[jlbrach]

keep these ads elsewhere,this is a discussion forums

 

[kernel8888]

 

[lithiumnk]

keep these ads elsewhere,this is a discussion forums

I don't find anything wrong with the post.
When utopia were on sale (1000$ off) ... it was all over head-fi .
What about the black friday sale?

 

[whitemouse]

Hi guys and girls,

I'm thinking of ordering LCD i4, read all the posts in this thread.

I use Isine 20 every day, usually driven by Onkyo X1 dap, with balanced cable to get most out of Onkyo dap.

I've listened to isine 10, of course, before deciding to buy any Isine, and 20 is clearly better, the 'airyness', ''openess', words that really mean one thing, isine 20 distortion is lower than already low isine 10. Probably due to lighter membrane, lower Moving Mass will always result in lower distortion figures, given the the driver, the moving element is well controlled, as close to moving piston as possible.

I have never listened to i4, no store that I always visit in Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok have lcdi4 on display. These stores do have just about everything else under the sun available to audition. So my purchase of Audeze i4 will be blindly trusting reviews, and user opinions.

I would really like i4 owner's opinion where do they place i4, and how do i4 compare to lower end isine lineup. Compared to isine 20, is the output of i4 magnitude better, are the LCD i4 better in similar scale, as the isine 20 are better than 10?

Or is the difference something that I have to convince myself to believe, afterall, after spending $2500 USD, I doubt I'd be man enough to admit that i4 are simply isine 20 in drag, Isines in Magnesium body, and I made a costly mistake.

Of course not, instead I'd be 'upgrading' cables, post questions about silver content in my latest purchase of a Silver plated Copper cable, I'd tell the whole world that I couldn't get sibilants 'right' until I bought yet another cable, this time with 8 percent Silver content. 'I tried every EQ setting, but couldn't make it sound 'right'! 'Only after buying another Silver plated Copper cable, did everything fall into its place.' I'm not making this up, there are actual posts like this, word to word at Isines thread. Makes humourous read on a rainy afternoon.

Only Audeze knows the real differences between isine 10, 20, and LCD i4. At $2500 retail, I would expect a bit more technical background about what makes LCD i4 cost 4 times the price of isine 20. To many, $2500 is no big deal, to me it is a big deal, in a sense that I don't want to be taken on a ride. I'd like to learn what makes i4 cost 4 times the price of idine 20. The membrane is thinner, that means Moving Mass is thinner, that is unquestionably a major benefit, electrostatics are super low in distortion thanks to extremely low Moving Mass, low MM results in accurate control of the membrane, membrane moves due to electrical signal, and stops moving after signal ends. It won't wobble on its own, like many dynamic drivers do.

Do we know Moving Mass of LCD i4' membrane, compared to Isine series? This would be moot point, if LCDi4 were available for auditioning, but I can't find a place in Asia where to give them a try. So numbers are all im going by.


Often the flagships are nothing more than exquisitely packaged next in line product. OPPO PM -1 is a good example. Grado GS is another good example, driver if RS-1 in larger Managing body, and larger foam pads. Everybody knows, the true difference is the $30 large foam pads of the 1000 series. Put the large pads of 1000 series onto PS-500, and you'll have the sound of PS 1000, with savings around $1000 USD. Larger foam pad moves your ear further from the rather nasty Dynamic driver, to great effect, the different is staggering. It is true upgrade, not imaginary one.

Speaking of imaginary, hearing the differences between cables falls into this category of 'upgrade', benefit of $400 simply isn't measurable, but after laying out $400, OF COURSE 'layers are removed, veils have been lifted!'. During blind test these same people are unable to determine which cable is used, simply becsuse a well build, high quality, all metal plugs $15 cable, or exactly the same cable, except instead of polished Al, metal plugs are Anodised Black. I know of one such $400 cable, and who manufacturers it.
For the longest time, Audeze, an honest company refused to participate in cable business. Until LCD-4, and it's magical blue cable.

