the electrical system.
 
By the way, I do not own nor have I ever heard a silver cable. I am not some silver cable advocate trying to defend purchase choices or their listening experience. I am but a physicist who has an understanding of how this works. I in fact did an entire 30 lecture module on it in university. The very first lecture of which had the lecturer playing sounds at the same frequency with different pitches to the human ear. Trust me when I say that it is far far more complicated than pure frequency response.

EDIT: I feel I should add that I am not saying that I have proved that the material does have an audible effect, and nor was that my goal. I am just saying that the "proof against" given is wildly insufficient and that the question requires considerable further scientific examination. The case on this one is still open.
 

 

[pompon]

Each cables I have tried gave different result.
 
Connector it-self seem to have a good importance in the equation.
 
I am using pure silver RCA cable with WBT silver next gen connector.
the speaker wire are pure silver too without any connector.
 
It's not bright, it's just clean and transparent.
 
I have speaker wire silver plate too ... I don't like them very much. The solid code 100% pure silver is far far better and let the bass it's full body compared to the small silver plate wire.
 
The cable I own are Tempo Electric (BigTwist) ... I love them!
 

 

[yblad]

Furthermore it's possible that there some audible differences which are only present in certain set ups which aren't tested for by normal tests. What I'm particularly thinking of here is when something is being under amped or only just amped enough. Silver has a lower resistance than copper. If you are for example driving a set of 300ohm headphones on an amp which is only rated up to 300ohms (particularly if they're a power hungry set) there won't be enough power to drive them. When you replace the wiring with silver you are going to reduce the total resistance, allowing the headphones to be driven better. This would improve the clarity, which is an often reported silver cable claim. This can also potentially account for a "brighter" sound. This could mean that for some set ups there really is a difference, and other instances are then placebo. Especially if you've listened to a system where it does matter and it has trained your brain to expect the effect. Our standard measurements simply don't look at this. They look at typical well driven cases where the effect doesn't exist.

Does this mean buy silver cables? No, it means get a better amp. But if you can't afford one it could help.

Again I am not saying this an absolute. Just that it's an interesting possibility.

 

[Speedskater]

The differences in resistance between Gold, Silver and Copper are small compared to the probable differences in length and cross-section area of different areas.
 
So if you are for example driving a set of 300ohm headphones on an amp which is only rated up to 300ohms (particularly if they're a power hungry set) there won't be enough current to drive them well. When you replace the wiring with silver you are going to reduce the total resistance, increasing the driving current which is getting to the headphones and causing them to be driven better.
 
This idea is upside down!  300 Ohms is an easier load than 250 Ohms.  Besides the differences between Copper and Silver cables is only a fraction of an Ohm.

 

[yblad]

Quote:

The differences in resistance between Gold, Silver and Copper are small compared to the probable differences in length and cross-section area of different areas.
 
So if you are for example driving a set of 300ohm headphones on an amp which is only rated up to 300ohms (particularly if they're a power hungry set) there won't be enough current to drive them well. When you replace the wiring with silver you are going to reduce the total resistance, increasing the driving current which is getting to the headphones and causing them to be driven better.
 
This idea is upside down!  300 Ohms is an easier load than 250 Ohms.  Besides the differences between Copper and Silver cables is only a fraction of an Ohm.

 
I quite clearly said it's only a possibility. And it depends greatly on length of cable (along with thickness). I never said it will make a huge difference, but it will make a difference which on the very edge of driving ability could (and here again note the word could) give a perceived change in sound.

 
That's not true. Higher impedance headphones are harder to drive (for most small amps). They allow you do exert more control when properly driven, but to properly drive them is harder. It is also the case that many op-amps are optimised for higher loads which mean they are more efficient and produce less distortion, but that doesn't stop them needing to drive harder. If what you're saying is true a mobile phone could drive 600ohm headphones with ease and you'd need a top end dedicated amp to drive EIMs or 16ohm phones. Which is the opposite of the truth.

 
http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance

 
There is a basic review of how it works, note "pros and cons of high impedance" points 3. and 4.

 
I did accidentally write current where I meant power, so I apologise for that. That may have caused some confusion. The important thing is the power output however, and the voltage/current relationship. Although high impedance requires a lower current due to a stronger electromagnet to power said electromagnet takes more voltage. Most portable amps struggle with getting the voltage needed to drive high impedance well. The important point is that high impedance is harder to drive for most amps, and lowering the system impedance will make it easier to drive. Which as I said could make a difference in systems which are on the edge of their capabilities. Please note that I am just speculating on a possibility for certain systems, as I said in the first post I only expect it to possibly make a difference in systems on the edge of their capabilities. Most systems wouldn't be sensitive to this, which is why I stated that if this is where the original idea came from the hearing of a difference in most systems is placebo.
 
I have edited my post in light of the mistake.
 

 

[Happy Camper]

The differences in resistance between Gold, Silver and Copper are small compared to the probable differences in length and cross-section area of different areas.

So if you are for example driving a set of 300ohm headphones on an amp which is only rated up to 300ohms (particularly if they're a power hungry set) there won't be enough current to drive them well. When you replace the wiring with silver you are going to reduce the total resistance, increasing the driving current which is getting to the headphones and causing them to be driven better.

This idea is upside down!  300 Ohms is an easier load than 250 Ohms.  Besides the differences between Copper and Silver cables is only a fraction of an Ohm.

But enough to be heard.

 

[yblad]

The difference in conductivity is about 7% by the way. Not huge but still. I agree that the differences made to the total impedance of the system isn't going to be huge. And as a percentage the difference in total impedance due to the change will drop as the total impedance goes up (i.e. as the impedance of the the headphones climbs). This is why I have said so many times say "could" and "possibly". I have no problem admitting that the effect may or may not be audible. I am just saying that under certain conditions it's a possibility it could make a difference, and once again I will say I am only considering it a possibility in systems which are at the extremes of their abilities.