[KaiSc]

Yes, I see the changes as I switch between the modes. The thing I am looking for is the change from 48khz to 44.1khz and 16bit to 24bit etc.
It seems you are not allowed to choose specifics.

I don't get where and why you want to change the sample rate. Please explain.

Mobius works (within it's limits depending on the selected mode 7.1, 2Ch and HiRes) with any sample rate it's provided from the host (the audio player).
The host usually selects the sample rate according to the file or stream it's working with, to avoid lossy sample rate conversion or wrong playback speed.
Only professional audio software like a DAW for audio recording and production let's you select the SR manually.

Playback sample rate of an existing file is not a "the bigger the better" situation. You gain no extra information when playing back a file with a higher sample rate then it's recorded, instead you have to face losses caused by the conversion.

For bit depth the situation is different, the extra dynamic range of 24 bit is welcome, as volume changes are made in the digital domain, even 16 bit files benefit from the higher bit depth.

 

[KaiSc]

Beta firmware 2018-09-26 report:


When switching modes - 2CH, HiRes, 7.1 while connected to the iPhone the head dimensional- and ambience settings can get lost and reset to default.


Volume level steps connected to iPhone are a bit coarse in the healthy range (at about 60% of iPhone's volume scale).


Obvious Bug: All Gaming-EQ-Presets are still L/R off-centered (3D off).


There is a global driver imbalance that seems to affect all units.
It's caused by different acoustic properties of left and right cup, where the leakages through the controls on the left side have different effect than the damped openings on the right cup.
The right side shows shelving down response from 1kHz down to 20Hz of about 4dB.
This can be found in my own measurements of 2 Mobius and same amount, for example, even in the measurements of rtings.com:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#689/2031
Should be fixed by a firmware change, adding a compensating EQ based on measurements of a representative amount of specimen.


Headtracking strenght: I have correctly calibrated my head size with the AUDEZE HQ App, this listening test is with "3D Manual" setting, mono signal into USB:
The headtracking effect is about 2 times too strong in the front +/-60° circle.
Small head turns move the center image about the turning angle to the opposite side instead of keeping it located at the former front/center position.
Once I turn myself further the virtual source locates correctly in the back half-circle angles.
Seems L+R virtual speakers are located too far outside (> +/-30°)
There's hardly a difference in placement between L+R and Lss+Rss virtual speakers.
Editing the speaker placement should be allowed in the AUDEZE HQ app, like in the Waves NX software.


There should be a global L/R balance control to deal with problems like off centered sources, driver imbalance and personal hearing irregularities etc.
System supplied controls are usually too coarse (iPhone) or nonexistent.


When charging is off (long press volume wheel) Mobius works without problems on iPhone with both versions of Apple lightning to USB-A camera connector (1st version without, and 2nd version with additional lightning power supply input).
Charge current is at the edge of what the iPhone allows and can make the connection unstable, should be lowered by 10%.
This is worsened by the supplied USB-A to USB-C cable that does not make good contact to the Apple CCK.


AUDEZE HQ should be available on iPhone too.


The "Warm" EQ does what it's named like, but still we need a preset with a bit more "LF punch", correction of the 2dB peak at 3kHz and a bit more "air".

The order of the EQ presets is strange - Default, Flat, Music and Warm should be adjacent and the gaming presets should follow.

In future there should be an (un-)limited number of custom EQ user presets, at least like with Cipher.


EDIT: switching from 7.1 or 2-Ch to HiRes and back confuses the DSP, so the equalizer curves are no longer what they are meant to be. Changing the EQ preset resets this to the correct curves.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

For bit depth the situation is different, the extra dynamic range of 24 bit is welcome, as volume changes are made in the digital domain, even 16 bit files benefit from the higher bit depth.

I may be completely wrong here, but, please help me understand further:

This is what I'm under the impression on choosing hi-res on the Mobius even for 16 bit audio.

I use Hi-Res as a means to go into non 3D stereo easily, without messing with the 7.1/2.1 presets. Untouched signal without extra processing, as they say.

From what I've gathered, (And I have done this for nearly a decade now), is I leave my PC at 24/96 depending on DAC. I even have a DAC that does 32/384. Whatever is 16 bit/44/48, doesn't lose information. It just adds more 0s that aren't doing anything. However, like you said, as volume is digital in this area, you would lose bit depth at 16bit, but you don't lose it if the 16 bit file is in a 24bit 'world' per se.

