[bagwell359]

I agree with Bagwell on the upper-mids. It's a bit recessed and probably not a purposed tuning, but it's the driver response. Even with their iSines, mids doesn't sound normal, a bit off, that why they provide the cipher cable to EQ it.

At the pricepoint, it should at least be tonally balanced. This is why I find Audeze to be a bit roll the dice chancing.

I don't find the bass heavy, at least not a slamming bass, but diffused sounding, not thick sounding in warm sense.

Actually the major issue with the upper bass is that it makes low strings and voices sound deeper and thicker than they should.

The other issue which is shared by many cans is that quick percussion such as rototoms and low register piano can be smeared when bass instruments with a lot of sustain (or played that way) come in together. Any can with a "Q" above the ideal .707 is going to have problems with this. The most damped can I know is the HD-600 which has a very tight damping - probably about .57, and that can has less issues that I'm talking about. My 500 as modified probably is about .75 (assuming that we can translate box woofer Q to a can). I think the LCD-2's with fazor '14 cans I heard are higher than that - .85 at least. Guess what, those bass signals modulate each other, the more complex, the worse.

 

[bagwell359]

I would say lots of HPs are wrong in the bass/sub bass except the LCD's. The upper mids dip depends of your listening level.

Name some if you would. The only can I know that I dislike the bass as much is the Mass Drop-X00 Mahogany which is a slug. Some I like more are lighter in impact than the LCD2 but in their favor do not modulate complex bass passages as much. I certainly don't like any of the bass head type cans I've heard - although I haven't heard the SOTA ones.

 

[betula]

Actually the major issue with the upper bass is that it makes low strings and voices sound deeper and thicker than they should.

The other issue which is shared by many cans is that quick percussion such as rototoms and low register piano can be smeared when bass instruments with a lot of sustain (or played that way) come in together. Any can with a "Q" above the ideal .707 is going to have problems with this. The most damped can I know is the HD-600 which has a very tight damping - probably about .57, and that can has less issues that I'm talking about. My 500 as modified probably is about .75 (assuming that we can translate box woofer Q to a can). I think the LCD-2's with fazor '14 cans I heard are higher than that - .85 at least. Guess what, those bass signals modulate each other, the more complex, the worse.

I think, by now we all get that the LCD2 is not your cup of tea. Thanks for all the long and detailed posts where you explain the reasons. There are better headphones out there for classical and acoustic music, but most of us use the 2C for other music genres.
Perhaps it is time to move on to the threads of your preferred headphones and explain there how much better they are compared to the LCDs. With all respect.

 

[BrotherKathos]

Actually the major issue with the upper bass is that it makes low strings and voices sound deeper and thicker than they should.

The other issue which is shared by many cans is that quick percussion such as rototoms and low register piano can be smeared when bass instruments with a lot of sustain (or played that way) come in together. Any can with a "Q" above the ideal .707 is going to have problems with this. The most damped can I know is the HD-600 which has a very tight damping - probably about .57, and that can has less issues that I'm talking about. My 500 as modified probably is about .75 (assuming that we can translate box woofer Q to a can). I think the LCD-2's with fazor '14 cans I heard are higher than that - .85 at least. Guess what, those bass signals modulate each other, the more complex, the worse.

Maybe you have different musical equipment experiences and bias as to what you think is a correct frequency response than people like myself who have dedicated home theater set ups with measured flat responce down to below 30 hz. The LCD-2c is the only headphone I own that even comes close to reproducing bass with the accuracy and range of my home theater. All of my other headphones in my profile dont even come close. I’m just guessing you’ve never had the privalege of hearing truly high end dedicated theater rooms that are sound treated and calibrated.

If so then you would not have the opinion the lcd2c produces bass incorrectly. I agree with Betula that you might be letting your personal preferences influence your understanding of true full range sound. Most headphones meaning the vast majority of them are not capable of producing truly full range sound like you would experience with a ht setup consisting of multiple speakers and dedicated subs. The lcd2c is one of the few that comes close.

 

[bagwell359]

I think, by now we all get that the LCD2 is not your cup of tea. Thanks for all the long and detailed posts where you explain the reasons. There are better headphones out there for classical and acoustic music, but most of us use the 2C for other music genres.
Perhaps it is time to move on to the threads of your preferred headphones and explain there how much better they are compared to the LCDs. With all respect.

