[s2kPanda]

They’re a side step in the sense they’re a completely different type of sound. They have superior bass texture to the HD650 but they don’t have the treble refinement and mid range, vocal detail and emotion of the HD650. They’re both equally as resolving, I give the edge in detail to the HD650. They’re good compliments to each other.

Really enjoying my 2Cs this is what the 2016 model should’ve been.

Pair it with the right chain and the 2C outshines the 650 in every way. I had the 650s and they are like the bums of the headphone world, boring and overrated. Yeah they are good for what they are but 2C is an upgrade over them.

 

[MusicalParadise]

Pair it with the right chain and the 2C outshines the 650 in every way. I had the 650s and they are like the bums of the headphone world, boring and overrated. Yeah they are good for what they are but 2C is an upgrade over them.

I find it’s the opposite personally the LCD-2C doesn’t really scale too well. Also the LCD-2C has a recess in the presence regions that makes them lack excitement, presence compared to the HD650 which is more dynamic. I find the HD650 more refined and detailed on most areas but the linear textured bass of the LCD-2C is way better than the messy HD650’s bass but in my experiences that where the superiority ends. The HD650 fair better on higher end amps and DACs can’t speak for your chain so YMMV.

Point is they’re both different one has upper mid presence the other doesn’t.

 

[gLer]

I'd be very careful of posters claiming the HD650 is superior to any flavour of LCD-2. There's a notorious troll that shows up every so often as a different user after he gets found out and banned. The above smells oddly familiar...

 

[s2kPanda]

I'd be very careful of posters claiming the HD650 is superior to any flavour of LCD-2. There's a notorious troll that shows up every so often as a different user after he gets found out and banned. The above smells oddly familiar...

Lol, wouldn't be surprised. Guy had like 4 posts.

 

[wazzupi]

I've owned my hd650 for 5 years i bought a Otl amp worth triple the price of my hd650 and i found it endgame for that long til this year ive purchased an eikon lcd2c hp2 aeon open flow cayin iha6 within 2 months. AFO is a far superior hd650 and the lcd2c has a different Sig but it has way better refinement low end is far superior in every way. Mids started to open up via brain burn in. i never missed my hd650 since listening to my AFO. fyi my hd650 Is thrown somewhere .

 

[MusicalParadise]

I've owned my hd650 for 5 years i bought a Otl amp worth triple the price of my hd650 and i found it endgame for that long til this year ive purchased an eikon lcd2c hp2 aeon open flow cayin iha6 within 2 months. AFO is a far superior hd650 and the lcd2c has a different Sig but it has way better refinement low end is far superior in every way. Mids started to open up via brain burn in. i never missed my hd650 since listening to my AFO. fyi my hd650 Is thrown somewhere .

It really just depends on ones setup, sound preferences and experience. I can’t speak for others set ups only my own which is currently Schiit Ygg and Ragnorok. I own both the LCD-2C, HD650 among a few others. Both the LCD-2C and HD650 are different so get different uses. For vocals I reach for the HD650 for music that has low bass the LCD-2C is amazing. I think both the LCD-2C and HD650 best out the Aeon Open but I wasn’t a fan of the Aeons at all.

 

[wazzupi]

Only reason i kept and never bought a different set of cans was the vocals from my hd650s I used it exclusively for 5 years. I have yet to miss them the vocals from my AFO match them well enough but is superior in every way.

 

[thighmaster69]

I don't buy the compensation curve thing neither Tyll..

Actually if you read carefully Tyll conclusions on you link, you will see that it can't be done and finally that the compensation curve is not very relevant for him:
"The top plot is the averaged raw responses compensated by the Independent of Direction compensating curve that came with my measurement head. Over time I've come to look much more at the raw, uncompensated curves than the compensated plot, primarily because I know the ID (or DF or FF) compensation curves are not quite correct."

One of the assumption of Tyll is that good headphones should sound like good loudspeakers because music has been produced on loudspeakers. I don't feel the same way. I consider that headphone is now a reference in itself and engineers takes it into account. For example it's practically impossible to have the nearly perfect bass reproduction we can have nowadays with a well amped LCD2. You can buy the best speakers on earth and work hard your room but won't get a flat response down to 5hz with a THD below 0.1% at 100dB, and no resonance.
I don't even talk about a flat phase response (on the LCD2 again) that no speaker on earth is able deliver for electrical and acoustical reasons. For me phase inconsistencies on loudspeakers was one of the reason I stopped using them... So why take as a reference something less transparent.
And why bass sound so well and natural on the LCD2: because it's damn flat, so it has some grounds that a flat response is rather fine. Now one can argue that ear resonance are more in the upper range, but loudspeakers and headphones use the same canal...

Sorry to bring this up back up again, but this sounds like you have some basic knowledge and you've taken it to mean you have more knowledge than you have and in the process you've come up with this ignorant nonsense. If you define neutral to be "sounds like it would sound in real life" then I guarantee you a flat response is NOT neutral. Get that nonsense out of your head. For a headphone to measure flat uncompensated then it'd have to be tuned to have basically no treble. The peak in the lower treble is NOT an artifact that is a result of the headphone, it's an artifact as a result of the measuring device (in this case the HATS - and your own head, which is in a way a measuring device). In other words, the uncompensated curve is objectively wrong, which the compensation attempts to correct. Any response that's flat by the time it hits your middle ear, will sound like there's null where that peak should be, because that's not how your ears hear real life things.

