[paulrbarnard]

FWIW I much prefer my LCD5 without EQ. I’m running either directly from a Chord DAVE or through a Woo WA7. For my preference, female vocalists, the LCD5 are fantastic. I’ve tried the Audeze preset on Roon but it just seems very flat and lifeless in comparison. I’m not apposed to EQ and use it regularly on my Mojo2 but LCD5 doesn’t need it for my preference when driven through the DAVE or DAVE and WA7 combination.

 

[drifter74]

FWIW I much prefer my LCD5 without EQ. I’m running either directly from a Chord DAVE or through a Woo WA7. For my preference, female vocalists, the LCD5 are fantastic. I’ve tried the Audeze preset on Roon but it just seems very flat and lifeless in comparison. I’m not apposed to EQ and use it regularly on my Mojo2 but LCD5 doesn’t need it for my preference when driven through the DAVE or DAVE and WA7 combination.

My conclusion is the exact same as yours. I run mine off an iFi iDSD PRO and after extensive testing of the Roon filters and external "expert" EQ's much prefer them standard. I love the slight mid-forward signature that elevates female vocals. They are sublime.

If I could package the best of the LCD5 and Stax SR009 into single headphone you will end up with the perfect set.

 

[thecrow]

My 2c, fwiw

i demoed the lcd5 for the first time today. With chord dave and niimbus us4.

the Bass is superb. Deep. Textured. Detailed. Maybe even flawless (subject to personal preferences).

upper mids/upper end was too raw. More than just lively. I don’t mind lively. I would describe it as too bright or forward.

but the bass - wow.
NOT lacking for my ears

 

[EMINENT]

I just don't see how anyone can call them transparent when one frequency band is so exaggerated above everything else. Listening to drums its like the snare is a foot away but the kick drum is at the back wall. Every mix is dominated by vocals or guitar bite and everything else is pushed to the back. I could not use the LCD-5 professionally without EQ correction.

I would cut that peak by 5db at least. I think Jude recommended around 3db, which would closer to the actually listenable Meze Elite.

Audeze's target is "Whatever frequency response makes for fast drivers and then you will use EQ or deal with it."

This is the last I will say. These were the only infuriatingly poorly tuned headphones I have ever owned and totally dashed my expectations coming from an older LCD-XC. At least Abyss does a weird tuning that sounds enjoyable.

Whoever is rethinking these ideal target frequencies is smoking crack. They are literally thinking "Hey, you know that obnoxious 3-4khz that we usually cut for good reason? Why don't we instead push it as far as we possibly can and rely on our customers to buy it anyway?"

While I felt the same way as you early on, it quickly turned around and I feel completely the opposite now.

That peak is probably helping why they connect so well to being also highly engaging to me. This was further realized with the May recently. I tried a stint of stock tuning/NOS/HQP last night and they were very listenable but could quickly still sense that peak. It's surprising how little of a bass shelf I am running now compared to the past but still add some low shelf flavor. With the convolution and shelf, the whole stage is perfectly balanced to me. None of what you mention about drums in the back of the mix and definitely no weird staging like Expanse.

I went through a bit of gear trying not to hear things or prove they didn't work for myself. Some did, some didn't make much difference. Buying and dumping is an easy way out until you land on one that is close enough to be ok, unless you're a collector. Like those who would rather mess with pad swaps or different cables and transducers. I found out the hard way with the Expanse experiment. Expanse tuning was really good and I really wanted to like them as they were super compact and had a trick build but the overall presentation had no emotive connection with the vocals/midrange. The odd staging made the whole experience feel like just sound hitting my ears. This really furthered my realization of how small tuning is part of the overall experience. I won't judge on tuning alone going forward if i'm ever able to demo again but the 5's will be forever keepers as long as I can afford keeping them.