Now they offer a $400 cable as an upgrade for isine owners. This same supercable comes with i4, hopefully there is a way to opt out, and people could order LCD i4, minus $400, for people who believe laws of physics, and oppose magic, that would make LCD i4 cost $2100. Not much, considering you'll be buying the best there is. Bargain, actually, just like isine 20 are a bargain at $599, while there are ton of IEM going over $1000, with as many Armature drivers crammed in a plastic body as physically possible. And reading HradFi thread "List your favourite IEMs", this strategy seems effective. Hardly anyone in that thread has Audeze Planar IEM in their Top10.
Meanwhile Audeze Planar IEMs blow away ever IEM on the planet with ease (the only lonely exception being Shure 1500), Top 10 is cluttered with Armatures. Do these people know, that even isine 10 blows away EVERY Armature, and Dynamic IEM there is? I doubt they're aware. Audeze Isines, not to mention LCD i4 are in couple of people's Top 10, in other top 10 posts Isines don't even make it to Top 10 lol.

\rant


Are the LCD i4 different animal than isine 20?

Audeze is very quiet on this, other than saying they are hand built (so are 10 and 20, there is no other way to manufacture them), and Audeze says i4 membrane thickness is 0.5 Microns. Sounds thin. But what does 0.5 Micron mean, unless we know isine 10 and 20's membrane thickness, this number is meaningless. Yes, it is very, very thin, I get that.


Is LCDi4 better than isine 20 in a meaningful enough way, that after using isine 20 for past several months, and being very familiar with them, will plugging in the i4 be immediately audible, in same way isine 20 is clearly better than isine 10?
Because. Shure 1500 Electrostatics are in similar price range, and i4 need to be as good, or better than Shure 1500.

Please help me decide, LCD i4 users!
Your opinion is all I have to go by,

because 'professional' reviews are often 'reviews', part of marketing strategy, in Hi End audio it's always been the case, with very very few exceptions, Inner Ear bring one of the honest players.

 

[davehutch]

I've listened to isine 10, of course, before deciding to buy any Isine, and 20 is clearly better, the 'airyness', ''openess', words that really mean one thing, isine 20 distortion is lower than already low isine 10. Probably due to lighter membrane, lower Moving Mass will always result in lower distortion figures, given the the driver, the moving element is well controlled, basically close to moving piston as possible.

Just a point to note, the distortion figures for the i10 and i20 are identical <0.1%@100dB) and the membrane is exactly the same thickness in both models.
It's only when you get to the i4 that the membrane thickness becomes thinner.

The i20 does have a longer conductive track that covers more membrane area, but my understanding is that is the only difference, apart from the colour.

 

[whitemouse]

Just a point to note, the distortion figures for the i10 and i20 are identical <0.1%@100dB) and the membrane is exactly the same thickness in both models.
It's only when you get to the i4 that the membrane thickness becomes thinner.

Thank you, the isine 10 and 20 sharing same membrane is good to know, then the only difference is membrane control, the metal conductor covering the membrane is different in design.
If distortion figures of 10 and 20 are similar, then Audeze has pulled a neat trick, because isine 20 are audibly better, in every aspect. And I assumed it is result of lower Moving Mass. But if membrane material are of same thickness and thus weight, then the more effective driver control is reason for better overall output.

Off topic, but since Isines and LCD i4 are similar in design, it is not completely off topic.

Year ago, when I started paying attention to Isines, I spent lots of time in audio boutiques, comparing isine 10 and 20. Sadly, without help of Cipher, since buying an iPhone has been out of the question. I knew about EQ correction, of course, so auditioning 10 and 20 were done with identical EQ settings, using mainly Onkyo X1 as source, Fiio X7 as well.
Switching quickly between 10 and 20 almost made me buy 10, they sounded very similar, and I like the black finish of 10. Couldn't stand the Bronze finish ever since Shure SE530 came in Bronze only. Awful colour.
But then, on the day I walked in the store to buy Isines, gave the 10 long listen, 30 minutes or so, all the most familiar Flacs and dsf ripped from SACD, later .iso rips of SACD, HiByMusic android app decoding 3Gb iso fails into individual tracks.
As the isine 20 were on the table, I stick them in ears, same Roxy Music Avalon dsf playing. And in a second the different was clear as day. Isine 20 are audibly better than 10. Bought the 20s.
Haven't used Shure 846 only few times after having isine 20, only during flights.

