Audeze SINE Series
May 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM Post #1,171 of 4,783
Ouch. This morning I just got an earful from an animal activist. This girl came to me at a table outside a cafe shop. She asked me what Brand my headphones were. Since the Sines dont have Audeze written on it. I told her it was Audeze Sine. I was thinking she might've liked the design. But she said she believes in Animal Rights and She wants to sue Audeze for harming animals for their leather. I told her the leather is synthetic (though the leather is real I think on external earcups). She said it looks like real leather and that she would get her friends and skin Audeze employees and I should ashamed of supporting such a company.

Anyhow I ignored her and walked off
frown.gif

Crazy people

wow
 
May 16, 2016 at 7:24 PM Post #1,173 of 4,783
While i love to listen to my desktop rig in the evenings, after getting the Sines with the cypher i am not using my desktop as much and now just listen to Iphone/Tidal on my bed before sleeping. I guess I am a bit lazy but love the iphone/cypher pairing.
 
May 16, 2016 at 7:44 PM Post #1,174 of 4,783
I really enjoy them without a Cipher cable. I can only imagine how good they sound with one.  Since I have had the HTC 10, a little more than a week, I have used it almost solely.  The sound is so clear and the phone can drive the SINE. The SINE also sound great with the AK120ii but it does require a lot of volume. 
 
May 16, 2016 at 7:50 PM Post #1,175 of 4,783
I ordered them from RazorDog Audio today. They're selling returns at a reduced price - $359 for the Sine with standard audio cable

I recently purchased a Dragonfly Black and am looking forward to using the 2 together with my iPhone.
 
May 16, 2016 at 8:23 PM Post #1,176 of 4,783
While i love to listen to my desktop rig in the evenings, after getting the Sines with the cypher i am not using my desktop as much and now just listen to Iphone/Tidal on my bed before sleeping. I guess I am a bit lazy but love the iphone/cypher pairing.

I feel that, same thing for me after getting the iDSD Micro. I use my G3 via OTG cable and with the TH 600 I found it really satisfying and pretty transportable for moving around in general.
 
May 16, 2016 at 8:55 PM Post #1,177 of 4,783
  I ordered them from RazorDog Audio today. They're selling returns at a reduced price - $359 for the Sine with standard audio cable

I recently purchased a Dragonfly Black and am looking forward to using the 2 together with my iPhone.

RazorDog is awesome.  Brian will take care of you if you need his assistance. I hope you enjoy them as much as I do.
 
May 16, 2016 at 9:14 PM Post #1,178 of 4,783
While i love to listen to my desktop rig in the evenings, after getting the Sines with the cypher i am not using my desktop as much and now just listen to Iphone/Tidal on my bed before sleeping. I guess I am a bit lazy but love the iphone/cypher pairing.

Totally agree - I was legitimately surprised at how good Sine + Cipher sound. As an Apple guy, I've hit the jackpot in being able to walk around with just one player now -- plugged into my lightning port -- and sounding exactly how I want things to sound.
 
I previously was using the PM-3 + HA-2 combo. Total cost was $700...it was much clunkier to carry around two things strapped together...especially since I use it walking the dogs, so am trying to manage music/volume/etc all with my left hand as my right hand holds the leash of two 60lb dogs...and all told the sound wasn't even that exciting. I returned everything...got Sine + Cipher...got better sounds...saved $200 in the process...and made my task easier. Again, total jackpot.
 
I even think it sounds better with Cipher than it does introducing my Dragonfly Red in the mix. And I LOVE my Red -- I use it nonstop at home w/ my laptop.
 
May 16, 2016 at 11:12 PM Post #1,179 of 4,783
  Totally agree - I was legitimately surprised at how good Sine + Cipher sound. As an Apple guy, I've hit the jackpot in being able to walk around with just one player now -- plugged into my lightning port -- and sounding exactly how I want things to sound.
 
I previously was using the PM-3 + HA-2 combo. Total cost was $700...it was much clunkier to carry around two things strapped together...especially since I use it walking the dogs, so am trying to manage music/volume/etc all with my lefthand as my righthand holds the leash of two 60lb dogs...and all told the sound wasn't even that exciting. I returned everything...got Sine + Cipher...got better sounds...saved $200 in the process...and made my task easier. Again, total jackpot.
 