I thought any thread was open to anyone, I didn't know that this thread was sacrosanct or that you are a high arbiter of where I can post.

Internet tough guys and defensive fan boys - I ran into them on Arpanet long before the web existed, really good to know its still a thing..

 

[betula]

I thought any thread was open to anyone, I didn't know that this thread was sacrosanct or that you are a high arbiter of where I can post.

Internet tough guys and defensive fan boys - I ran into them on Arpanet long before the web existed, really good to know its still a thing..

I am not going to other threads to express how much I do not like those headphones. I rather talk about what I like. I think you can't complain about not having enough space here to express your negative opinion about the 2C which most of us like here. I just thought I politely try to let you know that we have read enough of your negative opinion. Several detailed posts I think express your thoughts pretty well. My intention was not to make you feel insulted but I have obviously failed in this.

 

[bagwell359]

Maybe you have different musical equipment experiences and bias as to what you think is a correct frequency response than people like myself who have dedicated home theater set ups with measured flat responce down to below 30 hz.

Well perhaps that's it - HT as a standard, the EQ of HT is certainly not flat for music.

I started going with my father to the BSO when I was about 9, He bought a pair of Quad ESL's when I was 12, Later lived in Chicago and hit the other most legendary Hall in the US. Also learned how to play guitar and piano - poorly. Plenty of time spent on the other side - saw 3 Pink Floyd concerts before they put out DSOM. Saw Miles Davis's return to the stage in Boston, etc. and so on. Owned a lot of equipment with an EQ pointed at music - Verity Parsifals (25Hz-50K), various Pass amps and pre-amps, Koetsu and other top cartridges, a good deal of ASC tube traps. Earlier ML CLS IIz with Gradient subs - plenty of correct bass.

The LCD-2c is the only headphone I own that even comes close to reproducing bass with the accuracy and range of my home theater. All of my other headphones in my profile dont even come close. I’m just guessing you’ve never had the privalege of hearing truly high end dedicated theater rooms that are sound treated and calibrated.

I sold, was investor in, and friends of High End Audio folks from 1977-2005. I've heard lots including $50k+ HT set-ups. Not my cup of tea for music. Nice for movies.

If so then you would not have the opinion the lcd2c produces bass incorrectly.

I have more experience than most people here, certainly enough to opine on the quality of LCD2's with fuzzor mod built in 2014. I've got a nice front end (see sig). I had another guy bring over his LCD's w/ fuzzor mod and it wasn't a defective sample.

I agree with Betula that you might be letting your personal preferences influence your understanding of true full range sound.

Perhaps it is your defensive attitude that refuses to grant that I am qualified to render a verdict and it doesn't comport with yours.

Most headphones meaning the vast majority of them are not capable of producing truly full range sound like you would experience with a ht setup consisting of multiple speakers and dedicated subs. The lcd2c is one of the few that comes close.

The music lives in the mids. The LCD2's upper mids are flawed by being reticent in output. The lower mids are chestier than they should be. Right there they are done. But tossing in the dropping upper octave robbing the music of overtones and the bass that predominates beyond what the recording calls for -- they just don't qualify as high quality head phones to me. As I define audio playback wending from my fathers Quad's, to my Maggie MG-1, MG-2, 3.3, DQ-10 (with sub, with cheap ribbon tweet, then the right one), etc.

If the fans here prefer HT or Bose 901's or whatever - fine, but trying to denigrate what I know just shows how unsure you must be of your conclusions.

 

[bagwell359]

I am not going to other threads to express how much I do not like those headphones. I rather talk about what I like. I think you can't complain about not having enough space here to express your negative opinion about the 2C which most of us like here. I just thought I politely try to let you know that we have read enough of your negative opinion. Several detailed posts I think express your thoughts pretty well. My intention was not to make you feel insulted but I have obviously failed in this.

I was doing a search and it brought me here. I guess i cannot use the search function either? I've enjoyed my time at HF, until now.