My 2c, fwiw

i demoed the lcd5 for the first time today. With chord dave and niimbus us4.

the Bass is superb. Deep. Textured. Detailed. Maybe even flawless (subject to personal preferences).

upper mids/upper end was too raw. More than just lively. I don’t mind lively. I would describe it as too bright or forward.

but the bass - wow.
NOT lacking for my ears

This is really much balanced now with May. I did another brief stint for 30 mins. for the first time with NOS alone. It's more tolerable now with May then how I remember from the R26/X26 Pro. There is clearly either higher bass presence or mid/treble roll off or combo of both in comparison. Adding Mitch's filter in Roon instead of HQP led to higher low shelf than running in HQP... that was weird. It was immediately noticeable the difference with the short time I had. I also threw on Audeze's filters and tried both linear and zero latency and they are good, but Mitch's is definitely better to me in overall engagement, body, balance and connection.

Also, finished the 13900K build and testing the last couple days and this is sounding spectacular. HQP+NOS is definitely better than standalone NOS. NOS is good without HQP, but even with and just 256, HQP is another level I highly recommend if you've never tried or heard it.

 

[MN8372]

My 2c, fwiw

i demoed the lcd5 for the first time today. With chord dave and niimbus us4.

the Bass is superb. Deep. Textured. Detailed. Maybe even flawless (subject to personal preferences).

upper mids/upper end was too raw. More than just lively. I don’t mind lively. I would describe it as too bright or forward.

but the bass - wow.
NOT lacking for my ears

Glad to hear you tried these out as I’ve read a number of your posts on Susvara. I’m always fascinated by how polarising these phones are. I dont think they are bright at all. The treble is almost dark I think. The upper mids are very forward though (shouty for some) and I think this effects people differently. I suspect your ears are more sensitive than mine in this area. Your May DAC may be a better match than the Dave.

I love vocals and the upper mids dont bother me even without EQ. Although I do think they can be improved with EQ. As so many others have noted they can really take a bass shelf, a cut around the upper mids and then I actually boost them in the treble range - which helps to open them up a bit as they can sound a bit closed in compared to Susvara. Personally I find the Susvara a brighter headphone (but still wonderful).

Agree about the bass - the Susvara goes deep but doesn’t have the same punch that these phones do.

I’m using the same filter/modulator as Eminent (above) but only at DSD512. I’m still stuck with a lowly 12900k…

 

[thecrow]

Glad to hear you tried these out as I’ve read a number of your posts on Susvara. I’m always fascinated by how polarising these phones are. I dont think they are bright at all. The treble is almost dark I think. The upper mids are very forward though (shouty for some) and I think this effects people differently. I suspect your ears are more sensitive than mine in this area. Your May DAC may be a better match than the Dave.

I love vocals and the upper mids dont bother me even without EQ. Although I do think they can be improved with EQ. As so many others have noted they can really take a bass shelf, a cut around the upper mids and then I actually boost them in the treble range - which helps to open them up a bit as they can sound a bit closed in compared to Susvara. Personally I find the Susvara a brighter headphone (but still wonderful).

Agree about the bass - the Susvara goes deep but doesn’t have the same punch that these phones do.

I’m using the same filter/modulator as Eminent (above) but only at DSD512. I’m still stuck with a lowly 12900k…

thanks for that reply

when demoing gear that i want to demo seriously (with a potential near future purchase in mind) i take my niimbus in and use the dave as i feel the sonic nature of the dave is somewhat similar to the may. however i have never heard the two dacs side by side to strongly support that opinion. The may is too much too lug around (with me into a store).

I don’t think i am particularly sensitive to top end but maybe i am. I do enjoy the hd800 with tubes FWIW.

i really do think that when we are commenting/reviewing gear at this end the total chain needs to be considered and mentioned (particularly by reviewers).

Off the top of my head two examples of that for me are:
1) when people comment on susvaras - that i find potentially very transparent- your gear will influence the output. Absolutely!!! Gear matters when it comes to sharing one’s impressions. Imho: and,

2) the may dac. From my own experience, as an eg, interconnects and gear attached to this dac will impart their own elements in the sound. If not all gear than a lot of gear will affect it. So the same should be considered with all headphones and gear attached to other gear.

