[Lunar Eclipse]

English may not be Saljons native language. I read his post as trying to be politely worded. I did not see him state he hated people. It probably is a good idea to take a step back or break for a bit

First, I'm here for Damage Control, now my ears are badly damaged because of a fan.

What else do people wanna make up about me? Anyone else?

I have EXCELLENT hearing, actually. Just as you hate people ragging on those who wanna complain about hiss, I hate people who actually think anyone that doesn't think it's a major issue must have damaged ears or are some Audeze shills.

Goes both ways... just you saying you have no problem with people don't bother you, doesn't make it true.

I have turned off everything in my testing of the hiss later, and found the same result.

Anyways, I'm done with this thread until the majority of the people here have actually received theirs and gave their two cents. Right now it's just back and forth between whining about the hiss. I'll finish up my impressions whenever I get to it, and hope to see more and more people put in their thoughts.

 

[Saljon]

@Mad Lust Envy
Maybe I'm misremebering but didn't you say so yourself? I didn't want to misrepresent you.

English may not be Salijons native language. I read his post as trying to be politely worded. I did not see him state he hated people. It probably is a good idea to take a step back or break for a bit

It's indeed not my native tounge.
Anyway I didn't mean to offend anyone! I definitely didn't mean to say I would hate someone. I cannot even see where you(MLE) get that from, I don't see that in my post. I always wanted to retain good vibes between everyone in this thread.
Again: Sorry for any misunderstandings that might have been a result of my post.

 

[VSENSES]

Like I said, NO company talks about HISS in their FAQs or otherwise. It's something to be somewhatr expected of wireless technology. If you don't expect a possibility of hiss, then you haven't done homework on wireless audio. Simple as that. No company is gonna go "BTW LOL GYEZ, THERE IS SOME HISS/BACKGROUND NOISE, SO BE AWARE." That's not how you sell a product. You don't see McD's go "BTW GUYS, YOU MAY GET FAT FROM HAMBURGERS"

Marketing focuses on positives. I mean, that's just common sense.

You say a lot of good stuff no doubt, but now you're kinda wrong. We're not talking marketing, we're talking fine print. Of course they wont have a big picture in the main marketing saying WE HAVE HISS WOO, but things like this should really be in the *fine print part in the specifications or something. I don't know how it is in the US, but in the free world of Europe McD and every other place actually tells you you'll get fat if you over eat their food. It's in the fine print nutrition list. Sure they might not say fat, but if you understand it you know it says fat.

But that's nitpicking. Point is, there's a difference between marketing and fine print.

 

[Mkoll]

Like I said, NO company talks about HISS in their FAQs or otherwise. It's something to be somewhatr expected of wireless technology. If you don't expect a possibility of hiss, then you haven't done homework on wireless audio. Simple as that. No company is gonna go "BTW LOL GYEZ, THERE IS SOME HISS/BACKGROUND NOISE, SO BE AWARE." That's not how you sell a product. You don't see McD's go "BTW GUYS, YOU MAY GET FAT FROM HAMBURGERS"

Marketing focuses on positives. I mean, that's just common sense.

Yet there are many wireless headphones without hiss, like my Sennheiser PXC 550 with ANC off. And in paying a comparably large sum of money for headphones with bleeding edge technology from a reputable company like Audeze, I expect no less.

 

[antdroid]

Why don't we wait until we have more units in people's hands to get a bigger sample size on the severity of this hiss issue? Until that comes, we're just going to hear people argue who havent listened to it yet, and the same arguments from the 4 or 5 people who have one in hand. Seems like a waste of time to me.

Also, people keep mentioning this is a expensive headphone and it has hissing. ANC headphones are in the same price range. They all exhibit some hissing. Please dont forget that and many, many consumers who buy headphones over the cheap stuff are getting these ANC headphones from Bose and Sony and the like. Those are all in the $350-500 range depending on brand and model. That's in the same ballpark as the Mobius.

ANC off and BT on is just a simple BT module with a basic amp and wireless antenna. When the ANC is on, theres more circuitry active -- I imagine that the Mobius has the same amount or even more active circuitry in it as when ANC is active on those headphones.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing these for myself (#217). I'm excited!

 

[RMA192AK]

Like I said, NO company talks about HISS in their FAQs or otherwise. It's something to be somewhatr expected of wireless technology. If you don't expect a possibility of hiss, then you haven't done homework on wireless audio. Simple as that. No company is gonna go "BTW LOL GYEZ, THERE IS SOME HISS/BACKGROUND NOISE, SO BE AWARE." That's not how you sell a product. You don't see McD's go "BTW GUYS, YOU MAY GET FAT FROM HAMBURGERS"

Marketing focuses on positives. I mean, that's just common sense.