This isn't a problem when attaching an external amp, but my last few many devices have all been digital volume controlled dac/amps, and I wouldn't want to lose bit depth by lowering volume with them.

Am I incorrect to assume this? This is what I've heard for years. And if it wasn't, WHY are there so many dacs that allow 24 and 32bit, even when you don't have those kind of files? It's not like changing from 16 to 24/32 down to 16 is a simple matter in Windows. I highly doubt people are sitting in their control panel constantly changing that setting depending on what they're listening to. I leave it at 24/96, and forget about it. No glitches, perfectly sounding audio regardless of what it is, etc. I certainly don't have the patience to constantly switch this setting in the control panel if and when file rate changes.

I have NEVER had an issue leaving the device at 24bit/96khz or with the Creative G6, 32bit/384khz (well, other than them needing to fix some glitches, which they did). The 16 bit file is still unaltered in the original 16 bit space. I would understand if someone is convert a 16 bit file to 24bit. How that could cause problems. But in my case, playback of the file is 16bit. Just in a 24 bit filter?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Audeze, a simpler question would be, is there ANY legitimate negatives to using hi-res preset even with none hi-res content? ANd, is there any reason to not use 24/96 in the windows sound panel at all times through the Mobius USB?

 

[KaiSc]

I may be completely wrong here, but, please help me understand further:

This is what I'm under the impression on choosing hi-res on the Mobius even for 16 bit audio.

I use Hi-Res as a means to go into non 3D stereo easily, without messing with the 7.1/2.1 presets. Untouched signal without extra processing, as they say.

From what I've gathered, (And I have done this for nearly a decade now), is I leave my PC at 24/96 depending on DAC. I even have a DAC that does 32/384. Whatever is 16 bit/44/48, doesn't lose information. It just adds more 0s that aren't doing anything. However, like you said, as volume is digital in this area, you would lose bit depth at 16bit, but you don't lose it if the 16 bit file is in a 24bit 'world' per se.

This isn't a problem when attaching an external amp, but my last few many devices have all been digital volume controlled dac/amps, and I wouldn't want to lose bit depth by lowering volume with them.

Am I incorrect to assume this? This is what I've heard for years. And if it wasn't, WHY are there so many dacs that allow 24 and 32bit, even when you don't have those kind of files? It's not like changing from 16 to 24/32 down to 16 is a simple matter in Windows. I highly doubt people are sitting in their control panel constantly changing that setting depending on what they're listening to. I leave it at 24/96, and forget about it. No glitches, perfectly sounding audio regardless of what it is, etc. I certainly don't have the patience to constantly switch this setting in the control panel if and when file rate changes.

I have NEVER had an issue leaving the device at 24bit/96khz or with the Creative G6, 32bit/384khz (well, other than them needing to fix some glitches, which they did). The 16 bit file is still unaltered in the original 16 bit space. I would understand if someone is convert a 16 bit file to 24bit. How that could cause problems. But in my case, playback of the file is 16bit. Just in a 24 bit filter?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Audeze, a simpler question would be, is there ANY legitimate negatives to using hi-res preset even with none hi-res content? ANd, is there any reason to not use 24/96 in the windows sound panel at all times through the Mobius USB?

If 96kHz only defines the upper limit and the communication between PC and DAC automatically selects the correct sample rate according to the file or stream played your assumption is correct.
If the setting forces the whole communication between PC and DAC into 96kHz even if 44.1kHz files or streams are played at 96kHz there must be some lossy sample rate conversion involved.

As mentioned, a higher bit depth never hurts, it improves things.
As soon as digital level control is used, the bits are recalculated. This means the higher bit rate can save the audio information more precise then if you stay at, e.g. 16bit communication (Mobius 2-Ch mode e.g.)

 

[overhaze]

Some observations running the beta firmware. Even after measuring my head the virtual speakers just don't sound right. When I turn my head I am not heading two speakers moving naturally I'm hearing two speakers sliding to the side. In virtual 7.1 there isn't enough distinction between the rear and side speakers. There is no nice way to say it, I have bat ears. They stick forward rather than laying flat against my head (pretty common here Ireland in fairness) When measuring my Inter-aural arc should I be smushing them flat against my head or should I be talking there forward protrusion into account with the measurements? Its the only thing I can think of that I might be doing wrong.

