Originally Posted by visualguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
... I don't know how to explain it, but it's like the LCD-2 moves more air without it showing as increased SPL. It feels like having a woofer on your ear ... Maybe it's just the bass, but there's certainly some impact with these headphones that I don't feel with any of my other headphones.
I too have this experience of ¨woofer on your ear¨ sensation with the LCD-2 which I never have with any other headphones -- open or closed. And I can't explain it either -- as I am neither a bass-head nor do I listen louder with the LCD-2.
For many listeners, a headphone which has more bass (meaning real and measurable, not just perceived) will sound "louder" at some given SPL levels that ones with less bass, due to Fletcher-Munson, as described above.
Interesting thing with the LCD's, they are making me appreciate even more my ER4S's! I think it must be to do with both excel in quality over quantity. I had a couple of friends who are big into higher end hifi listen last night and both said how the LCD's make music sound real and do not try to add anything. I find the Ety's suitably amped to have the same qualities!
For many listeners, a headphone which has more bass (meaning real and measurable, not just perceived) will sound "louder" at some given SPL levels that ones with less bass, due to Fletcher-Munson, as described above.
In the other hand, with bass you can handle a higher spl mainly because of the compression of the ear and for psychoacoustic reasons.
Music intended to be listen loud requires a sufficient amount of bass.
I can see VG's point though; the LCD-2 has more bass quantity relative to the HD800, so it moves more air because low frequency sound waves are pressure waves as opposed to the longitudinal waves created by higher-frequency sounds. If I have the terminology right.
Well, here's what is happening... If you'll recall the measurements that Tyll made and published from Canjam last year, you'll notice that the low frequency square wave response plot of the LCD-2 looked more like a real square wave than any other headphone. Virtually all other 30Hz square wave measurements showed a diagonal tilt or slant to the horizontal portion of the waveform; LCD-2
Notice the slope of the horizontal part of the waveform in the LCD-2 plot. It's fairly close to a horizontal line, indicating that pressurization is maintained fairly well for that length of time. HD-800
With the HD-800, notice that the horizontal line has more of a diagonal slope to it, indicating that most of the initial pressure leaks out by the time the wave form transitions to the opposite polarity.
ED-10
Notice with the ED10 most of the pressure leaks out by about half way through the duty cycle. K701
Here with the K701 plot we see that most of the pressure has leaked away by the time 25% of the duty cycle has passed. In all cases, the rise times look reasonable, showing the driver is capable of responding quickly enough, but as time passes, pressure starts to leak away in increasing rapidity as we go through these headphones. The ability of the headphone system to maintain full pressure throughout the duty cycle of the waveform is an indication of its ability to deliver IMPACT with the sound you hear. How much do you feel the THWAK of the foot pedal on the drum kit? Better pressure means better THWAK.
Not necessarily true. Certain medications use of and withdrawal can cause tinnitus or a "ringing' in the ears. Which the effects of are sometimes reversible.
Kwkarth, just a question out of curiosity. Is there any relation between the height of the first peak and the "horizontalness" of the graph. Because the first peak seems to be getting higher as the horizontalness decreases.
Kwkarth, just a question out of curiosity. Is there any relation between the height of the first peak and the "horizontalness" of the graph. Because the first peak seems to be getting higher as the horizontalness decreases.
Great question! What you are astutely observing is what we call overshoot or ringing. The mass of the diaphragm causes it to keep moving after the electrical signal stops telling it to move.
In all cases, the rise times look reasonable, showing the driver is capable of responding quickly enough, but as time passes, pressure starts to leak away in increasing rapidity as we go through these headphones. The ability of the headphone system to maintain full pressure throughout the duty cycle of the waveform is an indication of its ability to deliver IMPACT with the sound you hear. How much do you feel the THWAK of the foot pedal on the drum kit? Better pressure means better THWAK.
The square waves are particularly indicative of being able to reproduce the THWAK on complex passages more than just producing the THWAK by itself, do you agree?
No you are reading the graph correctly. It could be that the S-logic ultrasone thing messed with the measurement on one of the dummy head ears, but given how careful Tyll is when doing the measurement, I doubt it.
Kwkarth - thanks for not just posting the graphs and assuming everyone understands such things, but for actually including an thoughtful and easy to follow explanation of what is at play. Though a long-time audiophile, I'm very right-brain focused, and tend to just glaze over at technical specs. I appreciate that you took the effort to explain the graphics in lay persons terms. It becomes a very effective illustration of the comparisons.
I think what we're seeing in the graph is an imbalance in the seal between ear and driver, left vs. right more than driver imbalance. Other plots would be more revealing of L/R channel imbalance due to driver differences. Regardless, yes, one side of the ED10s has greater bass impact than the other. Pretty embarrassing for what they cost.
The square waves are particularly indicative of being able to reproduce the THWAK on complex passages more than just producing the THWAK by itself, do you agree?
No you are reading the graph correctly. It could be that the S-logic ultrasone thing messed with the measurement on one of the dummy head ears, but given how careful Tyll is when doing the measurement, I doubt it.
Low frequency square wave plots can be indicators of many different things. Their implications are many and varied. S-Logic has nothing to do with any of this.
Great question! What you are astutely observing is what we call overshoot or ringing. The mass of the diaphragm causes it to keep moving after the electrical signal stops telling it to move.
Kwkarth - thanks for not just posting the graphs and assuming everyone understands such things, but for actually including an thoughtful and easy to follow explanation of what is at play. Though a long-time audiophile, I'm very right-brain focused, and tend to just glaze over at technical specs. I appreciate that you took the effort to explain the graphics in lay persons terms. It becomes a very effective illustration of the comparisons.
X2, great post and follow up. Add the HE-6 and K1000 and you have my exact long-term collection (will be selling HD540, HD600, AD2K and re-acquiring the HD800, unless an HD850 gets announced while I am procrastinating lol. Sometimes I think I could sell everything else though, as I could easily live with my high-powered "budget" rig and my HE-6/k1000. But I would definitely miss the LCD-2/WA22 the most. I digress...) Thanks again for the lesson!
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