We didn't say to put it in the main marketing or FAQ's, I said to put it in the Warnings/Disclosure area at the bottom of the webpage, which most people don't read. It's not a marketing issue, it's a cover you customer support reps issue so they can say when people are calling them about it, that they were warned. All products have Warnings and Disclosures for known issues people might have with them. Have you looked at the Mobius's manual? The one I looked at posted online somewhere a while back (so it might not be the final version) page 2 is a long list of "Warnings/Cautions".

I only say this as a friendly piece of advice for Audeze for in the future when this is bigger in retail stores, etc.. going to people who don't know anything about this site that might have a problem with them, that's it. I didn't say to put it front and center in there Marketing materials at all. My degrees are in business, so I'm not stupid on this matter and yes I changed from marketing to accounting in school because of all the stupid crap marketing people do to get people to buy a product, it wasn't for me.


Edit: I think I will step away from my keyboard too, this thread has gotten quite heated the past few days, I admit I can speak very directly which can be taken as being angry/hostile, I'm not, that's never my intention. There are people from all over the world on here, so language/culture can sometimes be an issue interpreting peoples statements, but I think open discussion is always a good thing, sometimes emotions can get the best of us though.

 

[Mkoll]

Also, people keep mentioning this is a expensive headphone and it has hissing. ANC headphones are in the same price range. They all exhibit some hissing.

Yes, when ANC is active. It's just part of the technology which as far as I understand tries to generate opposing frequencies to external noises which cancels them out. It makes sense that this would generate noise because that's exactly what it's doing!

On the other hand, there's no reason why wireless headphones per se should inherently have audible noise. Again, my PXC 550 has none with ANC off and bluetooth enabled and connected.

 

[RamSpencer]

I'm glad that Audeze is doing further testing. I think I'll be will comfortable with the intended noise floor in practical use. With the adjustment of swapping out some parts, it's possible that on at least some of the units, perhaps the noise floor went up higher. I'm glad they're checking into it. If the noise floor is comparable to a high quality pair of noise cancellation headphones and disappears for all practical purposes during use. That's the kind of thing that a non OCD mind easily adjusts to during the silent passages.

 

[antdroid]

Yes, when ANC is active. It's just part of the technology which as far as I understand tries to generate opposing frequencies to external noises which cancels them out. It makes sense that this would generate noise because that's exactly what it's doing!

On the other hand, there's no reason why wireless headphones per se should inherently have audible noise. Again, my PXC 550 has none with ANC off and bluetooth enabled and connected.

True. I agree. My point, probably poorly worded was also that people pay a premium for ANC when it hisses a little bit. I have a couple pairs and I can hear the faint hiss when there's no active music/audio playing. It's not the end of the world. I am assuming these are in the same ballpark for noise. My other point was that electronic RF interference is very possible especially with a lot of circuitry active in a small space. Shielding is expensive and heavy. There was probably some compromise taken.

 

[kenyee]

And if it's an unintended feature, what is the layman's explanation of why it's present?

There are too many things that can cause hiss/noise....bad grounding, noise from other chips, bad power supply so it doesn't handle power surge requirements from various parts...those are some causes.
The actual music signal is small compared to how much power is needed to make the drivers move. Everything gets amplified up, so if you have any noise, it also gets amplified. You see that w/ preamps and amps if you have separates for your stereo. E.g., I have a classe preamp that has some hiss...can't hear it when music is playing, but if you stick your head next speakers w/o input, you can hear it.

Debugging the cause of noise is a huge PITA for engineers...usually involves shielding as mentioned earlier, better grounding, better power supply, or better components that don't contribute as much noise...

No one designs this stuff in intentionally...and usually when you get the first prototypes in, you do measurements and try to fix stuff. Doing another spin of a board or chip is realllly expensive and time consuming (though not as much nowadays as it used to). And it makes for late nights if you screw up too...because schedules

Hope that helps...

 

[JazzJackRabbit]

Also, people keep mentioning this is a expensive headphone and it has hissing. ANC headphones are in the same price range. They all exhibit some hissing. Please dont forget that and many, many consumers who buy headphones over the cheap stuff are getting these ANC headphones from Bose and Sony and the like. Those are all in the $350-500 range depending on brand and model. That's in the same ballpark as the Mobius.

ANC off and BT on is just a simple BT module with a basic amp and wireless antenna. When the ANC is on, theres more circuitry active -- I imagine that the Mobius has the same amount or even more active circuitry in it as when ANC is active on those headphones.