I even think it sounds better with Cipher than it does introducing my Dragonfly Red in the mix. And I LOVE my Red -- I use it nonstop at home w/ my laptop.

Just wait and see how happy you will be when Audeze stops using stop gap technology like cables and finally goes Bluetooth. Cables are so yesterday, and putting DACs and amps in the cable is still avoiding the real issue for portable use, and that is eliminating unnecessary cables altogether. That is just my opinion of course and I don't pretend everybody will agree. And keep in mind, my opinion is predicated upon the idea that almost nobody in blind listening tests can really tell lossless from 320 sampling, and in addition, portable use for many is less of a critical listening environment so even if there were very small differences, they wouldn't likely matter at the office, or on the bus, or on an airplane.
 
May 16, 2016 at 11:55 PM Post #1,180 of 4,783
An in line dsp and amp what that be firmware upgraded through the lightning connection is not what I'd call a stop gap measure ...

Now, I propose you this instead: wait until Audeze gets funding to work on more advanced dsp technology to improve SQ and / or usability through the cypher cable or otherwise leveraging bidirectional digital connection to the iPhone.

Besides, I understand the push for wireless in case of very compact iems but on-ear / full size headphones? Personally, a flexible, silent cable is all I need for now.
 
May 17, 2016 at 12:37 AM Post #1,181 of 4,783
I ordered a pair from Razordog Audio too! Excellent service.
Question:

I plan on using the regular cable and tidal - will that be enough to make my purchase worthwhile?

The cipher cable will, according to Audeze, cost 149 most likely so that's a bit steep- definitely recommend people on the fence about the cable just fork over the extra 50! You can at a minimum sell it later.

I'm going to try to go sans cipher until I get an iPhone 7 and even then I'm not sure because I charge my phone at work and would rather listen from my computer if possible

Im just concerned I'm missing out bigtime
 
May 17, 2016 at 12:47 AM Post #1,182 of 4,783
Just wait and see how happy you will be when Audeze stops using stop gap technology like cables and finally goes Bluetooth. Cables are so yesterday, and putting DACs and amps in the cable is still avoiding the real issue for portable use, and that is eliminating unnecessary cables altogether. That is just my opinion of course and I don't pretend everybody will agree. And keep in mind, my opinion is predicated upon the idea that almost nobody in blind listening tests can really tell lossless from 320 sampling, and in addition, portable use for many is less of a critical listening environment so even if there were very small differences, they wouldn't likely matter at the office, or on the bus, or on an airplane.


Bluetooth also requires a DAC and Battery. The headphone will become more heavy and bulky.
When I want portability I use my Sine with my Onkyo DP-X1.
When I don't care about portability and just want SQ, I stick my mojo to the Onkyo and that's audio heaven. Even if you cannot blind test the difference of the sampling rates, there is no way someone will ignore the ultra clear sound the mojo provides and the extra volume it provides compared to all other sources I've tried so far...
I really don't think you'll get that with a cypher cable or Bluetooth. Closest to me is chord invent a player with they're audio technology and full touch screen and multi format playback capability.
 
May 17, 2016 at 1:44 AM Post #1,183 of 4,783
Unlike many in this thread, I am a big fan of the PM-3. In fact, I think it's pretty close to a perfect portable. I prefer neutral response headphones and the PM-3s are neutral to a fault. They're easy to drive from an iPhone but sound great out of higher end amps. They're also easy to get balanced cables for, which was great because I have a Pono, a Geek Out V2, and an ALO Rx MkIII-B. I expected to use them as my go to portable cans for a long time.
 
However, my wife has become concerned with me using headphones that cut off too much sound from the environment in the case of emergencies, and because I wear headphones out while walking a lot. So to be respectful to her wishes, I began looking for alternatives to the PM-3. IEMs were obviously out, and I was worried I'd be stuck using earbuds and basically losing the majority of the sound quality I had become accustomed to. However, someone pointed to the Sines as an option, since they're on-ear instead of over ear and have somewhat less isolation than the PM-3. I happened to be near an Apple Store and decided to pick a pair up with the Cypher cable.
 