Also I seem to have a crackle in the right earcup. The song that shows it up the best is Rest my Chemistry by Interpol. Could someone on here give it a listen and tell me if they are hearing the same thing?

 

[Zenvota]

I don't get where and why you want to change the sample rate. Please explain.

Mobius works (within it's limits depending on the selected mode 7.1, 2Ch and HiRes) with any sample rate it's provided from the host (the audio player).
The host usually selects the sample rate according to the file or stream it's working with, to avoid lossy sample rate conversion or wrong playback speed.
Only professional audio software like a DAW for audio recording and production let's you select the SR manually.

Playback sample rate of an existing file is not a "the bigger the better" situation. You gain no extra information when playing back a file with a higher sample rate then it's recorded, instead you have to face losses caused by the conversion.

For bit depth the situation is different, the extra dynamic range of 24 bit is welcome, as volume changes are made in the digital domain, even 16 bit files benefit from the higher bit depth.

I may be completely wrong here, but, please help me understand further:

This is what I'm under the impression on choosing hi-res on the Mobius even for 16 bit audio.

I use Hi-Res as a means to go into non 3D stereo easily, without messing with the 7.1/2.1 presets. Untouched signal without extra processing, as they say.

From what I've gathered, (And I have done this for nearly a decade now), is I leave my PC at 24/96 depending on DAC. I even have a DAC that does 32/384. Whatever is 16 bit/44/48, doesn't lose information. It just adds more 0s that aren't doing anything. However, like you said, as volume is digital in this area, you would lose bit depth at 16bit, but you don't lose it if the 16 bit file is in a 24bit 'world' per se.

This isn't a problem when attaching an external amp, but my last few many devices have all been digital volume controlled dac/amps, and I wouldn't want to lose bit depth by lowering volume with them.

Am I incorrect to assume this? This is what I've heard for years. And if it wasn't, WHY are there so many dacs that allow 24 and 32bit, even when you don't have those kind of files? It's not like changing from 16 to 24/32 down to 16 is a simple matter in Windows. I highly doubt people are sitting in their control panel constantly changing that setting depending on what they're listening to. I leave it at 24/96, and forget about it. No glitches, perfectly sounding audio regardless of what it is, etc. I certainly don't have the patience to constantly switch this setting in the control panel if and when file rate changes.

I have NEVER had an issue leaving the device at 24bit/96khz or with the Creative G6, 32bit/384khz (well, other than them needing to fix some glitches, which they did). The 16 bit file is still unaltered in the original 16 bit space. I would understand if someone is convert a 16 bit file to 24bit. How that could cause problems. But in my case, playback of the file is 16bit. Just in a 24 bit filter?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Audeze, a simpler question would be, is there ANY legitimate negatives to using hi-res preset even with none hi-res content? ANd, is there any reason to not use 24/96 in the windows sound panel at all times through the Mobius USB?

If 96kHz only defines the upper limit and the communication between PC and DAC automatically selects the correct sample rate according to the file or stream played your assumption is correct.
If the setting forces the whole communication between PC and DAC into 96kHz even if 44.1kHz files or streams are played at 96kHz there must be some lossy sample rate conversion involved.

As mentioned, a higher bit depth never hurts, it improves things.
As soon as digital level control is used, the bits are recalculated. This means the higher bit rate can save the audio information more precise then if you stay at, e.g. 16bit communication (Mobius 2-Ch mode e.g.)

Thanks for discussing this guys, I've always wondered about this. I was under the impression that, like KaiSc said, using the incorrect sample rate has a negative effect, and that lowering the volume in the digital realm also has negative effects. I wasn't aware that using a higher bit depth was beneficial though.

I've been doing this anyway due to Out of Your Head does its processing at 32bit/48khz, so I just set my dacs to that. And with the mobius in bluetooth I've been setting to 16/44 for 3d(24 isnt supported in 2d mode anyway?). This information on bit depth kind of negates the benefits of wasapi and asio doesn't it though? You'd almost always want to be in 32bit/44khz, unless you have an amplifier with a relay based volume control.