 

[WildStyle-R11]

This is why I get disillusioned with social interactions these days. Everyone is always offended, even when you use their own words against them and all of a sudden you are the bad one?!? ^^ (Just a rant)

The thing is, it's not really that easy to find headphones you like, The way I landed on 2C was by going to other headphone thread and pretty much saying "I don't like these, This is why and what I should look at instead?" And that is how you end up on the right track. You can't always make sense by yourself, you need other people to guide you there. So many times have I gained knowledge by having a meaningful conversation with someone and it is not like I just accepted their opinion along the way, we just formed a better more informed one over the course of the conversation. We still might not agree, but I'm sure both parties walked away with more knowledge than before.

No point in having a topic where we only mention the good things, We each know how much we like these for various reasons and in various ways. And nothing is going to change that. If someone has negative thing to say, that is all for the better, we can grow more as a community, by understanding each other more. Which in turn will make it more easy to help others on their search...Probably.

 

[betula]

This is why I get disillusioned with social interactions these days. Everyone is always offended, even when you use their own words against them and all of a sudden you are the bad one?!? ^^ (Just a rant)

The thing is, it's not really that easy to find headphones you like, The way I landed on 2C was by going to other headphone thread and pretty much saying "I don't like these, This is why and what I should look at instead?" And that is how you end up on the right track. You can't always make sense by yourself, you need other people to guide you there. So many times have I gained knowledge by having a meaningful conversation with someone and it is not like I just accepted their opinion along the way, we just formed a better more informed one over the course of the conversation. We still might not agree, but I'm sure both parties walked away with more knowledge than before.

No point in having a topic where we only mention the good things, We each know how much we like these for various reasons and in various ways. And nothing is going to change that. If someone has negative thing to say, that is all for the better, we can grow more as a community, by understanding each other more. Which in turn will make it more easy to help others on their search...Probably.

Expressing negative opinion can indeed be constructive and helpful to others. However after several long posts I just couldn't see this latest discussion going towards a potentially useful outcome. I have regulated my impatient attitude now and keen to see the golden gems this discussion might bring to us.

 

[endlesswaves]

Guys, let's chill. No point getting defensive. Everyone has their own opinions and definitions.

Imagine a nice neighbour with good intentions sharing his favorite dish with me which happens to be what I hated most. Do I tell him his favorite dish sucks and he was wrong to like it? No right?

Social interactions here and in real life isn't that different. Let's take the 1st step by respecting each other's opinion.

Anyway back to headfi discussion. My taste of music might be wrong to an "audiophile". But this type of music and with LCD2C fulfill my needs perfectly. I think there isn't another headphone will let me enjoy the song more. Note the bass at 2:35. Being right or wrong adds nothing to my enjoyment.



PS: Was happy with Beats before I stumbled upon headfi. Am grateful for all the insights, impressions, advice and so on. Let's keep it friendly. Or was I happily in ignorant bliss with my Beats and now contracted and suffering from the "upgraditis" disease from you guys here? Damn this is hard to decide.

 

[chimney189]

I've seen 2 YouTube videos on comparisons of the LCD-2C and the closed version .. but I'm definitely wanting more impressions.

Anyone care to share?

 

[betula]

Apologies for my intense and potentially dividing responses to this latest discussion. I just find it irritating when someone is trying to sell his personal preference as ultimate and objective truth. And just goes on and on and on. There is nothing wrong with expressing what we think, but we also have to choose wisely where (and how) we do that.

 

[koover]

Apologies for my intense and potentially dividing responses to this latest discussion. I just find it irritating when someone is trying to sell his personal preference as ultimate and objective truth. And just goes on and on and on. There is nothing wrong with expressing what we think, but we also have to choose wisely where (and how) we do that.

Dude, no need to apologize. Everyone has an opinion. Yours is just a bit intense….like mine most of the time. It ain't nothing to me at least so don't apologize on what you have to say. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

 

[betula]

Dude, no need to apologize. Everyone has an opinion. Yours is just a bit intense….like mine most of the time. It ain't nothing to me at least so don't apologize on what you have to say. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

Cool, I just didn't want to come across as offensive. Since I haven't had anyone standing by me until now I got a bit confused whether I was too harsh.
Love and peace. And enjoy your LCD if you are one of the strange and audibly uneducated guys like me, who are able enjoy them.