I've been putting the Sine through its paces and I can see why people prefer it over the PM-3. It has less of a neutral sound, with an ass-kicking bottom end that is palpable but not overwhelming, and with a ton of extension. The bottom end puts the PM-3 to shame. The vocals are a bit recessed compared to the PM-3, but not to an extreme degree. Even more than the sound signature, I noticed an increased clarity and superior instrument separation in the Sine. The PM-3 is great but does exhibit the wall of sound quality that some planars suffer from. The Sine is significantly better in that regard. I'm surprised at how easy it is to pick out each instrument individually but still enjoy the song as a whole. It's not analytical, even though it has qualities that might make it analytic. If there's any downside to this, it's that the wall of sound aspect of the PM-3 gave it a lushness that can be intoxicating, but I think in the end I'd take the increased detail over texture. The Sine also scales up to better gear more than the PM-3, and surprisingly sounds better single ended than the PM-3 does balanced with my Geek Out and ALO (the Pono sounds better with the PM-3 in balanced mode, but that's because the Pono only comes to life in balanced mode, IMO). I do hope that balanced cables for the Sine eventually come out though, because if it sounds this good single-ended, I know it will be even better balanced.
 
Anyway, the other big surprise for me was the Cypher cable. The iPhone actually sounds pretty decent with the PM-3, and although I've used external DACs with the iPhone before, I haven't really found it to be a massive improvement. I expected the Cypher cable to sound roughly the same as if I plugged the Sine into the headphone jack on the phone, slightly better but not completely different. Well, not only does the Cypher cable offer a significant improvement over the iPhone's headphone jack, it may actually sound better than any other amp I've plugged the Sine into! All the best qualities of the Sine are present, but the bottom end is even more present and extended, the imaging becomes almost 3D in its presentation. The Cypher rivals the ALO Rx Mk.III-B amp in presentation, which is no mean feat because the ALO is a really spectacular amp. There's something to be said for having a cable designed for your specific headphones and source. And no, bluetooth cannot match the sound quality on this pairing, especially since Apple hasn't even embraced high quality bluetooth audio yet. I'd say you could use the Cypher cable in place of any external DAC/amp setup for your iPhone and you wouldn't lose sound quality, or the amount of sound quality you'd lose wouldn't justify carrying around brick portable amps and/or portable DAC/amps of various shapes and sizes that have to be attached by the inconvenient camera connector.
 
I'm using Tyll's EQ settings from his Sine review on my iPhone (+1 dB to 500Hz and 1KHz, -5 dB to 16KHz), and I honestly cannot think of a more effective, convenient portable setup. I used to take my Pono with me, running balanced out to my PM-3, or I'd leave the Pono at home and use the ALO with my PM-3, or in a real pinch I'd just go single-ended out straight from my iPhone, at a hit in sound quality. Now I can run straight out from my iPhone and take no hit in SQ, and won't miss having to pocket an extra device or two either. Of course Android users won't get this benefit, so I hope Audeze makes a Cypher cable that terminates in USB so the Cypher cable can be used on other devices. I'll just say, if you have an iPhone, it is absolutely worth the extra $50 for the Cypher cable, especially if you're looking to simplify your portable setup.
 
The only complaint I have about the headphones is the lack of a hard case. I mean, for a $450 pair of headphones, you'd think they could at least include a hard case, especially since they had plenty of room in the needlessly massive box the headphones come in. I shouldn't have to spend an extra $40 on top of the $450-$500 I already spent to get a case that should have been included to begin with.
 
May 17, 2016 at 6:52 AM Post #1,185 of 4,783
  Hi everyone,
I am sort of in the market for a new portable. Have never tried an audeze OR a planar headphone before. I always thought planars needed a hefty amp because they were so difficult to drive?
Greetings, Anouk,


Indeed, that's why I never considered planar and iPhone could go hand in hand but the Sine / Cypher cable combo changed the deal for me. I hate from uber expensive DAPs, bulky amps and other stiff cables to connect them together. A portable rig for me is an iPhone, an iem or now the Sine/Cypher cable, no more...
 
Having said that, I am not sure this phone is god's gift to each and everyone, starting with comfort so you should try them before you buy if any possible.
 
Soundwise, I concur with Merrick's review above, the Sine has thus ability to sound fast, clean, reminiscent of my estat while at the same providing a fun sound signature with clean / tight yet plentiful low end. Really nice surprise for me coming from Audeze.
 
cheers,
arnaud
 

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