So LCDi4 are tempting. I would opt out of Audeze's $400 cable, that comes with i4.
Has anyone bought i4 without the cable, and does Audeze credit the $400, have to ask them.

But buying LCDi4 without hearing them, not even once, would be the first for me. Im aware i4 can be returned, but I really, really don't like to return item, and ask for refund. Never have.

So it would be really big help if isine 20 owner, someone who moved to LCDi4, would give his thoughts. In Europe and in Asia Audeze i4 are not $2500, list is much higher.

 

[baiyy1986]

Did anyone use aftermarket cable for LCDi4?

 

[sorrick]

Thank you, the isine 10 and 20 sharing same membrane is good to know, then the only difference is membrane control, the metal conductor covering the membrane is different in design.
If distortion figures of 10 and 20 are similar, then Audeze has pulled a neat trick, because isine 20 are audibly better, in every aspect. And I assumed it is result of lower Moving Mass. But if membrane material are of same thickness and thus weight, then the more effective driver control is reason for better overall output.

Off topic, but since Isines and LCD i4 are similar in design, it is not completely off topic.

Year ago, when I started paying attention to Isines, I spent lots of time in audio boutiques, comparing isine 10 and 20. Sadly, without help of Cipher, since buying an iPhone has been out of the question. I knew about EQ correction, of course, so auditioning 10 and 20 were done with identical EQ settings, using mainly Onkyo X1 as source, Fiio X7 as well.
Switching quickly between 10 and 20 almost made me buy 10, they sounded very similar, and I like the black finish of 10. Couldn't stand the Bronze finish ever since Shure SE530 came in Bronze only. Awful colour.
But then, on the day I walked in the store to buy Isines, gave the 10 long listen, 30 minutes or so, all the most familiar Flacs and dsf ripped from SACD, later .iso rips of SACD, HiByMusic android app decoding 3Gb iso fails into individual tracks.
As the isine 20 were on the table, I stick them in ears, same Roxy Music Avalon dsf playing. And in a second the different was clear as day. Isine 20 are audibly better than 10. Bought the 20s.
Haven't used Shure 846 only few times after having isine 20, only during flights.

So LCDi4 are tempting. I would opt out of Audeze's $400 cable, that comes with i4.
Has anyone bought i4 without the cable, and does Audeze credit the $400, have to ask them.

But buying LCDi4 without hearing them, not even once, would be the first for me. Im aware i4 can be returned, but I really, really don't like to return item, and ask for refund. Never have.

So it would be really big help if isine 20 owner, someone who moved to LCDi4, would give his thoughts. In Europe and in Asia Audeze i4 are not $2500, list is much higher.

I upgraded from the iSine 20 to the i4 and the i4 from the first 20 second of listening was a noticeable an IMHO big step up in just about every way in terms of sound. I posted my comparison impressions several times in their thread, but there is more bass and treble extension, texture, and detail; more transparent, holographic sound; more detail; the i4 scales better the better sources you use; the i4 is airier and more open sounding; there is better instrument separation and placement; etc. It seems that to the majority of others (at least in this forum) who have heard both, the i4 is a noticeable step up. Others have asked how much of a step up, and I’m not going to try to quantify it because my scale is likely meaningless to you, but again, an imediately noticable step up, and sound that, when paired with a quality source, can go toe to toe with many totl full size cans, but in a form factor that is portable and (once you figure out how to get them fitting comfortably) almost disappears once you have them on.

I will also say that while I found that the iSine 20s benefitted hugely from EQ, I was very happy with the i4s sound without any eq at all. I have listened extensively to Tidal via roon fed into a Hugo2 and then the i4 both with and without the Audeze i4 eq preset and the difference to my ears between eq and no eq, while there, is pretty subtle (though it varies by track). I generally put the eq on when listening through roon; however, I am perfectly happy with the sound without any eq, which is what I often do while on the go. YMMV.

 

[Cagin]

Did anyone use aftermarket cable for LCDi4?