ANC white noise is not due to the circuitry. It's due to microphones doing their work and picking up outside sounds that need to be cancelled out. The cancellation is never going to be perfect, hence the white noise when ANC is active. As many pointed out if you turn off ANC (thereby turning off microphones) the white noise goes away. Since Mobius is not an Active Noise Cancelling headphone, there is no reason it should have white noise present.

True. I agree. My point, probably poorly worded was also that people pay a premium for ANC when it hisses a little bit. I have a couple pairs and I can hear the faint hiss when there's no active music/audio playing. It's not the end of the world. I am assuming these are in the same ballpark for noise. My other point was that electronic RF interference is very possible especially with a lot of circuitry active in a small space. Shielding is expensive and heavy. There was probably some compromise taken.

It's possible there is RF interference. However, Mobius has white noise even in wired mode when all the RF wireless circuitry should be disabled. So it can't be RF interference. And if shielding is the answer, we're not talking about shielding a microwave, we're talking about shielding a piece of PCB that is 100mm x 100mm tops, the shielding is going to be inexpensive and would only weigh a couple of ounces at the most, the added weight is going to be insignificant.

IMO while I haven't heard Mobius yet so I cannot tell just how loud and annoying the Mobius noise floor is, there really shouldn't be any background white noise.

 

[sahmen]

Okay guys, because of conflicting reports about how benign or annoying the hissing noise is, I thought it would be useful to have a roughly objective measuring tool which will, hopefully, provide some common ground to enable us all compare what those who have the mobius in hand are hearing.

If the owners with the mobius are willing to participate and identify the sound, as they hear it, from the range of sound effect specimens provided in the video below, identify the specimen that is closest in likeness, tonality, and intensity to what they're hearing on the mobius when it is powered on but not playing anything, that might help us to determine whether there's some variance in the noise, or whether everyone is hearing the same thing.

That could also help each of us access our own possible tolerance to the sound...:

Again, just indicate the sound on the video that is closest to the noise on Mobius, by indicating its exact spot on the time line of the video:

The sound/noise effects are grouped into six categories with each category indicated by time-slots below

1. Buzzes and Hums: 0:58 - 3:18 mins
2. Crackles and Static 3:19 - 4:24 mins
3. Designed Sounds . 4:25 - 7:32 mins
4. Hissing and Eerie effects . 7:33 - 8:55 mins
5. Machinery sound effects . 8:56 - 12:05 mins
6. Whirring (or whirr-like) effects 12:06 mins -- end

Now taking a wild guess without having ever heard the Mobius before, I am thinking Categories 1, 4, and 6 are likely the most interesting for this kind of experiment. Some of the designed sounds in category 3 too could be interesting, but I am really shooting in the dark here... Still I hope this little experiment , if it works, could be somewhat useful in helping us specify and talk about the noise in a more constructive and productive way...


General Warning: The majority of the sound samples are not appropriate for the experiment, because they are not close enough to headphone speaker noise to be useful for it... Actually, some of them my too boring and annoying to your ears.

However, if you're willing to move the progress bar manually, the following specific slots may be interesting.


1. 2:13, 2. 2:50, 3. 3:06,
4. 3:51, 5. 4:58, 6. 7:04,
7. 7:52, 8. 8:03, 9. 8:09,
10. 8:51, 11. 12:09, 12. 12:20,
13. 12:41, 14. 13: 42 15. 14:14,
16. 14:50, 17. 15:08, 18. 15:15

 

[EdmontonCanuck]

Okay guys, because of conflicting reports about how benign or annoying the hissing noise is, I thought it would be useful to have a roughly objective measuring tool which will, hopefully, provide some common ground to enable us all compare what those who have the mobius in hand are hearing.

If the owners with the mobius are willing to participate and identify the sound, as they hear it, from the range of sound effect specimens provided in the video below, identify the specimen that is closest in likeness, tonality, and intensity to what they're hearing on the mobius when it is powered on but not playing anything, that might help us to determine whether there's some variance in the noise, or whether everyone is hearing the same thing.

That could also help each of us access our own possible tolerance to the sound...:

Again, just indicate the sound on the video that is closest to the noise on Mobius, by indicating its exact spot on the time line of the video:

The sound/noise effects are grouped into six categories with each category indicated by time-slots below

1. Buzzes and Hums: 0:58 - 3:18 mins
2. Crackles and Static 3:19 - 4:24 mins
3. Designed Sounds . 4:25 - 7:32 mins
4. Hissing and Eerie effects . 7:33 - 8:55 mins
5. Machinery sound effects . 8:56 - 12:05 mins
6. Whirring (or whirr-like) effects 12:06 mins -- end

Now taking a wild guess without having ever heard the Mobius before, I am thinking Categories 1, 4, and 6 are likely the most interesting for this kind of experiment. Some of the designed sounds in category 3 too could be interesting, but I am really shooting in the dark here... Still I hope this little experiment , if it works, could be somewhat useful in helping us specify and talk about the noise in a more constructive and productive way...