You said "I consider that headphone is now a reference in itself and engineers takes it into account". What on earth does that mean? If you mean the engineers making the headphone, then yes they do take that into account - they know that you NEED that giant peak to get a flat sound. If you mean that recording engineers and every engineer along the chain takes that into account: No, they straight up don't. Why would they distort the sound for their master just for headphone users? You are aware that if they did that then it would sound wrong on speakers right? You'd end up doubling the gain on the treble in that section and that'd be a disaster.

It seems as if you've taken "compensation curve" to mean "the subjective curve that Tyll likes". The compensation curve is an objective correction. While you could argue that it's inaccurate, you cannot say that a measurement means anything without some form of compensation. It's as dumb as saying a 100 pound 6 foot man is fatter than a 20 pound newborn baby.

With that in mind, the LCD-2.2 is not neutral. It might fit your preferences and you perceive it as neutral, but most people perceive it to be dark, and the measurements back that up. If you don't want to believe that, then be my guest. If you want to believe the earth is flat, be my guest.

 

[ArtemMoshkovich]

They’re a side step in the sense they’re a completely different type of sound. They have superior bass texture to the HD650 but they don’t have the treble refinement and mid range, vocal detail and emotion of the HD650. They’re both equally as resolving, I give the edge in detail to the HD650. They’re good compliments to each other.

Really enjoying my 2Cs this is what the 2016 model should’ve been.

Pair it with the right chain and the 2C outshines the 650 in every way. I had the 650s and they are like the bums of the headphone world, boring and overrated. Yeah they are good for what they are but 2C is an upgrade over them.

Yeah, I've got to echo Panda's sentiment here. I provided more detail in my earlier comment, but I see no merit to the argument that the 650 are even approximately close to the level of the 2C. Running off of a powerful Amp/DAC like a Jotunheim, the 2C blow every aspect of the 650 out of the water.

2C are more resolving, detailed, punchier in bass and vocals, clearer on the mids and highs, slightly wider soundstage, and immensely more engaging. Regardless of source quality, be it low bitrate MP3 or full-resolution Tidal MQC, the 650 are fairly flat and inoffensive to all ears. Drive the 2C with a powerful amp and Tidal MQC and you hear a world previously locked away.

FWIW, I have yet to see a critical, credible resource or individual comment otherwise. Not saying that the opposing belief is inherently wrong, just voicing the opinion that, after a dozen hours of side-by-side testing, I see no merit for the low-fi 650 competing with the mid-to-hi-fi LCD-2C.

 

[MusicalParadise]

Yeah, I've got to echo Panda's sentiment here. I provided more detail in my earlier comment, but I see no merit to the argument that the 650 are even approximately close to the level of the 2C. Running off of a powerful Amp/DAC like a Jotunheim, the 2C blow every aspect of the 650 out of the water.

2C are more resolving, detailed, punchier in bass and vocals, clearer on the mids and highs, slightly wider soundstage, and immensely more engaging. Regardless of source quality, be it low bitrate MP3 or full-resolution Tidal MQC, the 650 are fairly flat and inoffensive to all ears. Drive the 2C with a powerful amp and Tidal MQC and you hear a world previously locked away.

FWIW, I have yet to see a critical, credible resource or individual comment otherwise. Not saying that the opposing belief is inherently wrong, just voicing the opinion that, after a dozen hours of side-by-side testing, I see no merit for the low-fi 650 competing with the mid-to-hi-fi LCD-2C.

What amp are you running both off? Edit - Just seen you’re running the Jot combo sorry but in my experience that’s no way a high end set up for the Sennheiser HD600 series not HD800 series I’m talking about high end amps and dacs here. Results may vary depending on gear but saying the 650 is low-fi is dramatic even for an non experienced ear. Got both both results results are clear to me on my set ups, results MAY vary on other set ups it depends They’re completely different something being phones so a silly comparison to begin with.

 

[433521]

Appreciate that I've been listening to 650s for many years. ...

My weakest link is amplification. I'm driving this stuff with a little Aune tube amp that I roll a Amperex and Gold Lion in. I have a Mjolnir 2 coming in Feb and have already received a set of Bugle Boys and the Westerns are arriving shortly. The Modi 2 Multi is already burned in waiting for it.

Yeah I hear that. Senns are rather dark but I didn't remember them as dark as the LCD 2c's.

I think you'll find a significant change in the sound. Frankly I think the Mjolnir is overdoing it, I have a Vali2 and my xc's sound fantastic, I can't imagine much better. You might consider a Magni3 for the extra power.

Have fun~

 

[Zoom25]

I noticed that Roon now has the dedicated 2C preset. Giving that a try now. Linear and 100% wet.

 

[wazzupi]

Its okay my eikons are practically lost in the mail and my lcd2c just broke it took an extra week to receive the questyle 600 it's a bad day.

 

[s2kPanda]

Its okay my eikons are practically most in the mail and my lcd2c just broke it took an extra week to receive the questyle 600 it's a bad day.

Did the driver just crap out randomly while listening or were you blasting music through it?

 

[wazzupi]

Did the driver just crap out randomly while listening or were you blasting music through it?

I was listening to music and it just stopped it wasn't even turned up to normal hearing volumes i tried 3 cables I was adjusting the opposite side I moved it up and down for a better fit and a few seconds later it went silent.