[Rhamnetin]

  It may be psychoacoustics, no? Better aligned treble has more perception, therefore bass has less, phones seem to be brighter?

 
That's probably what it is.  The Fazor revisions are less dark and it causes people to think it has less (sub) bass.

 

[DivergeUnify]

Measurably the fazor edition LCD2s have about 5-7db roll off around 20 hz starting at 45hz, compared to the prior versions which are flat down to 20

 

[potkettleblack]

Dude, you said you didn't understand how anyone could pick the 3f over the X, my reply was explaining the reason the X didn't appear there (in other words, I wasn't rating the X at all). And of course it's about preference, the very comment you responded to was a statement of my preference. Sorry I didn't rate your X, but no need to jump down my throat.

Try not to misquote me if thats ok. I said in terms of bass. I understand many reasons why someone would pick the 3 over the x - but bass is not one - it seems obviously so much better i was confused as to why you would pick the 3 for that specific thing - or anyone for that matter. I wouldn't say the hd650 has better imaging over the hd800 but I would pick the 650 as a headphone over the hd800 - but similar to this I could never say the imaging is better. That's my point.
 
Thanks.

 

[Focker]

   
I couldn't believe my ears with the LCD-4s...I thought the LCD-X's bass was already outstanding, but it appears that there was room for improvement with the LCD-4.

Wow, that's very exciting...I'm addicted to the bass on the X...deep, impactful, and most importantly, CLEAN. If the 4 betters them, then wow...that's very impressive indeed

 

[marcan]

  There seems to be confusion on what a fazor does and what it doesn't do. So here is some more explanation on Fazors and how they work. Fazors are for upper mid and high Frequencies management and don’t have anything to do with the bass extension. The Bass extension on these headphones are pretty much the same if they are Fazored or Non-Fazored. Here is a simulation from comsol.
Non Fazor

Fazor

 
Fazors do four things
a. They remove the diffraction around the magnets when sound goes through them. Diffraction effects are related to wavelength and the size of the obstacle. With our Fazors Low frequencies are not affected by this at all.
b.  Sound Stage & Imaging - There are two things related to this - How big the sound stage is and how accurate it is. We do a lot of tests and recordings ourselves to determine where instruments are placed and how accurate the sound stage and imaging are. Here is an example of us doing a recording early this year. In these tests, we accurately mark the position of the performer and compare them to reproduced sound stage. We listen to the live performances and also to the reproduced sound.
The fazors make the audio wavefronts more coherent. This in turn makes the sound stage more accurate. We use both Audeze microphones and other microphones for these tests.

 
c.  Efficiency. The fazors increase acoustic impedance in the space between the ear and the driver. This gets us a bit more efficiency.
d. Phase coherency. This is why we named it fazor.

Thank you for your explanations.
How do you explain the difference in the bass extension with the fazer?
It is audible and it is confirmed by measurement:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Rev2.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2sn5423021Fazer.pdf
Thank you for your reply.
Cheers

 

[jodgey4]

  Thank you for your explanations.
How do you explain the difference in the bass extension with the fazer?
It is audible and it is confirmed by measurement:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Rev2.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2sn5423021Fazer.pdf
Thank you for your reply.
Cheers

The previous explanations were: new testing methods, new testing equipment (I think), driver wear/break-in, testing anomalies. It left me wanting.

 

[marcan]

  The previous explanations were: new testing methods, new testing equipment (I think), driver wear/break-in, testing anomalies. It left me wanting.

Except the measurement I gave wasn't done by Audeze and my ears was the same during the comparison...

 

[jodgey4]

Except the measurement I gave wasn't done by Audeze and my ears was the same during the comparison...

I hear ya. The Fazor really shouldn't change anything below 350Hz, so it's very confusing.

 

[Igor01]

  I had both 3F and HEK at the same time for several weeks.  After finding the right amp to drive the HEK I ended up selling the 3F( I owned the 3F as my reference for several years).   The HEK scaled so much better than the 3F did and the improvements were quite noticeable.  May still look in to getting a LCD4 but I am in no hurry (which means I'm still hot on the HEK ).  I don't miss the 3F at all.

What amp did you end up getting for your HEK?  I enjoy mine out of WA7/tp but it feels a bit underpowered for HEK.

 

[Blackrain]

Well I had the Burson Conductor Virtuoso which in theory should have been enough power with 4 watts.  But it also felt like it was underpowered.  The deep bass and the slam just wasn't quite there yet.  I tried a few other smaller amps but I eventually switched to the Violectric V281 & V850 combo and I am very happy.  It has plenty of power on tap...  I am even thinking about trying out a pair of Hifiman HE6 which is extremely difficult to drive.  Here is a photo of my setup:
 
By the way- Violectric-USA ( http://violectric-usa.com ) has a Black Friday special going on.  25% off all equipment and any purchase over $500 gets a free pair of interconnects.
Its a $200 pair of interconnect and it sounds really good:
 
Here is a small review I wrote on the interconnect should you be interested:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/786838/introducing-violectric-by-lake-people-cables#post_12062189

 

[DivergeUnify]

I hear ya. The Fazor really shouldn't change anything below 350Hz, so it's very confusing.

Well I definitely believe Audeze changed the drivers when they switched to fazors.

The measurement differences between pre and post fazor are so consistent. If not, someone would have just taken the fazor off to get back the classic bass. Unfortunately I don't believe removing the fazor does that

 

[Articnoise]

Well I definitely believe Audeze changed the drivers when they switched to fazors.

The measurement differences between pre and post fazor are so consistent. If not, someone would have just taken the fazor off to get back the classic bass. Unfortunately I don't believe removing the fazor does that

 

Yes Audeze also changed the driver (to 110 Ohms) for the LCD 3 at the same time. I have had both the fazor (2014) and the no fazor LCD 3 (2013) at the same time and the older one had a bit more subbass. The LCD 3F has on the other hand a bit better clarity, speed and a wider more open soundstage. The treble has also a bit more energy and the whole sound is a tad less forgiving. 

 

[Wildcatsare1]

http://headphone.guru/the-new-big-kid-on-the-block-the-awesome-audeze-lcd-4/

Great review, for those of with 3 and Xs it's time to start saving!

 

[RCBinTN]

http://headphone.guru/the-new-big-kid-on-the-block-the-awesome-audeze-lcd-4/

Great review, for those of with 3 and Xs it's time to start saving!

 
Well, Peter certainly makes the LCD-4 sound very enjoyable.  

 

[jibzilla]

http://headphone.guru/the-new-big-kid-on-the-block-the-awesome-audeze-lcd-4/

Great review, for those of with 3 and Xs it's time to start saving!

 
Make the lcd-4 $3k and I would consider it. $4k is just too rich for my blood.