 

[Zenvota]

. I highly doubt people are sitting in their control panel constantly changing that setting depending on what they're listening to.

Heh, ya! You've heard the term bit perfect haven't you? If using an eq or something you cant use wasapi so you gotta change it manually lol not something i do frequently but definately guilt of it. But in that instance, windows and player volume stay at 100% and the amp has a relay based volume.

 

[overhaze]

Is there anything I should know before I pick up a longer type C cable? I understand it can have issues???

 

[elira]

Is there anything I should know before I pick up a longer type C cable? I understand it can have issues???

Just get a high quality one, and a reasonable length.

 

[Zenvota]

Is there anything I should know before I pick up a longer type C cable? I understand it can have issues???

Active if 10'+

 

[MICHAELSD]

Received my re-worked unit and absolutely love it. Hiss has been significantly reduced and is virtually inaudible. The drivers are simply too high-resolution and transparent to have a totally silent noise floor. Without the hiss I believe music sounds even better and is on par with the EL-8 and Sine with a sound signature of its own that may actually be better. The sound is less fatiguing than the EL-8 and Mobius is significantly more comfortable. Actually this may now be Audeze’s most enjoyable headphone I’ve used.

Also, the retail packaging experience is super premium. It definitely matches its price and I think even if somebody were to purchase Mobius as a $399 Bluetooth headphone they would be happy but then they also get the virtualization that makes Mobius the ultimate multimedia headphone.

- 100mm planar magnetic drivers
- Bluetooth 5.0 chipset* with AAC and LDAC
- Excellent comfort with a durable design
- World’s most advanced head-tracking
- Incredible virtualized surround sound

Mobius represents Audeze’s best value proposition and is dangerously close to being their best headphone.

 

[Avaeryn]

Received my re-worked unit and absolutely love it. Hiss has been significantly reduced and is virtually inaudible. The drivers are simply too high-resolution and transparent to have a totally silent noise floor. Without the hiss I believe music sounds even better and is on par with the EL-8 and Sine with a sound signature of its own. The sound is less fatiguing than the EL-8 and Mobius is significantly more comfortable. Actually this may now be Audeze’s most enjoyable headphone I’ve used.

Also, the retail packaging experience is super premium. It definitely matches its price and I think even if somebody were to purchase Mobius as a $399 Bluetooth headphone they would be happy.

- 100mm planar magnetic drivers
- Bluetooth 5.0 with AAC and LDAC
- Excellent comfort with a durable design
- World’s most advanced head-tracking
- Best virtualized surround sound

Mobius represents Audeze’s best value proposition and is dangerously close to being their best headphone.

Does the retail variant have bluetooth 5.0? I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the IGG version does not.

Also was this a "re-work" after the initial batch that was recalled? I had inquired about this due to a rather persistent hiss but got a rather "we likely won't actually do anything so you might not want to ship it to us" response. It was heavily implied that my unit was perfectly fine (its not) and that they'd likely find no fault and I'd be out the shipping cost so I may as well not bother sending it in. It was a very disheartening response.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Does the retail variant have bluetooth 5.0? I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the IGG version does not.

Also was this a "re-work" after the initial batch that was recalled? I had inquired about this due to a rather persistent hiss but got a rather "we likely won't actually do anything so you might not want to ship it to us" response. It was heavily implied that my unit was perfectly fine (its not) and that they'd likely find no fault and I'd be out the shipping cost so I may as well not bother sending it in. It was a very disheartening response.

The chipset technically supports Bluetooth 5.0, actually Audeze doesn’t advertise that but I see benefits in range with my Bluetooth 5.0 devices.

This was the one and only re-work.

 

[Avaeryn]

The chipset technically supports Bluetooth 5.0, actually Audeze doesn’t advertise that but I see benefits in range with my Bluetooth 5.0 devices.

This was the one and only re-work.

Very interesting. Didn't know it had 5.0. Good to know.

Were all the re-worked units sent in retail packaging? Mine certainly wasn't... maybe that's why I'm still hearing a persistent hiss?

 

[elira]

Very interesting. Didn't know it had 5.0. Good to know.

Were all the re-worked units sent in retail packaging? Mine certainly wasn't... maybe that's why I'm still hearing a persistent hiss?

Indiegogo units don't have the retail packaging because of the travel case. They said something about it not fitting inside the box.