Also, for eg, when i hear some people saying the susvaras are lacking in bottom end or are thin in the mids, or peaky up top. i (happily) do not hear that or come to that conclusion. Whether that is because what i consider to be bass anaemic or thin sounding is different, or what i am comparing it to is different, or if i simply hear things in my ears and brain differently, or if my setup (particularly niimbus amp) is different i have no concrete idea. But my opinions and impressions are different. That does not make their opinions invalid either.

having said all that, and susvara opinions aside, as you said it is interesting how diverse the responses by members regarding the lcd5 are.

perhaps it is the upper mids and not the treble that are the shouty part. I wouldn’t disagree with that. I haven’t studied too far into what SHOULD be considered upper mids and what is treble so i mostly use the terms upper end and lower end as a broader term. Sometimes i group “upper mids/treble” as one block. and i don’t think everyone is on the same page on where all the frequencies sit in “treble, mids and bass” so i try to avoid that confusion or inconsistencies

but that shouty part is, for me, an element that i could not leave as is as i heard it In the demo. I would have to explore eq. But i would have to get a pair to demo home or bring in map, dac and streamer and i most likely wouldn’t.

and on the other end (that lower end) that i have read/heard some say is too analytical or neutral or not deep enough, well based on what i heard my views do not at all much up. It was textured and rich (i feel the niimbus allows that/ brings that up).

again these are just my opinions with the gear i tried and only in a 45 min demo as opposed to me living with the headphone.

it’s interesting that you and others find that you are happy to listen with no eq to those mids. (And others disagree). Two great things about this hobby is all the gear options we have to choose from to buy and all of our own preferences and subjective impressions.

when i came back home to my susvaras i did, again, get reminded how good i find the susvaras. They hit such a sweet spot for me. They may not have such a potent (in a good way) bass that the lcd5 delivered, but they present so much of the overall sound of a headphone so very well. They may not be the absolute master of any one particular thing/character but they are superb at being the best jack of all trades that i have heard (for me).

having said that they i could argue, and I probably do, that the susvaras are the masters of transparency, or at least the equal masters.

apologies for this novella

TLR;
different gear, different sounds, different experiences, different opinions, great options. Lcd5 an interesting listen.

 

[sahmen]

thanks for that reply

when demoing gear that i want to demo seriously (with a potential near future purchase in mind) i take my niimbus in and use the dave as i feel the sonic nature of the dave is somewhat similar to the may. however i have never heard the two dacs side by side to strongly support that opinion. The may is too much too lug around (with me into a store).

I don’t think i am particularly sensitive to top end but maybe i am. I do enjoy the hd800 with tubes FWIW.

i really do think that when we are commenting/reviewing gear at this end the total chain needs to be considered and mentioned (particularly by reviewers).

Off the top of my head two examples of that for me are:
1) when people comment on susvaras - that i find potentially very transparent- your gear will influence the output. Absolutely!!! Gear matters when it comes to sharing one’s impressions. Imho: and,

2) the may dac. From my own experience, as an eg, interconnects and gear attached to this dac will impart their own elements in the sound. If not all gear than a lot of gear will affect it. So the same should be considered with all headphones and gear attached to other gear.

Also, for eg, when i hear some people saying the susvaras are lacking in bottom end or are thin in the mids, or peaky up top. i (happily) do not hear that or come to that conclusion. Whether that is because what i consider to be bass anaemic or thin sounding is different, or what i am comparing it to is different, or if i simply hear things in my ears and brain differently, or if my setup (particularly niimbus amp) is different i have no concrete idea. But my opinions and impressions are different. That does not make their opinions invalid either.

having said all that, and susvara opinions aside, as you said it is interesting how diverse the responses by members regarding the lcd5 are.

perhaps it is the upper mids and not the treble that are the shouty part. I wouldn’t disagree with that. I haven’t studied too far into what SHOULD be considered upper mids and what is treble so i mostly use the terms upper end and lower end as a broader term. Sometimes i group “upper mids/treble” as one block. and i don’t think everyone is on the same page on where all the frequencies sit in “treble, mids and bass” so i try to avoid that confusion or inconsistencies

but that shouty part is, for me, an element that i could not leave as is as i heard it In the demo. I would have to explore eq. But i would have to get a pair to demo home or bring in map, dac and streamer and i most likely wouldn’t.