If my Mobius sounded like any of those sounds they'd already be in the garbage. That was 17 minutes of my life I will never get back.

 

[Narris]

I do get that the people with them are just trying to give details as best they can and thanks to everyone that has put in the effort so far. Your voices are what helps get the best product possible into everyone's hands at the end of this. Please keep it up and don't stop, be vocal about any software issues you see as well! Been reading every post for months.

I care deeply about my music, but I also care even more about gaming. These are marketed as a gaming and entertainment headset; if I'm in wired mode and hear a hiss at any level, this would be considered a bad buy. -No matter what price point- If you think gamers don't care, you're wrong, having been in and around the industry for over 20 years. They don't care about excuses just about the quality of the experience with the hardware (they are far more forgiving on the software side) and if I'm in a game listening for footsteps, I do not want white noise from my headset making me second guess anything. I do understand the different aspects of a hiss in headsets, we don't need to get nuanced to discuss the pros and cons for different levels of gaming down the road.

Some even have headsets/hardware combos just for certain types of gaming because we are also in a current generation of poorly designed sound engines. Fairly sure everyone can agree on the point there is a wide range of interests and usage cases out there this headset. Just the fact both stereo and multi channel are included as a switch/feature is important for a subset of gamers that nobody really has talked about due to how games implement their stereo or 3d sound.

There shouldn't be an excuse at this price point. Doesn't matter on the tech from a gaming perspective. I also don't think their original intent was to have any hiss obviously.

The reviews so far are not gaming reviews; playing a few hours of your favorite game doesn't count as a review when they give nothing in details to compare with a competitors gaming headset. These kind of details wont be around for awhile. We'll just be getting 'specific' interest focus topics on the headset for awhile. Which should be encouraged, not discouraged because it's up to the reader to filter opinion.

Any white noise I hear should be the results of the sound design done purposely in the game. How can anyone think to master sound with any device they use which also generates even a slight white noise? No matter where things fall as a result, if it's still there I don't see it as a positive. People flipping out about it is because they have an expectation is normal, blaming people for having this reaction is a bit much. Audeze did great in stopping shipments before issues got out of hand waited the correct amount of time and let the active communities know.

Audeze will do their best and most that have purchased will live with the results, but if the end consensus is a hiss, their slice of the huge gaming headset market will be much less and might even decrease an outsiders view of the brand's overall quality and hinder future sales. We all know Audeze is great but there is a plastic army of competitors with $15 dollar dynamics and LEDs making a killing and NEED to be dethroned. The after effect of having any negative kind of perception in the minds of the people hurts and can only change with time, marketing, and even more money.

Having backed my share of things, worked on gaming specific hardware in the past. It's EXTREMELY rare to see a small hardware run like this paused at the end just to look into issues. I can't even recall in memory a time any company has done this except with toys and choking/fire hazards. It's not a cheap or easy thing to do but neither is recalling and fixing all the headsets after the fact when you look at brand impact. This kind of move should be praised and noticed with how quick the response was. Not only that but the delays they've had are extremely short compared to other products coming out of china when issues crop up for the same kind of physical unit numbers. Well done there, it's not an easy navigation and for a first time, great work; your next one will be sooo much smoother. @Audeze You've also been very transparent and honest with these details, more so than a lot of other companies out there. I'm just a nobody typing on the internet, but these kinda logistics and the level of honest detail you gave through the campaign are a lesson others should follow. Please after the dust settles consider doing a post mortem talk or interview somewhere.

Bluetooth + ldac was a nice bonus and will pair great with my Shanling M0, but not if the end result gets this hiss in all other modes. I don't have it on the $200 dollar wired gaming headsets. I see 0 reason or excuse for it to be there on a $400. I think others in the gaming community will react the same.

Cheers everyone, I'll go back to lurking. Love being here tho. -edits for spelling-

 

[sahmen]

If my Mobius sounded like any of those sounds they'd already be in the garbage. That was 17 minutes of my life I will never get back.

Hehehe... Okay agreed, the majority of the sound effect samples are inappropriate for this experiment, and maybe even annoying. But there are indeed some sound samples in there that might be useful, although, this being the internet and all, the exercise might take the kind of patience that many readers might not be willing to give it, and that is okay too.''

At any rate, for what it's worth, I have gone through the recording and selected the Sample/spots that come closest to headphone/speaker noise sounds, for those who have the time or patience to participate.,

And to you sir, accept my apologies for those 17 minutes of your life... Incidentally, I've added additional warnings and advisories to caution and ward off any possible future victims or casualties...