Norne Therium 8 braid, too heavy. Pulls down on hooks, discomfortable.
Onso cable. lightweight, good price

 

[roymor]

I was wondering your thoughts and experience regarding switching cable on a daily basis and the potential impact on the LCDi4 sockets...
I use the v2 cipher at home and the stock cable (with Mojo) at the office, therefore need to switch between them every day.

 

[EagleWings]

Yea, I wouldn't recommend switching cables often. The front and back plates of i4's shells are bound together with glue. Constantly changing cables puts a stress on the glue and can lead to the glue loosening up.

 

[plakat]

I received a pair today after hesitating for quite long. And two hours later... what shall I say? They are already packed up again. Not my cup of tea.

I've heard them at a show in Berlin late last year, found them interesting, but somehow a bit off. Which I attributed mainly to the noisy show around me. Unfortunately that was only the reason I could not pinpoint what I did not like about them, not the reason why I didn't.

Bass is rich, clean and deep reaching, very nice. Only minus: a bit unengaging, just like most Planars bass presentation sounds to me. They are detailed and spacious, effortless. What does not fit my taste is their presentation of the presence region, which, to me, is simply overdone, always drawing focus to it. Not that its sharp or distorted, its just too much *there*. Voices sound just not right to me, high hats the same. Treble above is there, but I perceive it as a bit disoriented if that makes any sense. A bit overshadowed by lower treble/upper mids and somehow not precise enough.

Plus I had problems with comfort. I did try most of the tips (not the big ones) plus Spinfits (those seemed to accentuate presence even more), with and without ear hooks. Without ear hooks they are uncomfortable within minutes, with a pressure point where they sit in my ear. The hooks helped, but pressed the outer body against my ear, which I found less than comfortable. Plus putting them on with hooks is about as much fun as putting in-ears in that use MMCX connectors (i.e. rotating cables) and put the cable over the ears. That is: not much fun.

To close with more positive remarks: build quality seems very good, the cable is nice. I tested them with my Hugo (1. Gen) and my AK380SS. With the Hugo I heard what I'd call a ground loop while touching the i4 shells (but only as long as I touched them). The AK went up to volume 100, but was loud enough without its external amp.

I was hoping to find an easily transportable set for holidays and business trips, but I think at home I prefer my over-ears by a huge margin. On the go an open in-ear elegantly combined the problems of two different classes of headphones, the to me rather uncomfortable fit of an in-ear with the missing isolation of an open headphone. To those who like the sound signature and fit, it may well replace an open headphone at home.

Sorry for the rather long rambling. Guess it just shows my disappointment. If anyone within the EU wants to snatch it up at a good price please PM me. I have the appropriate Cipher cable as well. Too late, already gone. I'm not going to miss it...

 

[echineko]

Spoiler

I have never listened to i4, no store that I always visit in Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok have lcdi4 on display. These stores do have just about everything else under the sun available to audition.

Maybe you just need to visit other stores. Zeppelin & Co in Singapore has them, tried them when I was last in town recently.

I’m quite sure you can find them in HK and Bangkok as well, but haven’t been back in a while. Go try them in person, if you’re in Singapore soon.

 

[whitemouse]

Maybe you just need to visit other stores. Zeppelin & Co in Singapore has them, tried them when I was last in town recently.

I’m quite sure you can find them in HK and Bangkok as well, but haven’t been back in a while. Go try them in person, if you’re in Singapore soon.

Thank you for reply!

I'm in Bangkok now, where would you suggest to audition LCD i4, please?

MungkongGadget, Audeze distributor for the region does not stock them, not in any of their 5 retail stores.

The only other Audeze dealer in Bangkok is BKK Audio, I'm waiting for their reply now.

The last I was in Singapore was November, that's quit some time ago, and I did not find any shop having LCDi4 for auditioning. You are correct, maybe I should have looked harder, and I try to keep this in mind when there next time!

You are sure about Bangkok having LCDi4 ready for auditioning here, help me out, point me towards the right place!

It's posts like yours that are real help for someone like I, hesitant about LCD i4, thank you, friend!

 

[echineko]

Actually I was going to suggest BKK Audio, I believe they were going to get them in. But I haven’t been there in a while, so not 100% on that.