and on the other end (that lower end) that i have read/heard some say is too analytical or neutral or not deep enough, well based on what i heard my views do not at all much up. It was textured and rich (i feel the niimbus allows that/ brings that up).

again these are just my opinions with the gear i tried and only in a 45 min demo as opposed to me living with the headphone.

it’s interesting that you and others find that you are happy to listen with no eq to those mids. (And others disagree). Two great things about this hobby is all the gear options we have to choose from to buy and all of our own preferences and subjective impressions.

when i came back home to my susvaras i did, again, get reminded how good i find the susvaras. They hit such a sweet spot for me. They may not have such a potent (in a good way) bass that the lcd5 delivered, but they present so much of the overall sound of a headphone so very well. They may not be the absolute master of any one particular thing/character but they are superb at being the best jack of all trades that i have heard (for me).

having said that they i could argue, and I probably do, that the susvaras are the masters of transparency, or at least the equal masters.

apologies for this novella

TLR;
different gear, different sounds, different experiences, different opinions, great options. Lcd5 an interesting listen.

Okay in spite of all the cautious disclaimers about differences in individual preferences and the tiptoeing around the central claims you want to make, I can fully agree with two main points you have made :
,
1. The LCD-5 sounds great with the caveat that its "upper-mids" might border on too hot or harsh on some tracks for some users... Agreed! For me taming down that potential upper-mid harshness/hotness has been the major blessing of Mitch Barnett's LCD-5 convolutions! So yes, I am not EQ-Agnostic, and that has solved a few sticky issues for me in this hobby (such as getting me to actually enjoy listening to the OG HD-800 for hours on end with, again, one of good old Mitch's convolutions, but I digress).

2. Yes, the Susvara is all you say it is, and then some, even when hooked to my US4, which you also have, and my Sonnet Morpheus, which I feel too humbled to mention in front of the owner of a Dave and a Holo May KTE (but I do not know why, although, once again, I digress)...

So why go to all this trouble to express my agreement with two of your main claims? Because I think these are quite non-controversial claims that can now be made without too many of the usual disclaimers and the excessive tip-toeing, which can get to be a bit much at times on head-fi, even with all due respect and recognition accorded to the legitimate claims of different individual preferences, tastes, and choices

Good morning, @thecrow , old buddy

 

[Tanalasta]

Agree with the above.

Having recently bought the Affinity adapters so I can use my Danacable LR+ with the LCD-5 ; it adds a lovely weight to the sound.

Natural, there is that engaging vocal frequency peak that accentuates vocalists. I actually enjoy listening to it having gotten used to the sound signature. Bit like how Chord's sound signature eventually did grow on me. It is also source dependent ; the dynamic liveliness more accentuated out of the Naim Uniti Atom than say the Hugo 2.

The ROON filters are designed to adjust the frequency response to 'neutral, reference'. I wouldn't go so far as to say lifeless. It is relaxing, neutral and inoffensive. Perhaps better when you're laid back rather than engaged with the music. I quite enjoy the idiosyncrasies. Audeze tuned the LCD-5 the way they did for a reason.

The Susvara is bloody fabulous when driven well. I have to this date not heard another pair of headphones with the holographic soundstage, placement and detail. And that includes the Sennheiser HE-1 which I had the pleasure of auditioning the other day. Only a two channel setup has surpassed.

 

[cantara256]

The Susvara is bloody fabulous when driven well. I have to this date not heard another pair of headphones with the holographic soundstage, placement and detail. And that includes the Sennheiser HE-1 which I had the pleasure of auditioning the other day. Only a two channel setup has surpassed.

Care to share any other impressions of the HE-1, compared to LCD-5 or anything else? I could audition it locally but I'm afraid it'll ruin me lol

 

[ptr516]

I recently noticed that there was a seemingly significant sonic difference depending on the LCD-5 headband setting. My head size has me wearing the LCD-5 at either the largest or second-to-largest rod notches. When listening to the LCD-5 at the largest setting, vocals seem less forward and the overall mix seems more layered and separated.

This would seem to indicate at least some sort of decrease in the upper mids but it doesn't seem as simple as a couple db dip around 3-3.5kHz. With this configuration, I find the tonal balance is actually almost perfect for me without any sort of EQ.

I am not sure if the difference in perception is due to ear positioning, pad compression level, or distance of my ear to the actual driver. Or maybe I'm fooling myself. I am wondering if anyone here experienced something similar with different headband settings/reduced clamp force/lower cup positioning. It might be worth trying a larger headband setting for those struggling with overly forward upper mids in the stock tuning.

 

[Raidersfan8118]

I recently received calderas and the upper mids aren’t agreeing with me. Very nice headphone but idk something about upper mids not being present enough bothers me on guitar sound. I’m wondering how amp picky lcd 5 is? I recently got a cayin iha6 for caldera.

 

[TheFrator]

I am not sure if the difference in perception is due to ear positioning, pad compression level, or distance of my ear to the actual driver.

Any of these factors could weigh in on the perceived sound at the ear drum- so you're not fooling yourself. There's a reason the LCD-5's pad are shaped different than previous Audeze headphones.

I recently received calderas and the upper mids aren’t agreeing with me. Very nice headphone but idk something about upper mids not being present enough bothers me on guitar sound. I’m wondering how amp picky lcd 5 is? I recently got a cayin iha6 for caldera.

Haha if you like upper mids then the 5 is for you. Whether it'll be too much, I can't tell you. I wouldn't say it's amp picky but at the minimum an A-90 will deliver. I've never used an IHA6 but it looks more than sufficient power and current wise - especially if you're using the left and right balanced 3-pin connectors. I know @chargedcapacitor runs his out of a Hypex speaker amp and I'm going to try mine out of a Benchmark AHB2 speaker amp once the holidays (and work) cools off.

Your comment about the Caldera lacking mids has me concereed on whether I'll like the Caldera or not. I was close to buying but I'm not one to buy blind so I'll have to wait until CanJam.

 

[Raidersfan8118]

Any of these factors could weigh in on the perceived sound at the ear drum- so you're not fooling yourself. There's a reason the LCD-5's pad are shaped different than previous Audeze headphones.

Haha if you like upper mids then the 5 is for you. Whether it'll be too much, I can't tell you. I wouldn't say it's amp picky but at the minimum an A-90 will deliver. I've never used an IHA6 but it looks more than sufficient power and current wise - especially if you're using the left and right balanced 3-pin connectors. I know @chargedcapacitor runs his out of a Hypex speaker amp and I'm going to try mine out of a Benchmark AHB2 speaker amp once the holidays (and work) cools off.

Your comment about the Caldera lacking mids has me concereed on whether I'll like the Caldera or not. I was close to buying but I'm not one to buy blind so I'll have to wait until CanJam.

Mid range and lower is good but idk seems like the upper mids being laid back doesn’t have a good effect on most guitar sounds. Some it’s fine but overall I think atrium is better for guitar sound. If I could get the clarity and resolution and vocals of the caldera with the atrium mids/upper mids I’d be set.

 

[TheFrator]

If I could get the clarity and resolution and vocals of the caldera with the atrium mids/upper mids I’d be set.

@EMINENT is the guy to talk to about vocals as AFAIK he loves the LCD-5 for that very reason.

I'm a drum, saxophone, and guitar snob so a headphone has to deliver in all areas for me to love it. And the LCD-5 delivers. Not sure if you'll like the treble presentation but I prefer a headphone to be relaxed in that area because I'm a wimp with treble haha.

 

[Raidersfan8118]

@EMINENT is the guy to talk to about vocals as AFAIK he loves the LCD-5 for that very reason.

I'm a drum, saxophone, and guitar snob so a headphone has to deliver in all areas for me to love it. And the LCD-5 delivers. Not sure if you'll like the treble presentation but I prefer a headphone to be relaxed in that area because I'm a wimp with treble haha.

I’m big on those same things. I see you owned verite and I found verite closed quite veiled and muddy sounding. Is lcd5 anything like that?